AR-15 .223 for pronghorn

[Freethought]

69 grain hpbt Matchking , 65 grain sbt Gameking ,77 and 80 grain HPBT Matchking , Berger in 70 ,75 , 80 and 90 grain VLD target ( all of which work fine on hogs) and bt 73 and 82 grain longrange. 64 grain Nosler Bonded ( I've had extremely good results on hogs with these) 60 grain Nosler partition ( the old reliable) I'm not big on Hornaday's AMax for larger game but 75 and 80 grain Amax's..........Barnes.........the TSX in both 62 and 70 grain has worked exceptionally well for me personally......

These are without even going into the smaller manufacturers , a lot more slug selection at the .224 level than there used to be.

[HiBC]

I will stay out of the .223 argument,other than to say it will require some self discipline.
Can you let a 325 yd pronghorn walk away,or stalk closer?
Many of my pronghorn have been inside 200 yds.I'm sure a .223 would work.
I have seen the heart and vitality of wounded antelope.Trust me on this,you do not want to.(And,FWIW,47 years ago a wounded antelope got away from me.I remember.That was the last one)

A problem with pronghorn is that they are easy to see,and hard to not shoot at.

I understand splattering way too much edible meat .I used to use a 7mm Rem Mag.I switched to a .257 AI. Much better.

But I will tell you this.The last deer I took,I used a 30-338.(.338 Win necked down)
The deer just dropped vertically in his tracks at about 250 yds.
I hit him with a 200 grain Accu-Bond,which is a fairly tough bullet. MV about 2900.It was a through the ribs boiler room shot,a touch high,but below spine.
Very little meat loss.My .257 would have been worse.

I do not know all the .31 bullets available,but I suspect if you find something over 180 gr constructed to be adequate for elk,etc your meat damage will be minimal.

[Dufus]

Ok, I agree that all those listed are hunky dory, but when loading for a 1:14 rifle, what are you gonna use?

There used to be 50-55 grain bullets such as the Nosler partition, but they ain't making them any more. Prolly shot 10 to 12 whitetails with the 50 grainers back in the old days and they weren't varmint bullets like they are now.

[603Country]

Dufus, For that twist I'd recommend that you try the Sierra 63 gr SMP. Shoots good in my 220 with that twist. I think it's the shortest of the choices and therefore the most likely to work for you. Works pretty good on mid sized pigs. Never tried it on a deer.

[FrankenMauser]

Ok, I agree that all those listed are hunky dory, but when loading for a 1:14 rifle, what are you gonna use?

A few that I would consider:
Barnes 45 gr TSX
Barnes 50 gr TSX FB
Barnes 50 gr TTSX
Barnes 53 gr TSX FB
Nosler 60 gr Partition (previously mentioned - and what I would try to find first)

[HiBC]

For Dufus: The post was about the AR.I don't think the AR was ever made in a 1 in 14 twist. It was 1 in 12 in the early days.That changed with 62 gr bullets

One day someone told me he had a Rem XP-100 bolt handgun that would not hit a mattress at 100 yds.I said "Hmmm.....I'd like to look at it"

It had been rechambered from 221 Fireball to .223.Now,221 Fireball DID come with a 1 in 14.The owner was shooting 55 gr white box ammo,and it was keyholing.
I fiddled with a few accuracy details,then loaded up some 52 gr Matchkings.

I'm not a great shot,and I know the scope was not over 4x.I put it on a bag at 200 yds.I fired 10. It cut a "Y" shaped group,all holes connected,about 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 in tall and 5/8 wide.
I gave it back to him with some remaining ammo,the target,and recipe for the load.
But my caution,this progress with bullets and hunting bigger game is not so true if you have a 1 in 14 twist that limits you to varmint weight bullets.
He could shoot flat base 52's,but not 55 boat tails.
Before you invest in copper bullets,realize they are longer than the same weight lead bullet.
It will not help to go to a lighter copper bullet if the bullet is the same length.

[603Country]

That flat base 63 gr Sierra is shorter than the 60 gr Partition, the 64 gr Nosler BSB, and the 65 gr Sierra GK, and is the only one of that list to stabilize in my 220.

[BumbleBug]

Originally Posted by 603Country

That flat base 63 gr Sierra is shorter than the 60 gr Partition, the 64 gr Nosler BSB, and the 65 gr Sierra GK, and is the only one of that list to stabilize in my 220.

