Maverick 88 PGO from the factory.

Nickel Plated · March 6, 2013, 04:43 PM

Just wanted to know if Mossberg offers the Maverick 88 as a PGO.
I'm really interested in making one of those non-NFA 14" shotguns for myself as a range toy, but the legality of the whole thing hangs on it never having had a stock attached to it. So simply swapping a pistol grip on the thing won't cut it (atleast not if someone decides to really look into the history of that particular gun)
So I need one that came as a PGO straight from the factory. However looking at Mossberg's site, the Mavericks seem to only be available with stocks.

BigD_in_FL · March 6, 2013, 05:07 PM

You can't. It will still be an AOW (Mossberg makes the PGO 500)and require a $5 tax stamp (registration)

And in Brooklyn ( where at?) I doubt it will become a reality during the current "stuff" happening

keenanred · March 6, 2013, 05:12 PM

can you put a stock on a moss 500 pistol grip, no it has never had a stock on it, and what is a pgo

BigD_in_FL · March 6, 2013, 05:16 PM

IF you put a stock on a PGO, then you can never go AOW on shortening the barrel.

PGO is "pistol grip only"

keenanred · March 6, 2013, 05:22 PM

ok so it is legal, thanks

Nickel Plated · March 6, 2013, 06:32 PM

Quote:

You can't. It will still be an AOW (Mossberg makes the PGO 500)and require a $5 tax stamp (registration)

And in Brooklyn ( where at?) I doubt it will become a reality during the current "stuff" happening

The PGO guns Mossberg makes are not AOWs.

Here's a quick run-down for those not familiar with this legal oddity.
If you have a shotgun that NEVER had a stock on it (ala Pistol-grip only) it is by legal definition not a "shotgun". Since it is not shoulder-fired.
Thus it can not be classified as a short barreled shotgun, since it was never a shotgun to begin with.
It also can not be classified as an AOW as long as the overall length stays over 26". The prerequisite to be an AOW is it must be concealable (which the ATF defines as under 26")

So if you have a shotgun that is PGO from the factory you can cut the barrel down as short as you want, as long a you keep the whole thing over 26" and never attach a stock to it. It will simply be classified as a "firearm" Just like a stripped AR lower.
With a Mossberg 500, if you install one of those birdshead grips on it you can cut the barrel down to 14.5" (flush with the mag tube) and still remain over 26" OAL.
As far as I can see neither NYS or City seem to have any additional laws regarding this issue. As such it's as legal as any other pump gun. I know, AMAZING. I figured there would be some kind of law broken by this thing. But NOOOPE.

I know Mossberg 500s come with PGOs from the factory. But I prefer the Maverick's safety position so would really rather do it with one of those if possible.

Edit: Link http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

BigD_in_FL · March 6, 2013, 07:20 PM

Never said they were, BUT if you want to cut down the barrel to 14, and you start with a PGO, then you have a AOW

Pezo · March 6, 2013, 07:27 PM

I'd just get a tax stamp and avoid the 10 years and 250,000 dollar fine

BigD_in_FL · March 6, 2013, 07:28 PM

^^^Bingo

Nickel Plated · March 6, 2013, 07:50 PM

There is no 10 years and $250,000 because these are completely legal. What's there to avoid? I can understand abiding by the law, but some here seem to be all too willing to abide by laws that don't even exist.

Not to mention that SBSs and AOWs are illegal here so you can't get one even if you were willing to pay for the stamp. The whole point of this is it's neither of those so you can own it just like any regular shotgun.

Anyway it's getting kinda off-topic. I didn't come here to discuss the legality of this as it's already been covered many times in many places including on TFL.

I just want to know if Mossberg makes Mavericks in PGO configuration.

Pezo · March 6, 2013, 08:03 PM

Federal law a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" with a stock is a sbs, without a stock is an aow ( smooth bore barrel cannot be a hand gun ). Less than 26" overall and or less than an 18" barrel shotgun requires a tax stamp assuming you also don't violate state law ( New York likely ).

kozak6 · March 6, 2013, 08:36 PM

It's not about abiding by laws that don't exist. It's about giving yourself a margin of safety. 14" factory PGO's are only technically legal because it hinges on BATFE interpretation of NFA law.

If they wanted to, they could change their mind and throw you in the slammer, easy as that.

A few inches of barrel aren't worth potential prison time.

keenanred · March 6, 2013, 09:07 PM

thank you for the info and sorry bout that nickel

TxGun · March 7, 2013, 02:41 AM

Putting quite a bit of faith on what appears to be a rather obscure technicality. I can see someone explaining the nuances of this to BATFE agents as they are leading him out the door in cuffs

.

Nickel Plated · March 7, 2013, 07:51 PM

Or you know, just keep the letter form the technical branch stating that it's fine.

While I am aware that this is all based on a ruling that ATF can reverse at pretty much any moment, this ruling has been in place since the 1960s and doesn't look to be going anywhere anytime soon. Even if it did I would hear of it. It's not like ATF agents will swoop in to take me away the second the ruling changes. Once it does, swap the barrel back to 18" and say "Welp, that was fun while it lasted"

Again, can I just get a straight answer to my question?
I see Serbu builds their Super Shorties as AOWs from Mavericks that had pistol grips on them. So they must be out there, however when I search the net for a PGO Mav 88 they are nowhere to be found. Except for ones where people simply stuck a grip on an originally stocked gun. Have the PGO models been discontinued?

Jeremy5248 · March 9, 2013, 07:41 PM

I just bought the Raptor Grip from Shockwave Technologies. It's a great option if you're looking to shorten the overall length. Plus, it's better ergonomically than the standard pistol grip. Installation time is less than five minutes and it fits perfect. Quality material and sturdy feel make this a great buy. Add the fact that it's $29.95 and shipping was super quick. Below are a few pictures of the Raptor Grip on my Maverick 88. It is also compatible with the Mossberg 500.

