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Old June 14, 2014, 06:03 PM   #1
jpeschken
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Beginner Help - Lee Autodisk

This is my first attempt at reloading. I have set up my shiny new Lee press with Autodisk powder measure. I am trying to make sure I understand how to get the correct charge. I am loading .38 Specials here with 158 grain lead. I have Win231 powder. The Lee data book says a starting load for this is 3.1 grains, 0.29cc, Disk .27. Trouble is, the disks only go down to .30. However .30 would still be well within the maximum load, right?

On the bottom of the autodisk instruction sheet, there is another table. The instructions for that talk about a VMD number. For this powder, it is 0.0931. I am supposed to multiply this by the cc ,0.30 in my case and I get 0.29792. No idea what I should do with this, but I THINK it has to do with stacking more than one disk for large loads, which I am not doing. Can I just ignore this?

So, reducing all of this so my brain can comprehend, what I am left with is pretty much: The load data says you want .27cc or a bit more as a load, so just set the disk up for .30 and go for it! Too simple?

But then, that seems like a very small amount of powder when I look at the volume of the hole in the Autodisk. I would think a .38 special wouldn't be the tiniest load possible. Can that be correct? I'm nervous about this ... first time playing with explosives.


Thanks for your advice.

- John

Last edited by jpeschken; June 14, 2014 at 06:10 PM.
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Old June 14, 2014, 06:21 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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VMD times desired charge gives you the volume you need. Volume is the number on the disks.

For small charges, you need the adjustable charge bar.

Disk 30 is close enough to 29. You're not going to get the exact number they give you anyway. You'll have to try the disk, see what you get and adjust.
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Old June 14, 2014, 06:26 PM   #3
hodaka
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I like Autodisks and use several of them on Dillon 550 tool heads. Lee's chart is only a guide to charge weight (and not a very good one). You need a scale to check the weights. The .30 disk will probably be fine but my guess is that it will throw a bit less than the chart indicates. Get a scale, even a cheap Lee one will work.
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Old June 14, 2014, 07:04 PM   #4
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I use the Autodisk and like it a lot. A word of warning, as you get down to the smaller loads consistency becomes an issue. Win231 actually dispenses pretty consistent but at that small of a load there will be variances.

I don't reload 38 Special and I don't have access to load data for that caliber but I do reload 380 with Win231 and the load data for that is about .3 cc. It doesn't seem like enough for a cartridge like 38 special.
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Old June 14, 2014, 07:05 PM   #5
bt380
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I use the adjustable charge bar. Much easier.
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Powder and static seem to go hand in hand in my area. I wash my plastic hopper in soapy water and let dry without rinsing. Same for the funnel to put the powder back in the jug.
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I squirt a shot of graphic dust on a napkin and rub the top an bottom of the adjustable charge bar to help it ride.
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Keep the hopper at least 1/2 full so the powder compaction vs grains stays the same. I use a baffle as well that is plastic so it also gets the soap treatment.
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If you find your primers are falling out, add a couple washers so it will be raised up a tad and that should resolve the problem.
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I have to add about 10 extra primers so the weight keeps the last few primers feeding correctly.
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Old June 15, 2014, 09:20 AM   #6
Elkins45
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Quote:
You're not going to get the exact number they give you anyway. You'll have to try the disk, see what you get and adjust.
I have found this to always be true. They disks never throw exactly what the formula predicts, and in my case they always throw less. I have the same experience with the manual dippers.
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Old June 15, 2014, 11:34 AM   #7
bt380
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You stated: " The Lee data book says a starting load for this is 3.1 grains, 0.29cc, Disk .27. Trouble is, the disks only go down to .30. However .30 would still be well within the maximum load, right?"
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If I poured powder into a container and used a credit card to top it off I would have "X" volume of powder. Now I tap that container and now need to add more powder to top it off. My volume of powder changed.
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Answering your question is not something I can do over the forum because we all pour powder a bit different and could come up with different volumes.
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Buy some $10-$15 scale and caliper standards off ebay to keep your scales and calipers honest. I always verify my scales/calipers prior to use with a standard prior to each use.
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With honest scales, test weigh the amount of powder that pours out of them to see if the amounts are not what you want.
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If you have the Lee Perfect Scale, it will test your patients over time. I have a Hornady digital and Hornady beam scale. Both are accurate and fast to use.
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Expect the OAL seating to vary. On either the Lee Turret or Hornady LNL AP I average +/- .002 to occasional +/- .003. Lyman 49th says you can stretch that out to +/- .005 but that is too sloppy for me and I would not do that near max loads nor under start loads. I never go to max loads, there is no need for it for the plinkers. My loads seem to settle some where near mid loads for accuracy (I do not hunt or shoot competition, I plink). Hunters may need max, but they would have to speak to that.
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If you use a Lee FCD, never go past one full turn. Take an exacto and score the top of both your seater (if Lee) and fcd from center to edge so you can tell haw far you have turned the knob. Most taper crimps seem to be around 1/2 turn or a tad more for me. Crimp a few NO powder/primer and pull the bullet to make sure you aren't grooving the bullet. You can pull a factory round and examine the bullet for an idea. To get rid of that live primer, start your lawn mower and rev the engine and fire it off if you live in the burbs. Some folks don't crimp on certain rounds, but that is another discussion.
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Old June 15, 2014, 11:10 PM   #8
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Welcome to the forum and to loading. Thanks for asking our advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeschken

