Lead Bullets vs Plated

Anth · January 7, 2016, 05:14 AM

I'm a fairly new reloader and I'm interested in opinions on whether there are any ill effects of using LRN bullets in match grade barrels. Particularly in my Kimber 1911 Gold Match firearm.

mehavey · January 7, 2016, 06:20 AM

Presupposing a properly-sized bullet, no ill effects at all.

Jimro · January 7, 2016, 07:36 AM

No issues. Ensure the bullets are correctly sized, use a powder with lots of cast bullet data for your 45 like like Bullseye, and you'll have a very economic match load.

Jimro

AzShooter · January 7, 2016, 07:50 AM

Lead bullets will work fine.

A new alternative is coated bullets. They come in many colors. Use the same data as cast lead. I use them to determine different loads I'm using.

Look at Bayou Bullets.com to see what I'm talking about.

Real Gun · January 7, 2016, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Use the same data as cast lead.

re coated, you might want to qualify HARD cast lead, since coated bullets can typically be hard cast and pushed much faster without barrel fouling than common lead loads. I don't believe coating offers a lot to soft lead shot at modest velocities except that it replaces the need for lube.

I should say though that the rule seems to be shoot soft lead slow or hard lead fast, else you will get leading. So, use of coating on hard cast lead would be a way to shoot them at slower velocities without leading.

Mike / Tx · January 7, 2016, 07:43 PM

Quote:

re coated, you might want to qualify HARD cast lead, since coated bullets can typically be hard cast and pushed much faster without barrel fouling than common lead loads. I don't believe coating offers a lot to soft lead shot at modest velocities except that it replaces the need for lube.

I figure anything over a 14 BHN is hard for my uses.

I am shooting home coated cast bullets which run at most a 12 BHN up in the 1300 and above range depending on which revolver I am using. I can easily run a 160gr cast and coated or plain lubed HP at 1300+ out of my GP-100's, or the MP 412640 lite which runs 180grs either coated or not out of my 41 magnum at just over 1600fps with no issues what so ever.

The alloy calculator I used to blend this alloy up says it should only be around 10.7 BHN, but it does get a touch harder with age.

So to the OP, I would say choose your bullet from a reputable dealer like Bayou, or Missouri and give them a try. I doubt seriously that if your running standard loads you will find anything that is detrimental to your barrel.

My standard loads for my Colt Govt. 1911 use around 5grs of Bullseye or just a bit over that of Unique depending on the bullet weights. They usually run in the mid 700's to mid to upper 800 FPS range. The biggest thing I have encountered is my pistol failing to chamber due to accumulated lube and powder fouling form shooting tumble lubed bullets. Between the Alox and the lite loads of Bullseye eventually things gum up and you have to stop and clean it up. But that is not the barrel as much as the chamber and slide from powder residue.

With coated it is real easy to run several hundred rounds though it with no issues what so ever. The downside for me is, once I go through my coated bullets then I have to coat some more. It takes time and patients to do up a goodly batch of them. Nothing extra hard or anything just tumbling them, picking them out and setting them up to bake. All extra steps that simply running them through a lubesizer, or shaking up a batch in a bag of thinned Alox doesn't need.

stubbicatt · January 8, 2016, 06:07 AM

In a 45 ACP softer alloys will shoot adequately.

springer99 · January 8, 2016, 08:21 AM

Cast or coated bullets will be fine for your 45ACP: I shoot 10 times those as I do jacketed. Be aware that bullet size is the key when using cast bullets. 45 velocities are slow enough that you don't need a hard-cast bullet. 8-12 brinnell should work fine. Don't go overboard with hardness, if they're not the right size, hardcast will still lead.

Real Gun · January 8, 2016, 10:44 AM

Quote:

So to the OP, I would say choose your bullet from a reputable dealer like Bayou, or Missouri and give them a try. I doubt seriously that if your running standard loads you will find anything that is detrimental to your barrel.

As long as they're coated or soft or both. Hard cast run at modest velocities will lead. I had to resize Lasercast and run them faster. I had to go to coated from Missouri.

mikld · January 8, 2016, 01:31 PM

Don't let the thread drift get you sidetracked. Yes, shooting lead bullets in your premium handgun is perfectly OK. May be much less wear on your barrel too. I'd suggest a Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook (3rd Edition if you can find one) for good basic info on lead bullet casting. lubing, sizing, and shooting.

