Rem. VTR or Win. 70 SS, BOSS

bakercity · January 14, 2014, 01:07 PM

Scenario: (please give no regard to caliber)
I am purchasing 1 new rifle. The choices are a REMINGTON 700 VTR or a WINCHESTER 70 STAINLESS with BOSS.
What would your choice be and why? (remember, give no regard to caliber)

Thanks for your input!

ndking1126 · January 14, 2014, 01:43 PM

I'd go with the Winchester 70. From what I've read they get good reviews. The VTR just doesn't make much sense to me. The triangular barrel seems to be more marketing than functional. It didn't get a great review from snipercentral.com, which is one place I like for reviews.

I like stainless rifles, too. I don't know how well the BOSS works for improving accuracy, but if nothing else it should help with recoil, so that's always nice.

I wouldn't choose either personally, but I'll play by your rules!

precision_shooter · January 14, 2014, 02:10 PM

Agree with ndking, I wouldn't choose either if it was me. Better rifles to be bad for the same or less money, but of the 2 it would be the Winchester. I won't buy a Remlin...

jmr40 · January 14, 2014, 05:02 PM

I'd buy the Winchester and have the BOSS cut off personally.

If it has the BOSS system it is one of the older New Haven rifles. Probably the best of the Winchesters. Not the collectable status of SOME of the Pre-64's but getting there. I have 3 of the SS Classics and feel they are probably the best designed gun ever made. Some of the later guns made between 2000 -2006 when quality started slipping may need minor tweaking, but are worth the effort

Magnum Wheel Man · January 14, 2014, 05:20 PM

I've not heard good things about repeatable accuracy with the triangle barrel Remingtons... I do like the looks though...

I like my BOSS's on my Brownings, so between the 2 I'm also on the side of the Winchester

FiveInADime · January 14, 2014, 06:01 PM

This is no contest, if you ask me. The VTR is the laughing stock of Remington's output across the generations. That stainless model 70 is a wonderful gun with a tuneable muzzlebreak on the end of the barrel. If you don't like it, cut it off like someone else said.

Mystro · January 14, 2014, 07:53 PM

Absolutly.....Winchester all the way but get rid of the ear splitting Boss.

Bart B. · January 15, 2014, 12:10 PM

I don't know if Remington's VTR barrel is any stiffer or heat dissapating than a round one of the same weight and length. They claim the triangular barrel contour is a product of years of rigorous research and development focused on reducing weight, enhancing rigidity and promoting rapid heat dissipation. But none of that's proved to make a barrel shoot more accurate.

I think its the same snake-oil medicine marketing hype of the late 1800's Winchester does these days with their Model 70's fluted barrels claiming they're stiffer than a solid one of the same outside profile. Balderdash!!!!!

roc1 · January 16, 2014, 07:22 AM

I love my VTR in 223 shoots great the new model 70 I owned was a beautiful rifle in 30-06 but was the hardest kicking rifle I ever owned. It couldn't be tamed I reloaded light rounds but to no avail. Remington's low recoil works good but to expensive and hard to find. I would like another in a smaller caliber. I have owned a few 06 but none of them kicked anything like that Winchester.
Roc1

taylorce1 · January 16, 2014, 11:04 AM

Quote:

I'd buy the Winchester and have the BOSS cut off personally.

Me too!

rdavidsonjr · January 26, 2014, 08:31 PM

I'm a new member here so hello everyone, so I thought I would share a little info from my personal experience. I am gradually changing out to stainless due to durability and ease of up keep. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and lets face it if your in the woods or on the mountain for a week away from your home. weather can really take its toll in a week or 2 on bluing. I own guns with stainless bergera fluted barrells , bull barrels, and Winchester 7 mm and a 300 with a boss.Contrary to some things I have seen on the boss it is not a choke or counter weight.It is a micro adjustment that allows you to shorten or lengthen the barrel by less than thousanths to match the timing of the precise exit of the bullet from the barrel of any specific load.All barrels no matter what vibrate due to physical forces of concussion.The harmonic vibration returns the barrel to a neutral plane many times during a shot. The timing is consistent and dependent on the laws of physics.The short and sweet of it is it works if you are the perfectly steady shooter without any flinch. I have seen 1 1/2" to 2" groups adjusted down to dime size. It allows you to match barrel to load instead of load to the barrel, more economical and accurate. My bull and fluted barrels are great but they will not out shoot the boss.

FiveInADime · January 28, 2014, 11:18 AM

I'm not challenging the value of having the BOSS but it seems if it worked exactly as it should in theory, there would be one on every match rifle and every accuracy testing barrel out there. The negative to having it on there is the excessive noise and muzzle blast. If I got one on a rifle I was only going to hunt with I would keep it on there. If I planned on shooting it much off of a bench I would cut it off.

