Why the p220?

[chemcal]

My first semi auto was a 220. But, ammo price, higher capacity, consistant trigger pull, and the call of a DAO took me to a p250. I do use a PPQ for range.Why do people still carry a large 220 with such low round count considering improved "modern" ammo?

[KMAX]

Same reason people still carry 1911s. They are great, reliable, excellent shooting firearms.

[lamarw]

Ammo prices come way down if you reload. I have several pistols in both the P220 and the P250 model. I often carry my sub-compact P250 in 9mm and often have my full size P250 in .45 ACP while in my truck or boat. I seldom carry either of my P220's but do shoot them frequently.

Both models are good pistols, but you can not honestly compare the two. The P220 is far superior in sheer quality.

[TunnelRat]

I can't think of any good reason why someone would carry a P250.

Personal preference is a hell of a thing.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by chemcal

Why do people still carry a large 220 with such low round count considering improved "modern" ammo?

1. Shooting a .45 well has become, for some, a rite of passage of almost mystical significance.
   
2. Then, too, not everyone agrees that modern ammo has IMPROVED that much. (I think it has, but that's me.)
   
3. There's not a lot of real-world data that can be used to compare gun or round performance used in human shootings: there are SO MANY factors that typically aren't assessed and no real consistency in measurement, such as the number of rounds fired or the loads used, the type of weapons used, barrel length, the conditions under which the shootout occurred (inside or out, weather conditions, day or night), the experience and relative competence of those involved in the shooting, etc., etc.
   

   Example: a lot of shootings stop relatively quickly, because one party is psychologically unwilling to continue after being hit. In such cases, the round may be relatively unimportant, and that "best case" result should NOT be given as much eight in the analysis or conclusions where the "stop" (i.e., the round fired) was the true physical cause of the stop.

4. In ballistic gel tests, except for the basic FBI standards addressing the depth of penetration and the consistency of the gel, there seems to be no widely accepted standards in place for simulating the presence of clothing, bone structure, organs, etc.

There are so many variables, even if you feel a NEED to change what you're using, it's hard to know where to go... It doesn't surprise me that folks still carry P220s, or 1911s, or small .32 caliber handguns, for that matter....

[noonesshowmonkey]

Sig wondered at the same thing, and thus was birthed the P227.

[Walt Sherrill]

Sig wondered at the same thing, and thus was birthed the P227.

And ... the P226, and the P228 and the P229....

It's just surprising that it took them so long to get to the P227, or to the 10mm version of the P220.

I suspect they'll sell a LOT of P220s in 10mm.

[bamaranger]

The P220 was an issued/approved handgun for my agency when the switch was made from revolvers to semiautos. The other choices (at the time) were the P228/9mm) and the P229/.40, and the single stack P225/9mm, and the P226/9mm. The P226 was not yet on the market in .40, and the P229 was not chambered in 9mm. That's all there was......period. Choose.

Hardly anybody choose the single stack P225/9mm. A few went with the P228/9mm, as it was the transition pistol and they were already issed for the most part, and there was alot of ammo available within the agency. But the transition was occurring on the heels of the infamous FBI Miami shootout, and the 9mm was not receiving much good press. Most those that did select the 9mm went with the full size P226 for higher capacity and the hope of higher velocity with the longer tube and +P ammo. But the 9mm did not have much of a following.

The only platform for the .40 (at the time) was the P229. It was a relatively new cartridge, but seemed a good compromise between capacity and power. I'd say about half the staff nation wide went with the new cartridge and the P229 introduced to handle it. There were some teething problems, and more than one P229 blew and extractor for unexplainable reasons, likely due to high pressure ammo. And thus an auto pistol was reduced to a $500 dollar "two shot". The replacment extractor pin and spring were different, and the extractor may well have been also. I was present and repaired two such examples.

