Any Bad Reactions to Wood Grips?

[Cosmodragoon]

A lot of the exotic hardwoods used for grips contain oils that can not only be allergenic but can actually sensitize you if you weren't allergic before. This has been a major issue for people involved in woodworking, due to impregnated sawdust and tiny airborne oil droplets. Of course, those incidents dominate searches for reactions to exotic woods. Your exposure to the oils in a wood will always be much higher while working it. Some people who get sensitized while working these woods report later having problems just handling it.

Where I didn't have much luck is looking for reactions to the product alone. For instance, has anyone had a problem from using or handling grips/stocks made from exotic hardwoods? I've read maybe two accounts of reactions developing from EDC where a wood is up against skin or in hot climates where sweat is abundant. I think it was cocobolo in both cases. That didn't surprise me since cocobolo seemed to be the most notorious offender in what I read on woodworking forums. It is supposedly the worst of the Dalbergia family, which contains other problem woods like Rosewood.

Since a surprising amount of common wood can cause reactions in the shop too, and I haven't seen much about finished products, I wanted to put this out here. Has anyone had a reaction just to stocks/grips? If so, what kind of wood caused it? What was it like?

[polyphemus]

I haven't seen much about finished products,

Do some digging 'round on "pitting under grips" it is commonly blamed on
poor passivation but the more likely cause is chemical reactions caused by
preservative agents and other products used to treat wood for industrial purposes,a dirty little secret,it is only apparent when the grip panels are removed,does not affect function and by the time it becomes a serious issue
it is not worth the bother.

[mete]

Working with the wood with sawdust and oils in the wood are far worse than contact allergies after it's made .In any case the simple rule is if it bothers you stay away from it !! Yes the tropical woods are more likely to bother you. But there are very nice woods that have little allergy problems. My favorite is hard maple ,beautiful figure , no allergy problem !
I just came back from a doctor visit .The chemicals in the office ,anti bacterials etc cause a reaction raising my blood pressure .What do they do when you go there ? take your blood pressure . They can't accept that the measurement is not valid because of that ! Their answer ? Drugs ! If I take measurements at home they won't accept them so we go round and round .
You can be allergic to anything and have any kind of reaction .That they don't seem to understand.

[Bill DeShivs]

While someone who is extraordinarily sensitive could have a reaction to grip woods, it's not likely. The hand has thicker skin than most body parts and is less subject to allergens. The grip surface will "passivate" (best word I can think of!) after a while. No new surface is being exposed, and oils will stop coming to the surface.
Handling finished wood is nothing like being exposed to sawdust, oil, and scents when working wood. I sneeze when working cocobolo.

[Cosmodragoon]

I don't expect a lot of stories from just holding or shooting, unless maybe someone is shooting heavy magnum loads and a rough spot on the grip is scratching up the skin. (If you've never had an allergy test, they actually dab you with potential allergens and then scratch the skin in those spots.) I suspect that if anyone has a story, it will have more to do with regularly carrying close to the body. Of course, nickel allergies are well-known and it wouldn't surprise me if some gun oils caused reactions after prolonged exposure.

What I really want is some data on the comparative allergenic/sensitizing contact strength of popular woods; but that data doesn't seem to exist. A good study would have large groups of people strapped with small untreated wood panels (and inert control materials) on the belly or thigh for a week or two to see what reactions develop. Since I have neither a lab nor a research grant, I figured I'd look for anecdotal evidence.

[TXAZ]

I did a quick google for wood allergies. There are a few papers, at least 1 from Australia on the subject. The caveat could be, between oils used in wood preparation, preservatives and lubricants used on the gun itself, there could be secondary irritants / allergens that are imbedded in the wood grain, giving a false positive.

Good luck.

[mete]

The scratch test is not worth much .
I have seen lists of woods that have sensitivity problems but I can't remember where. Individual differences are great and you can change especially if you start handling the woods often.You may also become allergic as you get older .
The easiest and best way is to deal with it is toavoid allergins !!!

[wogpotter]

Have never had any, nor heard of any.

[mete]

Google " wood toxicity " for a start ! This is the first on the list !!!!

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Tips...DS%20CHART.pdf

The term toxicity often iicludes allergy.

[44 AMP]

I would think that properly finished wood grips would be sealed so any contact between skin and the wood's natural oils would be insignificant.

Gun oil doesn't soak into grips through the gripping surface (which is finished), if it soaks into the grips at all, its through the back of grip panels, which is not, or not as well finished.

If oil can't get in through the parts we touch, oil in the wood isn't going to get out (to touch us), either.

Not a concern to me.

[CPO15]

I'm surprised nobody has acknowledged an allergic reaction yet.

I did have a reaction to the Wilson Combat star burst pattern Cocobolo grips. IWB with a Milt Sparks VM-II: grips against my skin in not particularly warm or humid conditions. A discoloration of the skin with a slightly rough texture but with no real rash inflammation or itching. Went away w/o medication in about a week or ten days. And Wilson exchanged the grips for walnut patterns.

I posted my issue on a Wilson forum, requesting suggestions for treating or sealing the grips as I wanted to keep them on my guns; all I got was sympathy and comments from others with the same issue. Frankly, I was surprised that whatever finish was applied by the maker didn't seal the wood more effectively.

