The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 6, 2012, 08:42 PM   #26
Coach Z
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2011
Location: RI
Posts: 795
I keep an AR loaded with tap and have run several boxes (about twenty) through my rock river AR and have never had any failures whatsoever and it certainly is more accurate then ball at 100yds. Not that that's important for the application just a testament to the quality of the ammo.
Coach Z is offline  
Old July 7, 2012, 01:36 AM   #27
That'll Do
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 546
Waaaaay too much gun shop theories and non-sense in this thread.

An excellent resource of FACTS can be found here: http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91 (the Terminal Ballistics subforum of M4Carbine.net

Here is a thread about wound ballistics everyone should read if the actually want to gain some knowledge on the subject: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=34714

And finally, here is a list of defensive loads that have been tested and proven to be effective: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...
That'll Do is offline  
Old July 7, 2012, 09:28 AM   #28
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
I've not used the TAP, but folks have posted that it's one of the better loads where over-penetration of walls could be a problem.

I've used '70s-era GI ammo and a lot of 50- and 55-grain handloads on coyotes, jackrabbits and prairie dogs. Given the amount of yuck and goo created, I'd not worry a lot about what to use as a defense load where the over-penetration is not an issue.

"It ain't the load; it's the scenario."
Art Eatman is offline  
Old July 7, 2012, 10:02 AM   #29
dave9969
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 199
water-man
trust me I think about these things, usually when I am at the range every other Saturday.
this is also why I prefer my 20 gauge for "home" defense, it is a pump action and as we all know that is a Universal sound for " you are about to meet your maker" and will pretty much make a bad guy think twice about going through that doorway. Its loaded with game shot and would probably not kill past 15 feet by the spread on the load/barrel as I have taken the choke off it to make it spread a bit wider. It cuts a nice pattern of about a 5 foot circle up to 25 feet after that it spreads pretty fast. And since its game shot walls pretty much are the last place it goes, not through it.

again, though, I may end up with the AR, so I asked the question here for ideas for Home Defense just in case.
dave9969 is offline  
Old July 7, 2012, 10:36 AM   #30
Water-Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2008
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,126
Dave,

Nothing wrong with using a 20ga. for HD.

BUT!!

Stop thinking that the sound of racking a shotgun is going to scare-off every bad guy within hearing distance.

Use ammo that is more effective such as Remington Express Buckshot #3 buck.

Stay safe.

W-M
Water-Man is offline  
Old July 7, 2012, 08:28 PM   #31
mitranoc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2011
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 337
Even though my AR isn't my SHTF home defender, I still keep Hornady TAP 75 grain FPD in it...just in case ( 1 in 7 twist). As already mentioned, If you have neighbors close by, you have to keep over-penetration in mind.
mitranoc is offline  
Old July 7, 2012, 10:13 PM   #32
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 7,097
That'll Do,

I find nothing in your references that contradicts anything I've written in response to the OP's original or follow on clarification posts. Bottom line both here and at m4carbine.net is that all bullets are lethal on human flesh. The other characteristics such as barrier penetration or long range accuracy are debated hotly, but not lethality.

In face, here is from your link.

Quote:
Keep in mind, that with non-fragmenting bullet designs, heavier bullet weights are not necessarily better, especially at closer ranges and from shorter barrels. As long as penetration and upset remain adequate, it is possible to use lighter weight non-fragmenting bullets and still have outstanding terminal performance. With fragmenting designs, a heavier bullet is ideal, as it provides more potential fragments and still allows the central core to have enough mass for adequate penetration. In addition, heavier bullets may have an advantage at longer ranges due to better BC and less wind drift.
Lethality always comes in threes: Accuracy, penetration, disruption. If you hit the target where you aimed, the bullet penetrates properly into tissue, and then disrupts enough tissue through fragmentation or deformation, you'll get CNS death or "blood out air in." At the velocities generated by the 223, you are going to get penetration and disruption with every common load out there, and accuracy is up to you.

Jimro
__________________
Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.
Jimro is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 05:39 AM   #33
vaught221
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2012
Posts: 3
DRT Ammo

Dave my suggestion would be to check out this site:

http://drtammo.com/

This ammo is amazing, I have been researching it, and although I was not picked to go, two guys in our department got to go to a show put on by these guys and came back raving about it. I know it's sounds too good to be true, but from what I've seen and heard from the people who have seen first hand, it's all true.
vaught221 is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 05:36 AM   #34
akguy1985
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2012
Location: Claremore, Oklahoma
Posts: 179
TAP barrier load, i think its 62 grain.
__________________
Marksman of the mezzanine
akguy1985 is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 11:02 AM   #35
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
I make it a point to use cheap bullets for the AR (for general use). Me likey those cheap surplus bullets. There's no reason a 55gr FMJ @ 3000 fps wont keep someone off of you. I have no doubt that the premium bullet options available are very good, but there's also no doubt that surplus bullets will too.

Use what you're comfortable with
Edward429451 is offline  
Old August 24, 2012, 11:20 AM   #36
henschman
Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 47
I use 55 grain M193. That coming out of a 20" barrel is a proven lethal combination, and has a very low tendency to penetrate hard barriers.
henschman is offline  
Old August 24, 2012, 06:49 PM   #37
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 4,556
No self-defense expert here...

But, I would have reservations about frangible ammunition in a self-defense weapon.

I know they're used, but do not understand the rationale behind them.

While I understand the concern about penetration of walls or other hard barriers in the event of a poorly placed shot, I also understand that if the BG decides to take cover behind my kitchen counter, or a couch, or door... that I would want the ability to take him out.

Why give the BG the opportunity to turn "concealment", into "cover"- and the possibility of taking me out, due to me being helpless to shoot through his concealment?
tobnpr is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.05235 seconds with 8 queries