Magnum Wheel Man · January 28, 2014, 11:54 AM

this seems like a good place to talk about "the noise"...

having a compensator on the end of the barrel DOES NOT NECESSARILY MAKE THE GUN LOUDER... if the barrel is shorter, the length of the comp, or more, it can be noticeably louder, but not really much more than the shorter barrel in the 1st place, if designed poorly the sound can be directed towards the shooter making it seem louder... how the ports are angled makes a huge difference... I have a retired tool & die buddy that has made me several, & by angling the ports away from the shooter, the shooter is not exposed to extra noise...

my 2 B.O.S.S.'s are on belted magnums ( 338 win mag, & 375 H&H ) & I don't notice much more noise than I'd expect from a belted magnum, but both are long barrels already... I have hunted with both... & yes it's painful, but IMO, not much more so than the same calibers / barrel lengths with out one

that said, IMO, silencers that reduce the noise enough to prevent hearing loss, aught to be legal to use when hunting... they can be designed to be quiet enough to help prevent hearing loss, while still being loud enough to discourage poaching ( which is likely the resistance to allowing their use )

rdavidsonjr · January 28, 2014, 06:19 PM

I have a 300 and 7 mm Winchester model 70. I do notice that there is more report from each gun due to the boss being ported on an angle towards the shooter. However the 7 mm due to it's sharp crack is worse than painful. I have had other 7 mags that did not leave you deaf and ears ringing for days from a shot hunting. There for I replaced the muzzle break with the Conventional Recoil cover.Otherwise I advise hunting in electronic hearing protection. With that said to all that do not believe the boss works I am one of four hunting friends with 7 - boss rifles between us. We all hunt places with long range potential and we have all have seen positive results at the range that it works otherwise we would not spend the extra money for the boss.Also it might interest some that several government agencies that have snipers are using either the boss or other manufactures that have the same concept. I am not necessarily talking about military sniper work in the field. It does work but so does hand loading till you match your load to your barrel. It is a matter of preference

Bart B. · January 29, 2014, 06:03 PM

If a barrel's "neutral plane" means when it's straight, that's the worst place for bullets to exit. The muzzle axis angle's changing at the greatest angular rate at that time. There'll be a greater spread in the actual angle bullets leave at due to muzzle velocity spread and barrel time from case mouth to out the muzzle. Maximum vertical shot stringing happens when bullets leave in the area when the barrel's straight.

http://www.varmintal.com/amode.htm

http://www.varmintal.com/alite.htm

rdavidsonjr · January 29, 2014, 10:36 PM

The neutral plane is a term browning uses. Neutral plane, perfect place, point where the barrels pauses, above the axis at 90 deg. . It all a fruitless debate. I don't engineer guns or barrels I shoot them and the boss works for some chores I ask a gun to do. That is all I need to know!

January 14, 2014, 01:07 PM	#1
bakercity Junior Member Join Date: September 24, 2013 Posts: 6	Rem. VTR or Win. 70 SS, BOSS Scenario: (please give no regard to caliber) I am purchasing 1 new rifle. The choices are a REMINGTON 700 VTR or a WINCHESTER 70 STAINLESS with BOSS. What would your choice be and why? (remember, give no regard to caliber) Thanks for your input!

January 14, 2014, 02:10 PM	#3
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	Agree with ndking, I wouldn't choose either if it was me. Better rifles to be bad for the same or less money, but of the 2 it would be the Winchester. I won't buy a Remlin... __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

January 14, 2014, 05:20 PM	#5
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I've not heard good things about repeatable accuracy with the triangle barrel Remingtons... I do like the looks though... I like my BOSS's on my Brownings, so between the 2 I'm also on the side of the Winchester __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 14, 2014, 07:53 PM	#7
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	Absolutly.....Winchester all the way but get rid of the ear splitting Boss. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

January 26, 2014, 08:31 PM	#11
rdavidsonjr Member Join Date: January 26, 2014 Posts: 76	boss I'm a new member here so hello everyone, so I thought I would share a little info from my personal experience. I am gradually changing out to stainless due to durability and ease of up keep. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and lets face it if your in the woods or on the mountain for a week away from your home. weather can really take its toll in a week or 2 on bluing. I own guns with stainless bergera fluted barrells , bull barrels, and Winchester 7 mm and a 300 with a boss.Contrary to some things I have seen on the boss it is not a choke or counter weight.It is a micro adjustment that allows you to shorten or lengthen the barrel by less than thousanths to match the timing of the precise exit of the bullet from the barrel of any specific load.All barrels no matter what vibrate due to physical forces of concussion.The harmonic vibration returns the barrel to a neutral plane many times during a shot. The timing is consistent and dependent on the laws of physics.The short and sweet of it is it works if you are the perfectly steady shooter without any flinch. I have seen 1 1/2" to 2" groups adjusted down to dime size. It allows you to match barrel to load instead of load to the barrel, more economical and accurate. My bull and fluted barrels are great but they will not out shoot the boss. Last edited by rdavidsonjr; January 26, 2014 at 09:56 PM.

January 14, 2014, 01:43 PM	#2
ndking1126 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2008 Location: Madison, AL Posts: 1,932	I'd go with the Winchester 70. From what I've read they get good reviews. The VTR just doesn't make much sense to me. The triangular barrel seems to be more marketing than functional. It didn't get a great review from snipercentral.com, which is one place I like for reviews. I like stainless rifles, too. I don't know how well the BOSS works for improving accuracy, but if nothing else it should help with recoil, so that's always nice. I wouldn't choose either personally, but I'll play by your rules!