I use Cocobola grips on my revolvers which are carried OWB, so no issues there. And I've not noticed any reaction in my hands when shooting Cocobolo.

[JohnKSa]

I would think that properly finished wood grips would be sealed so any contact between skin and the wood's natural oils would be insignificant.

That would be my guess too. There would be little or no contact between the actual wood and the person's hand due to the finish on the grips. It would take someone who was extraordinarily sensitive to show any reaction and that's without getting into a discussion of how they would have become that sensitive (what exposure would have created the sensitivity/allergy in the first place) without being woodworkers.

If I were a woodworker and specialized in woods known to be problematic, I would take precautions to avoid breathing/ingesting the dust or getting it into cuts, eyes, etc. AND, given my unavoidable exposure, I might choose to carry grips made from woods which aren't known for causing reactions. I might make the same grip choices if I were a person with a tendency to react strongly to a very wide range of substances that are normally considered a non-issue.

Otherwise I would never give it a second thought.

[wogpotter]

I have a friend who is a dedicated wood turner. He handles all sorts of exotic woods, both alone & in combination with other woods for decorative effect. He has never had a reaction either & his wood is unfinished, peeled & dusty.

[Cosmodragoon]

JohnKSa wrote:

If I were a woodworker and specialized in woods known to be problematic, I would take precautions to avoid breathing/ingesting the dust or getting it into cuts, eyes, etc. AND, given my unavoidable exposure, I might choose to carry grips made from woods which aren't known for causing reactions. I might make the same grip choices if I were a person with a tendency to react strongly to a very wide range of substances that are normally considered a non-issue.

That's where the big danger is. People working these woods can be heavily exposed and can develop allergies/sensitivities as a result. Basically, someone who is not sensitive can be become hypersensitive. Some of the stories in woodworking forums are horrifying, including trips to the ER.

An important note about sensitizers is that however you get exposed to them, they tend to sensitize you! Take CPO15's account, which is exactly what I was looking for:

CPO15 wrote:

I did have a reaction to the Wilson Combat star burst pattern Cocobolo grips. IWB with a Milt Sparks VM-II: grips against my skin in not particularly warm or humid conditions. A discoloration of the skin with a slightly rough texture but with no real rash inflammation or itching. Went away w/o medication in about a week or ten days. And Wilson exchanged the grips for walnut patterns.

This was a relatively mild reaction. As I said previously, I read at least two other accounts of this happening to non-woodworkers in extended contact with cocobolo, at least one of which was also from IWB. At least one of those reactions was worse, and I think it involved a full wood revolver grip. I'd be curious to know if this reaction was enough to make CPO15 more sensitive to it and related species of Dalbergia.

44 AMP wrote:

I would think that properly finished wood grips would be sealed so any contact between skin and the wood's natural oils would be insignificant.

An important issue here is that these problem woods are very oily. Coming from tropical environments with tons of bugs, critters, molds, etc., the trees developed these oils as a protective mechanism. Apparently, they work on a lot of us too! Being so oily, some of these woods either don't cooperate with various finishes or don't appear to need additional finishing. I may call around to the major manufacturers on Monday to see who does what.

[JohnKSa]

An important note about sensitizers is that however you get exposed to them, they tend to sensitize you!

Well, it is true that to become sensitized, you need to be exposed. However, the method of exposure is certainly relevant.

A person like CPO15 who (instead of having no previous exposure) had previously been exposed by inhaling wood dust would have been expected to have reacted much more strongly to skin contact than if his first exposure was skin contact. The skin is pretty protective vs the inside of the lungs.

Had that been the case, CPO15 might have reacted violently to the skin exposure after having already been sensitized by inhaling particles of the wood. He might have gotten a severe rash or perhaps even had a systemic reaction. As it was, he just had some skin discoloration without any itching, inflammation or discomfort.

[wogpotter]

I wonder how much effect the drying has on the oils & other carriers in the wood?

Wood for wood turners & grips is probably well dried/seasoned.

[BigJimP]

Besides guns as a hobby -- and I have exotic wood grips on a lot of my guns ( Cocobolo on all of my 1911's, some Gocalco Alves -and Black Walnut on some of my revolvers..- and I've never had a reaction to any of the grips. However, I'm also a WoodTurner and small Box maker...and I use a fair amount of exotic woods ( Cocobolo, Paduak, Purple Heart, etc - even Black Walnut )...

I think the reason I have no reaction to my gun grips ...is they are all sealed ( probably with a lacquer finish ).

...but I am susceptible to a reaction from the dust of a lot of these woods - especially Cocobolo or any of the rose wood family ( tulipwood, kingwood, etc ) - and black walnut or purple heart are real bad as well....as I'm sanding or working an item....a peppermill, a box, etc...)...--- good ventilation in my general shop area ( I have a Jet system that moves and scrubs about 1,000 Cubic Feet of Air per minute ) / and I have good 2 hp vacuum dust pickup system - that moves another 1,500 CFM of dust away from the point where I'm working or sanding the item ( my bandsaw, lathe, etc..)..../ and I wear a good dust mask whenever I'm working with these woods...even some domestic hardwoods like Cherry will bother me some days.....