That left the P220/.45. and about half the staff where I worked, and I suspect nationwide, went with same. A proven track record for reliability, capacity was improved over the revolvers so many of us came up with (8+1 rds v. 6) that capacity was not an issue. The .45 was thought of as at least the equal of the .357 ammo we had carried, and superior to the .38/110 +P+ which was also issue. And so the P220 went to work for a lot of Rangers.

[2tango2]

Ask the Connecticut State Police


Just an awesome gun period

I know just an opinion

[AK103K]

I switched to the P220 when I quit the 1911's. The P220 really isnt all that big, its more or less the same size as a Colt Commander.

The P220 is a great, accurate, and reliable handgun, as are most SIG's. Once I had my first, I soon had a couple of more, and soon spread to the P226's and P229's, P239, P6/225's, P230's, P245, a P250, and even a P238, the only "dud" in 17 SIG's.

While going through the P series guns, I found 357SIG, and it wasnt a hard leap from .45. Im from the era of .357Mag/.45acp caliber carry guns. If you carried an auto, it was .45, and a serious revolver, was .357Mag. 357SIG seemed like the best of both worlds, and it increased the number of rounds in the gun, so, whats no to like?

After spending some time with 357SIG, I came to realize, it really wasnt doing anything +P+ 9mm could do, and 9mm was a good bit cheaper, and more versatile. That, and the ever rising cost of the SIG's, drove me back to Glocks, and I ended up getting rid of all but one of my P230s.

I always liked my P250. Best feeling grip of any of them, and a sweet DAO trigger. I know a lot of people dont like them, but I never had any trouble with mine, and it was as accurate and as reliable as my other SIG's. It, and my P245, were the only DAO SIG's I had, and I actually liked the P245's DAO trigger (true DA, not a DAK) the most of all of them. Should have kept that one too.

[mavracer]

considering improved "modern" ammo?

Considering that even the new ammo sucks cause it's still pistol ammo, I'm not just gonna write off a 20-30% larger hole as worthless.

The P220 is a great, accurate, and reliable handgun, as are most SIG's.

This is the biggest reason I still have my old X LEO P220 in my truck I know it's just gonna work.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Why not? Just kidding. I don't go for low round count guns anymore. I just can't do it.

I carry a P226, P229, or Glock 19. All 9mm's for that reason. I love the .45ACP don't get me wrong. I just cannot get myself to carry such a low capacity handgun anymore.

These are why I've opted for a high capacity 9mm...

• In case of multiple attackers, more round to go to work with.
• In case of any missed shots, there's a little more chances.
• More rounds between reloads, we all know reloads can go bad.
• Less felt recoil, with less range time needed to get confident with.
• Spare mag can have just as many or more rounds if need be.

So I do love the P220. I just like my 9mm SIG's more.

The HK45C, 1911's, and P220's have the same 8 + 1 round count.

[chemcal]

I too really enjoy shooting my 220. Just wish Glock et al would have left well enough alone.

[chris in va]

I tried very hard to like my 220, I really did. Light, reliable, high quality.

That darn manual of arms though. Goofy decocker and long DA pull along with single stack mag and skinny grip? Nah. The trigger return spring was a weak point and snapped during a match.

If it had a safety and fatter, hand filling grip like the 229 I might have kept it, but alas. My CZ97 fits the bill.

[745SW]

P220 DA mode did not work for me for 45auto because of reach and recoil. Perhaps a reason why the Colt Double Eagle didn't make it in the market. All of my 45autos are SAO.

[highpower3006]

If you learn how to shoot, you won't need twice as many rounds to do the job.

[drobs]

Did Sig work the bugs out of the P250?

[Jim Watson]

Well, sort of.
They replaced the hammer with a striker and called it the P320.

[TunnelRat]

If you learn how to shoot, you won't need twice as many rounds to do the job.

Lol. Good luck with that.

[AK103K]

Lol. Good luck with that.

Ill second that.

[Bongo Boy]

Folks carry what they're comfortable with, I guess. I bought the stainless Elite because I wanted the extra weight, but I never intended it for carry and wouldn't even consider it unless nothing else was available. There are lots of great guns in .45, the P220 is one of them. Overall, it served no real purpose for me--wasn't a carry gun, wasn't a target gun, wasn't a competition action gun, and I didn't need another home defense gun.