My results are the same as 603Country with the 63gr Semi-pointed Sierra. My .22-250 pretty much keyholed other heavy bullets but the 63gr was very accurate. I've shot several deer with this bullet out of a .223 but was not impressed even though venison ended up on the table.

FWIW

[Art Eatman]

I have a 1:14 upper for my AR. It's a dedicated varmint/prairie dog barrel. I'd use my original 1:10 upper for any deer hunting, with heavier bullets.

If all I had was a 1:14 rifle in .223, I would not consider it for deer hunting. There are way too many inexpensive alternatives.

[Dufus]

The post was about the AR.

The post was about using 0.224" bullets on pronghorn. I gave my experiences with that diameter bullet. So, I don't believe that I hijacked the OP.

Dufus, For that twist I'd recommend that you try the Sierra 63 gr SMP. Shoots good in my 220 with that twist

Only difference is that your 220 will shoot the bullet 400 fps faster than the 222 can do. Makes a hell of a difference when stabilizing a marginal bullet. So, the 63 gr is out of the question.

All in all, I settled on a Cutting Edge Bullet that I can get avg of 3508 fps with an SD of 8 and it is supper accurate.

If I was in the OPs position, then make sure that his rifle can stabilize no less than 60 gr bullets. I would try the partition, but they are not known for accuracy, and they shouldn't because they are a hunting bullet not a varmint or target bullet.

There are also some damn good bonded bullets available as well that would peak my interests for his caliber.

[Fla_dogman]

I've hunted with a .223 for many years and killed several deer and hogs. It is on the light side but if you keep your shots accurate and under 150 yds I feel comfortable the .223 will do a good job. I shoot Winchester 64gr PP exclusively for everything from coyotes to deer.
A lot of the argument comes from shot placement and that is true because I've seen deer lost due to poor shot placement from buckshot to 3006's and the 223 is no exception. The down side is there is usually no blood trail with all smaller caliber bullets but the trade off is less meat damage.

[rickyrick]

Do your job and shoot with discipline. Make sure that you have a good cold bore zero with your chosen bullet. There are a number of appropriate bullets out there now.

[603Country]

Dufus, the 63 gr Sierra is shorter than the 60 gr Partition, at .755 inches. Per the JBM site, stability is marginal in a 223 with a 1 in 14 twist at 3000 fps, but it also shows the bullet as marginal in my 220. But it shoots great in my 220. Right or wrong, that is a bullet I'd try in a 223 with a slow twist. That said, in a short barrel AR, the OP probably can't get to 3000 fps.

If the OP doesn't want to try the 63 gr SMP, I'll suggest the 55 gr Sierra GK. I've got that one loaded for pig blasting with my 220, but haven't found a pig yet when I had that rifle, so the test phase hasn't happened yet.

If I had a slow twist 223, I'd get another barrel in a faster twist. If a fellow is going to hunt game with a 223, he should have a twist that'll stabilize the 60 gr Partition or the Nosler 64 gr BSB. If I ever rebarrel my 220 Swift again, I'll go for a faster twist.

[Guv]

My old (early 80's) slow twist 110E Savage shoots 64gr Winchester PP very well. I have some pretty old boxes of that stuff.

[samsmix]

I shot the deer and it just stood there for 10 seconds, then fell over

^^^ That. That right there is why I quit using it on big game. If it was all I had then a-hunting I would go, but there are better choices.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by samsmix

^^^ That. That right there is why I quit using it on big game. If it was all I had then a-hunting I would go, but there are better choices.

Except I've seen the EXACT same thing happen with a whitetail deer shot with a 12ga slug.

It was the hunters first deer. He was flabbergasted.... Less than 40 yards, BOOM! Deer just stood there. Hunter is looking at it through the scope. Could see blood dripping. Deer looked around for a few seconds, walked 10 or 15 yards, stood THERE for a few seconds, layed down calmly, looked around for a few seconds, tipped it's head back to lick the wound and slowly rolled it's head back against it's body, dead. It was a perfect, broadside, double lung shot.

If we stopped using everything that didn't result in BANG, FLOP!, we'd stop using everything smaller than a 105mm rifled cannon.

[MJFlores]

I'm not a fan of smaller bullets on big game, but the Sierra 65 grain Gameking is very tempting in my AR. Very accurate and wow do they penetrate my wood back stop made of logs. If I was going to do it, I'd use that bullet and H322 powder.

[samsmix]

Brian Pfleuger,

I don't doubt your claim one bit. I think with an '06 or even a .243 the results would have been more dramatic.