This is my first attempt at reloading. I have set up my shiny new Lee press with Autodisk powder measure. I am trying to make sure I understand how to get the correct charge. I am loading .38 Specials here with 158 grain lead. I have Win231 powder. The Lee data book says a starting load for this is 3.1 grains, 0.29cc, Disk .27. Trouble is, the disks only go down to .30. However .30 would still be well within the maximum load, right?
I pay no attention to the disks, markings or the table of VMD. I pick a disk (OK, I do make an initial choice of disk and cavity based on Lee's volume suggestions.) I drop a charge and weigh it. (You DO have and use a scale, right?).

If all published load data was based on volume, you would use volume quite easily. Since almost all load data is published in grains, I confirm Auto-Disk load drops by weight and choose which disk and cavity to use.

That's how I do it. I imagine Richard and John Lee would not agree, but that's how I do it.

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Old June 16, 2014, 12:20 AM   #9
Jim243
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Quote:
However .30 would still be well within the maximum load, right?
Yes that is correct.

Quote:
No idea what I should do with this,
It is used to determine which disk opening to use, if you wanted to load 3.5 grains of W-231 you would multiply 3.5 X 0.0931 = 0.33 to get that information. But since there is no .33 opening in the disks you would need to use .34 opening to get close to 3.5 grains charge.

Quote:
so just set the disk up for .30 and go for it! Too simple?
Yep, why make life more complicated?

Quote:
I would think a .38 special wouldn't be the tiniest load possible
Actually, it isn't the tiniest, using the adjustable charge bar which Brian suggested, you could get even a smaller charge of powder, not saying you should but you could.

I use 4.7 grains of Win-231 for my 38 specials (125 grain bullet). But I use the adjustable charge bar for dialing in the charge on a Auto Disk powder measure, you would need to use the opening of .46 on your disk, yes I know it says 4.9 grains on the chart, but the disks very seldom if ever give the exact throw as the chart states.

Jim
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Old June 16, 2014, 08:08 AM   #10
jpeschken
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Thanks for the help!

Thanks for all of your help, everyone. You have confirmed that I am more or less on the right track and given me lots of good suggestions. Since no one I know personally reloads, it's a little hair raising to strike out on your own with explosive materials and not have someone to tell you that you are on the right track.

I do have a digital scale. My Lee kit came with a balance type scale, but I read so many recommendations to go digital in this forum I did that right away since they don't cost much. I also have a caliper, so I can measure pretty much anything.