The trick is to keep the shop clean - and while I can't wear long sleeves around equipment like the lathe especially ....it means keeping the dust off of my bare arms, my face, etc. the best I can ...frequently vacuuming up the residual dust in the area that the "main vacuum system" does not pick up .../ a little compressed air out of my compressor to clean off my smock and my arms works.../ and at the first sign of any red spots on my arms, etc...I will dump my clothes and shower...

If you're going to turn, cut or sand these kinds of woods, or any hardwoods for that matter.....good dust management ...is critical.

But I will also say ....that more and more I'm working with domestic hardwoods...than the exotics / but Black Walnut from Oregon ...has been as bad for me as Cocobolo...

DSCN0626.JPG --- stuff like this.... ( most of my photos are not small enough to fit on here...) but left to right ...mag glass is Bloodwood, letter opener is Cocobolo, pen is Birds Eye Maple, pen is TulipWood, Bloodwood, Cocobolo, and pencil is Kingwood...

I may buy blanks that are 2" X 2" X 36" ......and resaw on the bandsaw before I turn them....but even if I were buying "pen or peppermill" blanks from a woodworking store...they may be sealed with wax or something to keep them from cracking in storage.../ but you still have to work them and sand the finished product.

But even small bandsaw boxes that I make...for holding salt and pepper --- salt mills, pepper mills or pens, pencils, etc that I turn ..... I always seal them with a spray or wiping lacquer before I give them to anyone to use.

[OkieCruffler]

I developed an allergy to walnut that manifested itself while I was sanding a set of grips for a ruger 22. Sent me to the hospital for some epi. I had to sanitize my shop of all walnut after that (which hurt me deeply, it's been my favorite wood for years). But I still have several guns with walnut grips and most are not lacquered but finished with BLO. I've yet to have a reaction.

[Bill DeShivs]

Cocobolo, kingwood, rosewoods and similar woods are not sealed. They won't properly take an applied finish. Most are sanded and buffed.

[JohnKSa]

Cocobolo, kingwood, rosewoods and similar woods are not sealed. They won't properly take an applied finish.

Good info. That explains a lot.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

my retired builder buddy has quit working with walnut... just inletting a stock can keep him out of the shop for several weeks... I don't think he has any issues actually handling the wood, especially if it's sealed, I think it's more the dust & shavings that effects him...

I've never noticed a problem chain sawing & such, but I know I've gotten a few slivers & some woods more than others seem to fester up & get painful right away...

[Cosmodragoon]

Bill DeShivs wrote:

Cocobolo, kingwood, rosewoods and similar woods are not sealed. They won't properly take an applied finish. Most are sanded and buffed.

That's what I thought. Thanks for sharing that. I imagine that goes for the beautiful Tulipwood too, as it's a fellow member of the Dalbergia family. Outside that family, do you know if Pau Ferro and Goncalo Alves are treated the same way?

[mete]

I wonder if anyone has used 'stabilized' wood to make grips .Stabilized is often used on knife handles and usually it's made of acrylic .That goes into the wood , not just a coating .

[BigJimP]

Actually Lacquer works real well on all of the rose wood family of woods...I've used it for a long time.../ I wipe the piece with some acetone first to remove any dust or oil..and I let it evaporate for about 30 seconds ....then I spray a Deft Lacquer on the piece. I have also used a "woodturners finish" that is sold by Woodcraft and Rockler as well with success ...I don't know what is in it - but I suspect it is lacquer based.../ and in both cases I buff it with a soft cotton cloth at a moderate speed on the lathe...
------------------
From an internet woodfinishing site...:

" Finishing Oily Woods, March 27, 2011

This article was inspired by a question from Schuyler. He writes:

I put two coats of General Finishes Seal-a-Cell on a piece of cocobolo, then a coat of Arm-r-Seal Urethane top coat (gloss). Three days later, it?s still slightly tacky. Will this ever cure enough that I can continue applying coats of Arm-r-Seal? What gives?
------------
Many exotic species, like cocobolo, have a certain amount of natural-occurring oils in them. When you coat them with an oil-based finish, the oil in the wood itself prevents the finish from curing properly. The end result is typically a gooey sticky mess.

Prevention

Fortunately, we do have options. First, you can use an evaporative finish, such as shellac or lacquer. These finishes don’t cure via oxidation and will usually have no problem curing on an oily wood.........

[bandaid1]

When people talk about Allergies, many people don't realize that there is a difference between a true allergy (causing respiratory edema, systemic hives, and do to an organic nitrogenous compound involved in local immune responses as well as regulating physiological function IE Histamine response) and a hyper sensitivity to something IE contact dermatitis. Often times people think that because they have rhinitis and mucosal irritations to the dust from wood, that this means they are allergic to the wood. Well no, the wood dust contact dermatitis.

Can people be allergic to woods, wood sap, oils, or other wood finishes? Yep. Hell some woods are poisonous such as the sumac family Anacardiaceae. That being said, are most allergies to wooden pistol grips true allergies? Nope, at least that's been my experience.

Hooya