Folks will toss around BHN as the deciding factor to eliminate leading but in reality BHN isn't as important as some might think. The single most important fact to shooting leading free bullets is fit. Lead bullets need to be larger than groove diameter.

"Hard Cast" is a relatively new term. Lead bullets were made two ways; casting and swaging. Newer casters believed "harder is better" and soon started calling all cast bullets, regardless of BHN, "hard cast" (I haven't ever heard of an official designation of "hard" for lead bullets. 10 BHN? 14.5 BHN? 20 BHN?). Commercial casters picked up on this trend/fad and started selling cast bullets of 18+ BHN and new casters believed them and now purchase "hard cast". Any hardness of bullet will lead a barrel if it's too small and a hard bullet is more likely to lead if too small than a softer bullet that will obtruate.

I have personally driven cast rifle bullets (plain based, air cooled, WW alloy equivalent) to over 2000 fps and 1400+ fps in a .357 Mag., with no leading. The deciding factor is they fit the gun...

TimSr · January 8, 2016, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Cast or coated bullets will be fine for your 45ACP: I shoot 10 times those as I do jacketed. Be aware that bullet size is the key when using cast bullets. 45 velocities are slow enough that you don't need a hard-cast bullet. 8-12 brinnell should work fine. Don't go overboard with hardness, if they're not the right size, hardcast will still lead.

Well said. Good fit and a hardness rating that matches velocity.

Real Gun · January 8, 2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Don't let the thread drift get you sidetracked. Yes, shooting lead bullets in your premium handgun is perfectly OK.

Except that you can't change my experience with Lasercast and my 625JM. Those bullets are advertised as "hard cast", so don't try to now tell me the term is wrong, stated as a strawman.

I worked the lead bullet issue from every angle and gave up on the gun before coated became common. I got some improvements with uncoated lead but never escaped several frustrating minutes of barrel cleaning, using all the tricks for scrubbing lead from a barrel. What I never focused on was whether the bullets were too hard. I always loaded a robust load with 200 gr SWC.

I went on to buy the 625 PC, hoping it would be better with different rifling. I now realize I need to use softer bullets or coated. I have a good supply of FMJ ammo as well. I no longer buy any S&W with ECM rifling but might reconsider if softer bullets show improvement in the leading.

pete2 · January 8, 2016, 11:26 PM

Most Bullseye shooters use cast SWC bullets in their .45s. Even match guns that cost a lot of money, Easier on the bbl than jacketed bullets.

expendable · January 10, 2016, 08:12 AM

Real Gun,

When trying to get cast bullets to perform well in revolvers you may need to address the cylinder throat and forcing cone.

Its not just about the fit to the barrel or the hardness of the bullet.

Slamfire · January 10, 2016, 08:49 AM

I doubt you will ever wear your barrel out shooting lead bullets. I don't know if anyone has ever shot a 45 ACP barrel out with jacketed. I will have to ask the next time I shoot with the All Guard team. The frames and slides may wear out first.

noylj · January 10, 2016, 10:04 AM

A lead bullet, being so much softer than steel, is not going to harm a barrel. It could lead, but wrapping some strands from an all-copper Chore Boy around a cleaning brush will quickly eliminate all leading.
As a new reloader, I suggest reading about lead bullets first and get started with good quality JACKETED bullets. Forget the plated, as they have their own problems. Start with the best and easiest bullets to reload--real jacketed.
Go to Roze Distribution or Powder Valley for Zero bullets, or Precision Delta, or Montana Gold and get high quality jacketed bullets for less than Hornady, Winchester, Remington, Speer and such.
Do a Google search on "plated bullet tumbling," "plated bullet keyholing," "plated bullet shedding jacket," or "plated bullet crimp damage."

Real Gun · January 10, 2016, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Real Gun,

When trying to get cast bullets to perform well in revolvers you may need to address the cylinder throat and forcing cone.

Yes, thanks. All the throats and forcing cones have been optimized. No joy.

pete2 · January 12, 2016, 02:37 PM

I shoot cast bullets in 6 different 1911 guns and a 625 revolver, sized to .452, they work fine, even had some at .453, work fine and very accurate.