I'm still a little surprised at how little powder there is in a .38 Special, but I imagine it's a larger case because it began life as a black powder cartridge. I guess it might also explain why it's a relatively slow but heavy bullet compared to say a 9mm 115 grain, at least according to the specs I've seen.

The way I figure it, I'm going to end up with a slightly hotter cartridge than a starting load but nowhere near maximum with what I plan to do. That seems about right for target loads, which is really all I plan to run.

Now if only I could find appropriate powder for this cartridge in the stores. I lucked into a pound from a salesman who calls where I work, but have yet to see anything I can use in stores. The way I figure it, I should be able to load the spent casings I have been saving and some more with this pound, but after that I'm S.O.L. I guess it's the same everywhere since Midway, Brownell's, and everyplace else I have tried is out of stock (usually you can't even back order) on pretty much everything in pistol powders. I guess I picked a bad year to start reloading. This too shall pass.

Thanks again for the help.
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Old June 16, 2014, 08:18 AM   #11
5whiskey
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Others have given good advice referencing the autodisk. It's a useful tool for loading handgun rounds in bulk on a turret press, but I have found that there are some powders that the autodisk just doesn't like to meter accurately. Win231 should meter pretty well in it, though. For your situation and what you described... sounds like you're on the right track.

Quote:
My Lee kit came with a balance type scale, but I read so many recommendations to go digital in this forum I did that right away since they don't cost much.
I like the beam scale, but maybe that's just me. I have a digital as a backup, but I've found that I've faster at measuring charges using the beam scale.
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Old June 16, 2014, 08:39 AM   #12
jpeschken
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Powders

It seems logical that different powders would meter through the Lee dispenser somewhat differently just based on the shape of the grains. So, we check with a scale to be sure we're getting what we think we are getting.

What's your method for using the scale? My current thinking is to weigh the round before and after the powder dispenser and see what the difference is, at least until I am satisfied the dispenser is doing what I want. Do you weigh every round you make?
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Old June 16, 2014, 10:16 AM   #13
Jim243
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Quote:
Do you weigh every round you make?
For precision rifle rounds "Yes", for pistol rounds "No". I weigh the first 3 to 5 then every 20th round just to make sure it is still dropping the set charge.

When the powder gets down to about half way in the hopper of the powder measure you need to check since the weight of powder above is much less and may be throwing lighter charges due to the weight change. I put 2 auto body washers on top of the powder just to insure there is enough weight to give a consistent drop of the powder each time.

Good luck and stay safe.
Jim
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Old June 16, 2014, 10:39 AM   #14
Gadawg88
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You need to weigh just the powder, not the round before and after adding powder if that is what you mean. Ther is too much variation from case to case to get an accurate read on the powder weight. Till you get real comfortable that it is dropping what you want, weigh each charge. After that, I randomly weigh maybe three or four out of fifty or so.
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Old June 16, 2014, 10:54 AM   #15
ghbucky01
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What I want to know is...

Quote:
I have Win231 powder.
Where in the heck did you find Winchester powder?!

I thought that stuff was mythical anymore. Haven't even seen anyone accepting backorders on it.

Yes, this is me being jealous.
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Old June 16, 2014, 10:59 AM   #16
jpeschken
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Win 231

Pure dumb luck. Got it from a guy I work with who no longer had a use for it. I have not seen anything in the stores or on-line appropriate for .38 Special, and I have been watching for months.

