Self-Defense Shooting is NOT Bullseye Shooting

[Double Naught Spy]

It is frightening how often police and military personnel miss their target in shootouts.

Police and military often engage their targets at greater distances than your typical CCW SD or HD situation. You can find plenty of videos of normal people involved in shootings that miss plenty as well, especially as distance increases.

[Deaf Smith]

Actually for police the main reason they miss alot (well some do but some don't!) is they tend to be ambushed. Cop killers don't wait for the cop to draw, nor do they warn them they are going to try to take their lives.

Of course there are exceptions. Some cops just loose it and spray 100 rounds or so and hit a few bystanders (or hostages as in NY.) Others are quite accurate.

The military tend to, on the other hand, ambush others! But their antagonist also have lots of automatic weapons as well as RPGs and mortars. That tends to force the military to expend ammo to keep the other side down while they maneuver (like flanking) or generate fire superiority.

Deaf

[FireForged]

yep I agree..

[Cowboy_mo]

I used to obsess over shooting bullseyes. Then I took my ccw class taught by a gentleman who specialized in self defense shooting. Now, as long as I can draw and double tap an 81/2 x 11 sheet of paper quickly, I am smiling big. In fact, the ccw instructor pointed out that my double tap producing one large ragged hole wasn't as effective a deterrent to a bad guy as 2 nice holes 4 to 5 inches apart.

One of the reasons many LEO's aren't more proficient is because many small departments only alot them 100 rounds per year for practice (unless they buy their own ammo to practice with).

Shooting well is a diminishing skill, if you don't practice, you don't retain your skill level.

[Deaf Smith]

Actually the majority of LEO's simply don't care about shooting. They came for the badge, prestige, uniform, and civil service benefits.

To them qualification with their guns is a hassle and bore.

Deaf

[SgtLumpy]

Deaf Smith blabs:
Actually the majority of LEO's simply don't care about shooting. They came for the badge, prestige, uniform, and civil service benefits.

Your continued display of your disdain for LEOs got really old quite some time ago. Dispite your lack of knowledge on the subject, and your public hate, those LEOs will continue to embrace the "prestige" of being willing to lay down their lives for you.

How about a little mature and responsible dialog on these topics instead of turning every one into the "Here's why Deaf Smith hates cops" showcase?


Sgt Lumpy

[MLeake]

SgtLumpy,

A lot of my friends are LEO.

While Deaf may (or may not) dislike cops, I do not.

That said, among the cops I know, Deaf mostly isn't wrong about their enthusiasm for shooting.

In my experience, more rural cops / deputy sheriffs are shooting hobbyists than not, while more city cops are not shooting hobbyists than are.

Also, in my experience, the more gun control an area has, the less likely its cops are to be shooting enthusiasts. Of course there are exceptions, but those are trends I've noted.

My cop friends and acquaintances who are NOT shooting enthusiasts tend to look at things this way:

1) People interaction skills are used much more often, and can head off trouble;

2) Hand to hand, mace, and Taser are much more likely to actually be employed than are guns;

3) The department only provides the minimum ammo required for training and recurrent qual, and they are already working security gigs at night or overtime for the department to make ends meet.

My cop friends and acquaintances who ARE shooting enthusiasts generally tend to come from military backgrounds, or were country boys growing up; some of them go for SWAT / ESU or equivalent, one was HRT, a couple were training officers.

Generally speaking (and again there are exceptions), I can outshoot most of the cops I know - but not the HRT guy (by a long stretch), and only on a PAR with the former Customs raid guy.

[pax]

I think this one's run its course, now that we're debating cop motivations instead of discussing the original topic.

Closed.

pax