Real Gun · January 12, 2016, 06:49 PM

Quote:

I shoot cast bullets in 6 different 1911 guns and a 625 revolver, sized to .452, they work fine, even had some at .453, work fine and very accurate.

Yeah, must be me, huh? What do I know?

shootniron · January 12, 2016, 07:34 PM

Quote:

With coated it is real easy to run several hundred rounds though it with no issues what so ever. The downside for me is, once I go through my coated bullets then I have to coat some more. It takes time and patients to do up a goodly batch of them. Nothing extra hard or anything just tumbling them, picking them out and setting them up to bake. All extra steps that simply running them through a lubesizer, or shaking up a batch in a bag of thinned Alox doesn't need.
_

Not necessary to set them on their base. Just put them in a collender, shake the excess powder off, DUMP them onto a pan and bake them. Wasting time setting them on their base to bake them...not necessary as they will cook fine in any position. I have coated thousands in this manner and never had a single problem...and it is QUICK.

pete2 · January 14, 2016, 12:07 PM

Real Gun,
I didn't say it was you, it is probably your guns. I've had revolvers that wouldn't shoot anything, nada, nothing. 2 in particular had oversize chambers. Neither was accurate no matter what. Best not assume anything.

Real Gun · January 14, 2016, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Real Gun,
I didn't say it was you, it is probably your guns. I've had revolvers that wouldn't shoot anything, nada, nothing. 2 in particular had oversize chambers. Neither was accurate no matter what. Best not assume anything.

When someone reports a problem, I don't see it as useful for someone to jump in and post that they have no problem...no context, no specifics, no empathy, no suggestions, I suppose just the implication that their nonsense meter is in the red. I guess it's one of those "how nice for you" things.

kerreckt · January 14, 2016, 05:17 PM

90% of what I shoot are bullets that I cast. About every handgun size except .25,.32,.41Rem.Mag(no longer). Including 9mm Mak. No problems at all and excellent accuracy when properly sized. A correctly sized and properly lubed bullet and there will be no leading or gas cutting. For higher velocities .357 and 10mm, I use a harder 14-16 BHN alloy or coated. Highest velocity and that's the last 10%, which are plated and jacketed. Best wishes

bfoosh006 · January 14, 2016, 06:22 PM

Lead bullets will make your barrel last a LOT longer then jacketed.

That said... Coated Lead bullets limit fouling and drastically cut back on burnt lead smoke from firing.

I strongly suggest you use Coated Lead Bullets.... far more pleasant to shoot, and , frankly, better for you.

Breathing lead "smoke" is an avoidable situation. So why Not.

ammo.crafter · January 21, 2016, 01:32 PM

Research BHN vis-a-vis velocity for your answer.

January 7, 2016, 05:14 AM	#1
Anth Junior Member Join Date: March 31, 2015 Posts: 7	Lead Bullets vs Plated I'm a fairly new reloader and I'm interested in opinions on whether there are any ill effects of using LRN bullets in match grade barrels. Particularly in my Kimber 1911 Gold Match firearm.

January 7, 2016, 07:36 AM	#3
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	No issues. Ensure the bullets are correctly sized, use a powder with lots of cast bullet data for your 45 like like Bullseye, and you'll have a very economic match load. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

January 8, 2016, 01:31 PM	#10
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Don't let the thread drift get you sidetracked. Yes, shooting lead bullets in your premium handgun is perfectly OK. May be much less wear on your barrel too. I'd suggest a Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook (3rd Edition if you can find one) for good basic info on lead bullet casting. lubing, sizing, and shooting. Folks will toss around BHN as the deciding factor to eliminate leading but in reality BHN isn't as important as some might think. The single most important fact to shooting leading free bullets is fit. Lead bullets need to be larger than groove diameter. "Hard Cast" is a relatively new term. Lead bullets were made two ways; casting and swaging. Newer casters believed "harder is better" and soon started calling all cast bullets, regardless of BHN, "hard cast" (I haven't ever heard of an official designation of "hard" for lead bullets. 10 BHN? 14.5 BHN? 20 BHN?). Commercial casters picked up on this trend/fad and started selling cast bullets of 18+ BHN and new casters believed them and now purchase "hard cast". Any hardness of bullet will lead a barrel if it's too small and a hard bullet is more likely to lead if too small than a softer bullet that will obtruate. I have personally driven cast rifle bullets (plain based, air cooled, WW alloy equivalent) to over 2000 fps and 1400+ fps in a .357 Mag., with no leading. The deciding factor is they fit the gun... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