New pistol ammo seems to be in the stores again if still high priced, so I imagine manufacturers are gobbling it all up for now.
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Old June 16, 2014, 11:11 AM   #17
jpeschken
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Of course. GADAWG88 is correct. Weighing the powder by itself would be the only way. Especially given that I have a mixed collection of used cases by various manufacturers. How silly of me.
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Old June 16, 2014, 12:02 PM   #18
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Whatever you end up using, heed the advice and use a scale to check your powder drops. I am happy with +/- 5%. Some folks demand better consistency. There are actually folks on this board who think they can load with three decimal point accuracy. Your mileage may vary. What is the purpose of your reloads ... bullseye competition, punching paper, home defense hand gun practice, ... ?
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Old June 16, 2014, 01:09 PM   #19
jpeschken
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Purpose

I just like to go to the range with my son and poke holes in targets. These rounds will be my range ammo. I have no interest in pushing the limits, just a safe reliable round. Besides the fun, my other purpose is to keep familiar with my home defense and my carry pistols. Those have factory made +p and magnum rounds in them as they sit in the safe. I shoot the self defense rounds now and then at the range, but not enough to inspire me to get involved with reloading those. On the other hand, going to the range every few weeks and shooting a couple hundred adds up to a lot of empties. With revolvers, it's easy to save the brass. My primary motivations are to reduce the cost of my range shooting and take up what seems like it will be an interesting retirement hobby.
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Old June 16, 2014, 09:49 PM   #20
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Can't get much better for what you are doing than Win231/HP38.
Level your scale and zero it. Then, without moving it, set your desired powder weight on the poise. Throw your charge into the case, then dump it into the scale pan. It should zero out again. Pour it back into the case and set the bullet.
The Pro Auto Disk is so consistent it is almost boring with 231/HP38.
I moved mine over to my LnL AP and it works just as well there.

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Old June 17, 2014, 10:17 AM   #21
jpeschken
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Autodisk Pro

I see an upgrade to the Pro version of the Autodisk in my near future, but I think I will give the standard version a chance this first time. The upgrade is pretty cheap, so I wonder why they just don't go with that. If it costs me $20 Lee's cost must be < $10.

Nice setup. I wish I had the space for a dedicated bench.
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Old June 17, 2014, 10:42 PM   #22
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Just punching paper ... I do same and chose Alliant Unique powder with 158 grain Lead Semi Wad Cutter bullets. I picked Alliant Unique because it was available, the web site has data for 158 grain LSWC loads

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...26&bulletid=30

and it fills the case better (I am less likely to get a double charge by accident that I might get with a finer powder ... such as Bullseye).

I started low and worked up. As usual I like the mid range load best. Typical advice is start 10% low and work up slowly.

Different strokes for different folks. I only use two different powders for my hand guns ... Unique and 2400 both Alliant. The 2400 I use for my magnum handguns and carbines. I like this simply because even an old poker like me cannot confuse the two powders by looking at them. They serve my purpose well. Some folks don't like them and that is okay. You will find what works for you and again good luck and good shooting.
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Old June 18, 2014, 10:07 AM   #23
Mike Irwin
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"For small charges, you need the adjustable charge bar."

No.

In my extensive experience with the Autodisk and the adjustable charge bar, for whatever reason it gives very inconsistent results with most powders below about 5 to 6 grains.

Charges less than, for me and others who have reported similar problems here over the years, would start to show unacceptable weight variations.

Order the proper disk.
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Old June 18, 2014, 10:16 AM   #24
jpeschken
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Upgrade

I have ordered the Pro Upgrade for the Autodisk. It just seems like the right tool for the low volumes I'll be working with loading 38 Special's 99% of the time.

I also ordered the extender widget to raise the hopper. It's currently a sort of Rubik's cube problem to keep it out of the way of the die adjustments and the primer feeder right now.
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Old June 18, 2014, 10:22 AM   #25
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Irwin
Order the proper disk.
There is no proper disk. Lee only makes disks down to 0.30, at least that I've ever been able to find. Any charge requiring less than 0.30cc requires the charge bar. I can't speak to how well it works, but it's the only option short of making/modifying your own.

Some folks have reported good results with small charges by modifying the charge bar as shown here.

It's also possible to modify the disks. Some folks fill in a hole with epoxy and redrill it to the size they want.
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