In my experience, YES deer and antelope CAN be hit with larger rounds and not go BOOM! FLOP! But it in my experience the .223 fails at this instant anchoring drastically more often than (I'll just say it) PROPER big game cartridges. I have killed with the .223, but DRT was the exception, not the norm with heart and lung hits, sometimes multiple such hits.

If it was all I had, I WOULD use it. If I had a better option, I would take it.

For me. Your mileage may vary.

[Guv]

I would think a deer shot at 40 yards with a 12Ga slug reacting as described above is the exception and not the norm. But I have had just as many go down right there as I have had to trail after a well placed 270, 308, 30-06. They don't seem to read the same rule book.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Guv

I would think a deer shot at 40 yards with a 12Ga slug reacting as described above is the exception and not the norm. But I have had just as many go down right there as I have had to trail after a well placed 270, 308, 30-06. They don't seem to read the same rule book.

Trouble is, every individual instance is it's own exception.

There's a slightly incorrect saying that nonetheless gets the correct point across... "Anecdote is not the singular of data."

I've seen untold dozens of deer shot with everything from compound bows to .243Win, 7-08, 270Win, 30-06, .300mag, 20ga, 12ga and some I'm sure I've forgotten. The only thing I predict ahead of time now is that there's no predicting the reaction ahead of time.

I've watched full sized adults drop like they got hit by lightning when a 55gr .243 hit them and then seen 75lb button bucks take a 300gr muzzleloader bullet through the lungs that literally blew the opposite side leg off except for a flap of skin and they run 75 yards. Of course, I've seen full sized adults drop like they got hit by lightning when that same 300gr ML bullet hit them too, so....

Anyhow, point being, "I have seen..." is over-rated. Unless "I have seen..." enough of each example to eliminate the untold, nearly infinite, variables that make it so unpredictable, it's really quite meaningless.

Now, all that being said, to me the answer to the OP's dilemna is obvious.... namely, you're clearly loading your own "31-06" ammo... so load something more appropriate for pronghorn and try to put that bullet a little BEHIND the shoulder, where there's less/no meat.

[Guv]

The only rule is , All Rules Are Subject To Change.

[samsmix]

Now, all that being said, to me the answer to the OP's dilemna is obvious.... namely, you're clearly loading your own "31-06" ammo... so load something more appropriate for pronghorn and try to put that bullet a little BEHIND the shoulder, where there's less/no meat.

I will certainly agree on that.

Like you, I have seen literally hundreds...idk how many, but I'll ball park it at about 400 deer and antelope buy the farm. I've seen a whitetail doe hit through the lungs with a 7 Mag/150gr run a mile and require a follow-up (total failure to expand), and seen a lot of other instances of amazing resilience. I have shot deer with 12ga, .357, 9mm, .44spl, .44mag, .50BP, .223, .257 Bob, .270, '06, 7mm Mag, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R...I may have missed some. I've witnessed deer shot with everything from the .22 WMR to the .375 H&H.

In all of this, I cannot but agree with you that each instance is unique. That said, over the long haul, while there were exceptions, the trend has been towards the reinforcement of the conventional wisdom about proper cartridge selection.

I still respect your opinion, and would still use a .223 if it was all I had, but I think the quoted advice at the top of this post is as solid as it comes, and that would be my top choice as well.

[Jack O'Conner]

Winchester's 64 grain soft tip is a good one for taking deer sized animals. I've taken a lot of antelope and my average shot is about 275 yards. At this distance the .223 is less than ideal for hunting. It does its best work at 150 yards or less.

Jack

[kcub]

I will stay out of the .223 argument,other than to say it will require some self discipline.

I've found staying out of any argument requires self discipline.

[tahunua001]

I grew up in eastern MT, most of what we ate was pronghorn, just because they were plentiful and our indian friends loved to hunt year round but didn't like how tough antelope meat is(so we were gifted a lot of them). antelope are tricky buggers, they run extremely fast, are extremely skiddish compared to deer and if you make the wrong move or put a round in the wrong place they can run a long ways just on adrenaline. on the other hand they do not have a lot of meat to begin with, any amount of overkill will spoil a large amount of the meat that you can harvest, especially when it comes to backstraps and front quarters. personally I would go with either a heavy bullet going slow, or a light bullet going fast. given pronghorns love of open prairies, probably the light and fast option would work best so you're probably looking at either a 223 or a 243 using lighter end bullets (heavier end meaning 80 grains or more). just be careful to put the round where it is supposed to go the first time, if you need a followup... you probably won't get it.