January 10, 2016, 08:49 AM	#15
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I doubt you will ever wear your barrel out shooting lead bullets. I don't know if anyone has ever shot a 45 ACP barrel out with jacketed. I will have to ask the next time I shoot with the All Guard team. The frames and slides may wear out first. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

January 21, 2016, 01:32 PM	#25
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,972	leading Research BHN vis-a-vis velocity for your answer. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

January 7, 2016, 06:20 AM	#2
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,917	Presupposing a properly-sized bullet, no ill effects at all.

January 7, 2016, 07:50 AM	#4
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	Lead bullets will work fine. A new alternative is coated bullets. They come in many colors. Use the same data as cast lead. I use them to determine different loads I'm using. Look at Bayou Bullets.com to see what I'm talking about.

January 8, 2016, 06:07 AM	#7
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	In a 45 ACP softer alloys will shoot adequately.

January 8, 2016, 08:21 AM	#8
springer99 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Posts: 355	Cast or coated bullets will be fine for your 45ACP: I shoot 10 times those as I do jacketed. Be aware that bullet size is the key when using cast bullets. 45 velocities are slow enough that you don't need a hard-cast bullet. 8-12 brinnell should work fine. Don't go overboard with hardness, if they're not the right size, hardcast will still lead.

January 8, 2016, 11:26 PM	#13
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Most Bullseye shooters use cast SWC bullets in their .45s. Even match guns that cost a lot of money, Easier on the bbl than jacketed bullets.

January 10, 2016, 08:12 AM	#14
expendable Member Join Date: September 18, 2009 Posts: 44	Real Gun, When trying to get cast bullets to perform well in revolvers you may need to address the cylinder throat and forcing cone. Its not just about the fit to the barrel or the hardness of the bullet.

January 10, 2016, 10:04 AM	#16
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 860	A lead bullet, being so much softer than steel, is not going to harm a barrel. It could lead, but wrapping some strands from an all-copper Chore Boy around a cleaning brush will quickly eliminate all leading. As a new reloader, I suggest reading about lead bullets first and get started with good quality JACKETED bullets. Forget the plated, as they have their own problems. Start with the best and easiest bullets to reload--real jacketed. Go to Roze Distribution or Powder Valley for Zero bullets, or Precision Delta, or Montana Gold and get high quality jacketed bullets for less than Hornady, Winchester, Remington, Speer and such. Do a Google search on "plated bullet tumbling," "plated bullet keyholing," "plated bullet shedding jacket," or "plated bullet crimp damage."

January 12, 2016, 02:37 PM	#18
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I shoot cast bullets in 6 different 1911 guns and a 625 revolver, sized to .452, they work fine, even had some at .453, work fine and very accurate.

January 14, 2016, 12:07 PM	#21
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Real Gun, I didn't say it was you, it is probably your guns. I've had revolvers that wouldn't shoot anything, nada, nothing. 2 in particular had oversize chambers. Neither was accurate no matter what. Best not assume anything.

January 14, 2016, 05:17 PM	#23
kerreckt Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2011 Location: SE VA. Posts: 216	90% of what I shoot are bullets that I cast. About every handgun size except .25,.32,.41Rem.Mag(no longer). Including 9mm Mak. No problems at all and excellent accuracy when properly sized. A correctly sized and properly lubed bullet and there will be no leading or gas cutting. For higher velocities .357 and 10mm, I use a harder 14-16 BHN alloy or coated. Highest velocity and that's the last 10%, which are plated and jacketed. Best wishes

January 14, 2016, 06:22 PM	#24
bfoosh006 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 1,089	Lead bullets will make your barrel last a LOT longer then jacketed. That said... Coated Lead bullets limit fouling and drastically cut back on burnt lead smoke from firing. I strongly suggest you use Coated Lead Bullets.... far more pleasant to shoot, and , frankly, better for you. Breathing lead "smoke" is an avoidable situation. So why Not.