Nickel Plated · March 12, 2013, 10:17 PM

Yeah that's the kind of grip I was thinking of using. Except I want wood so likely have to make my own. But in that style.

Anyway it looks like this thread is kind of dead so I'll just toss in a somewhat relevant question that I have been wondering about.

Since an AOW, like this non-NFA 14.5" shotgun can only be made from a shotgun that was never legally classed as a "shotgun" (aka, no stock)
How do people make Remington 870 AOWs since AFAIK all 870s are made with stocks on them? Do they source bare receivers somewhere?

kozak6 · March 16, 2013, 02:22 AM

You could probably special order whatever you need from Remington if you had a large enough order.

March 6, 2013, 04:43 PM	#1
Nickel Plated Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 610	Maverick 88 PGO from the factory. Just wanted to know if Mossberg offers the Maverick 88 as a PGO. I'm really interested in making one of those non-NFA 14" shotguns for myself as a range toy, but the legality of the whole thing hangs on it never having had a stock attached to it. So simply swapping a pistol grip on the thing won't cut it (atleast not if someone decides to really look into the history of that particular gun) So I need one that came as a PGO straight from the factory. However looking at Mossberg's site, the Mavericks seem to only be available with stocks.

March 6, 2013, 05:12 PM	#3
keenanred Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 5	moss 500 can you put a stock on a moss 500 pistol grip, no it has never had a stock on it, and what is a pgo

March 6, 2013, 05:22 PM	#5
keenanred Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 5	ok ok so it is legal, thanks

March 6, 2013, 09:07 PM	#13
keenanred Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 5	ok thank you for the info and sorry bout that nickel

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March 6, 2013, 05:07 PM	#2
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	You can't. It will still be an AOW (Mossberg makes the PGO 500)and require a $5 tax stamp (registration) And in Brooklyn ( where at?) I doubt it will become a reality during the current "stuff" happening

March 6, 2013, 05:16 PM	#4
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	IF you put a stock on a PGO, then you can never go AOW on shortening the barrel. PGO is "pistol grip only"

March 6, 2013, 07:20 PM	#7
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Never said they were, BUT if you want to cut down the barrel to 14, and you start with a PGO, then you have a AOW

March 6, 2013, 07:27 PM	#8
Pezo Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Location: Vernors and orange barrels. Posts: 661	I'd just get a tax stamp and avoid the 10 years and 250,000 dollar fine

March 6, 2013, 07:28 PM	#9
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	^^^Bingo

March 6, 2013, 07:50 PM	#10
Nickel Plated Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 610	There is no 10 years and $250,000 because these are completely legal. What's there to avoid? I can understand abiding by the law, but some here seem to be all too willing to abide by laws that don't even exist. Not to mention that SBSs and AOWs are illegal here so you can't get one even if you were willing to pay for the stamp. The whole point of this is it's neither of those so you can own it just like any regular shotgun. Anyway it's getting kinda off-topic. I didn't come here to discuss the legality of this as it's already been covered many times in many places including on TFL. I just want to know if Mossberg makes Mavericks in PGO configuration.

March 6, 2013, 08:03 PM	#11
Pezo Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Location: Vernors and orange barrels. Posts: 661	Federal law a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" with a stock is a sbs, without a stock is an aow ( smooth bore barrel cannot be a hand gun ). Less than 26" overall and or less than an 18" barrel shotgun requires a tax stamp assuming you also don't violate state law ( New York likely ).

March 6, 2013, 08:36 PM	#12
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	It's not about abiding by laws that don't exist. It's about giving yourself a margin of safety. 14" factory PGO's are only technically legal because it hinges on BATFE interpretation of NFA law. If they wanted to, they could change their mind and throw you in the slammer, easy as that. A few inches of barrel aren't worth potential prison time.

March 7, 2013, 02:41 AM	#14
TxGun Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Family ranch - Central TX. Posts: 467	Putting quite a bit of faith on what appears to be a rather obscure technicality. I can see someone explaining the nuances of this to BATFE agents as they are leading him out the door in cuffs .

March 7, 2013, 07:51 PM	#15
Nickel Plated Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 610	Or you know, just keep the letter form the technical branch stating that it's fine. While I am aware that this is all based on a ruling that ATF can reverse at pretty much any moment, this ruling has been in place since the 1960s and doesn't look to be going anywhere anytime soon. Even if it did I would hear of it. It's not like ATF agents will swoop in to take me away the second the ruling changes. Once it does, swap the barrel back to 18" and say "Welp, that was fun while it lasted" Again, can I just get a straight answer to my question? I see Serbu builds their Super Shorties as AOWs from Mavericks that had pistol grips on them. So they must be out there, however when I search the net for a PGO Mav 88 they are nowhere to be found. Except for ones where people simply stuck a grip on an originally stocked gun. Have the PGO models been discontinued?

March 12, 2013, 10:17 PM	#17
Nickel Plated Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 610	Yeah that's the kind of grip I was thinking of using. Except I want wood so likely have to make my own. But in that style. Anyway it looks like this thread is kind of dead so I'll just toss in a somewhat relevant question that I have been wondering about. Since an AOW, like this non-NFA 14.5" shotgun can only be made from a shotgun that was never legally classed as a "shotgun" (aka, no stock) How do people make Remington 870 AOWs since AFAIK all 870s are made with stocks on them? Do they source bare receivers somewhere?

March 16, 2013, 02:22 AM	#18
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	You could probably special order whatever you need from Remington if you had a large enough order.