January 14, 2014, 05:02 PM	#4
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	I'd buy the Winchester and have the BOSS cut off personally. If it has the BOSS system it is one of the older New Haven rifles. Probably the best of the Winchesters. Not the collectable status of SOME of the Pre-64's but getting there. I have 3 of the SS Classics and feel they are probably the best designed gun ever made. Some of the later guns made between 2000 -2006 when quality started slipping may need minor tweaking, but are worth the effort

January 14, 2014, 06:01 PM	#6
FiveInADime Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2012 Posts: 607	This is no contest, if you ask me. The VTR is the laughing stock of Remington's output across the generations. That stainless model 70 is a wonderful gun with a tuneable muzzlebreak on the end of the barrel. If you don't like it, cut it off like someone else said.

January 15, 2014, 12:10 PM	#8
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	I don't know if Remington's VTR barrel is any stiffer or heat dissapating than a round one of the same weight and length. They claim the triangular barrel contour is a product of years of rigorous research and development focused on reducing weight, enhancing rigidity and promoting rapid heat dissipation. But none of that's proved to make a barrel shoot more accurate. I think its the same snake-oil medicine marketing hype of the late 1800's Winchester does these days with their Model 70's fluted barrels claiming they're stiffer than a solid one of the same outside profile. Balderdash!!!!!

January 16, 2014, 07:22 AM	#9
roc1 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2005 Location: Lubbock Texas Posts: 560	I love my VTR in 223 shoots great the new model 70 I owned was a beautiful rifle in 30-06 but was the hardest kicking rifle I ever owned. It couldn't be tamed I reloaded light rounds but to no avail. Remington's low recoil works good but to expensive and hard to find. I would like another in a smaller caliber. I have owned a few 06 but none of them kicked anything like that Winchester. Roc1

January 28, 2014, 11:18 AM	#12
FiveInADime Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2012 Posts: 607	I'm not challenging the value of having the BOSS but it seems if it worked exactly as it should in theory, there would be one on every match rifle and every accuracy testing barrel out there. The negative to having it on there is the excessive noise and muzzle blast. If I got one on a rifle I was only going to hunt with I would keep it on there. If I planned on shooting it much off of a bench I would cut it off.

January 28, 2014, 11:54 AM	#13
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	this seems like a good place to talk about "the noise"... having a compensator on the end of the barrel DOES NOT NECESSARILY MAKE THE GUN LOUDER... if the barrel is shorter, the length of the comp, or more, it can be noticeably louder, but not really much more than the shorter barrel in the 1st place, if designed poorly the sound can be directed towards the shooter making it seem louder... how the ports are angled makes a huge difference... I have a retired tool & die buddy that has made me several, & by angling the ports away from the shooter, the shooter is not exposed to extra noise... my 2 B.O.S.S.'s are on belted magnums ( 338 win mag, & 375 H&H ) & I don't notice much more noise than I'd expect from a belted magnum, but both are long barrels already... I have hunted with both... & yes it's painful, but IMO, not much more so than the same calibers / barrel lengths with out one that said, IMO, silencers that reduce the noise enough to prevent hearing loss, aught to be legal to use when hunting... they can be designed to be quiet enough to help prevent hearing loss, while still being loud enough to discourage poaching ( which is likely the resistance to allowing their use ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 28, 2014, 06:19 PM	#14
rdavidsonjr Member Join Date: January 26, 2014 Posts: 76	Boss I have a 300 and 7 mm Winchester model 70. I do notice that there is more report from each gun due to the boss being ported on an angle towards the shooter. However the 7 mm due to it's sharp crack is worse than painful. I have had other 7 mags that did not leave you deaf and ears ringing for days from a shot hunting. There for I replaced the muzzle break with the Conventional Recoil cover.Otherwise I advise hunting in electronic hearing protection. With that said to all that do not believe the boss works I am one of four hunting friends with 7 - boss rifles between us. We all hunt places with long range potential and we have all have seen positive results at the range that it works otherwise we would not spend the extra money for the boss.Also it might interest some that several government agencies that have snipers are using either the boss or other manufactures that have the same concept. I am not necessarily talking about military sniper work in the field. It does work but so does hand loading till you match your load to your barrel. It is a matter of preference

January 29, 2014, 06:03 PM	#15
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	If a barrel's "neutral plane" means when it's straight, that's the worst place for bullets to exit. The muzzle axis angle's changing at the greatest angular rate at that time. There'll be a greater spread in the actual angle bullets leave at due to muzzle velocity spread and barrel time from case mouth to out the muzzle. Maximum vertical shot stringing happens when bullets leave in the area when the barrel's straight. http://www.varmintal.com/amode.htm http://www.varmintal.com/alite.htm

January 29, 2014, 10:36 PM	#16
rdavidsonjr Member Join Date: January 26, 2014 Posts: 76	boss The neutral plane is a term browning uses. Neutral plane, perfect place, point where the barrels pauses, above the axis at 90 deg. . It all a fruitless debate. I don't engineer guns or barrels I shoot them and the boss works for some chores I ask a gun to do. That is all I need to know!