I think relatively large, relatively heavy and relatively low-capacity handguns still have an appeal, and as long as they remain relatively expensive--folks will swear by them and enjoy them.

I also found the DA/SA and decocker setup to be 'goofy', although it never caused me an practical problem--it also served no practical purpose, either. I'm far faster, more confident, more accurate and far happier with my MP45c, and simply find it a 'better' gun overall for my interests. OTOH, I have no interest in DAO guns and they have no appeal to me--I do like my Kahr K40, but I wouldn't ever buy another DAO gun--I can understand why some folks like the SA/DA of the Sig, though.

As for modern ammo being 'better', it could be New and Improved all day long and I'm still going to carry a .45 or a 10mm as my first choices...I don't think one has to give up concealability, controllability or any other ability to do that. I'm okay with 8+1 or 10+1, and I think quite a few folks probably are, too--and wouldn't see the P220 as having a downside because of that.

[ritepath]

You have a 250 and you're daring question why someone would own a 220 because of it's trigger???


Because 220 owners aren't intimidated with lower capacity of the 45. Most aren't scared of those strange lumpy things on the back of the pistol that move back and fourth when the trigger is pulled. Some even put their thumb on that strange part and pull it back like those civil war folks did their muskets. A few of us don't mind that odd feel of a all metal pistol.

The 220 is for folks that don't want cocked and locked or a goofy grip safety, and the wonderful thin profile and thin grip that makes it easy to conceal.

What really makes the plastic folks mad is when a 220 owner opts for the all steel version.

[highpower3006]

Lol. Good luck with that.

What? Are you alluding to the fact that most shooters are such lousy shots that they now equate 15 near misses with effectiveness?

A good old single stack .45 is a great defensive weapon. Thinner than the usual double stack and IMO usually much better balanced. I'll repeat myself, if you learn how to shoot, you don't need a dozen rounds.

[TunnelRat]

What? Are you alluding to the fact that most shooters are such lousy shots that they now equate 15 near misses with effectiveness?

I'll repeat myself, if you learn how to shoot, you don't need a dozen rounds.

Adrenaline is a hell of a thing and accuracy under fire can easily go to hell, even for those with extensive training. You're also ignoring the idea of being attacked by multiple assailants. Criminals can be stupid, but stupidity loves company and they often work together and can attack from different directions. There also might be barriers that need to be defeated (a lot of us use cars to get around and so do criminals). Couple all of that together with the fact that handgun rounds can be notoriously ineffective unless you manage a hit to the central nervous system (shots anywhere else on the body are timers until the assailant is incapacitated, with some areas, i.e. upper thorax where the heart, aorta, and lungs can be found, faster than others) and you have your answer as to why there isn't a single professional instructor or organization I can think of that would suggest that only those that don't know how to shoot would carry higher capacity handguns.

[AK103K]

A good old single stack .45 is a great defensive weapon. Thinner than the usual double stack and IMO usually much better balanced. I'll repeat myself, if you learn how to shoot, you don't need a dozen rounds.

I spent a lot of time with single stack .45's, longer than some who post here, have been alive. I understand what they are and are not.

I also dont look at anything as "defensive" either, thats not the correct mindset. The weapon may be used in defense, but there will be nothing defensive about what happens, after it starts.

My double stack Glock 9mm's are thinner/smaller across the grip, and in all directions, than my Colt GM's and Commanders, and SIG P220's were. More than double the on board ammo too. Just because I have double the ammo, doesnt mean its there to be wasted.

As to the last part, about learning to shoot, I think TunnelRat summed things up nicely. If you shoot the least bit realistically, you understand, that those cute little groups you shoot on a static range, at a little black spot, really tell you little, as to what your skills are. That basic stuff, simply confirms you have the basics down. Once you see you have that down, you should move on to the more advanced challenges, if you hope to be real world proficient.