What gun to start?

Von_H · January 22, 2009, 07:33 PM

Hey, I wanna start target shooting in southern CA, besides the rules that Fuhrer Feinstein, etc... pass, I am also an dirt poor college student.

What that really means;
-No USED GUN MARKET whatsoever, unless you personally know the person.
("Gunbroker" is full of people who are racist against us...)
-Have no clue whats available out here in Ventura and alternatively San Bernardino
- I feel like the case in point when they say the law has something against poor-folk

I've got it looks like 600 or so...so it looks like a revolver or such.

45' seems improbably because I've got large hands for the plaster-blasters without corrective grips...
Which also means I'm probably doomed to revolvers...
.22 ammo is cheap but a walther can't really compete...or can a .380 actually do it?

So any suggestions? Do I insult you through ignorance? Please let me know or hook me up.

melchloboo · January 22, 2009, 08:12 PM

what kind of competition are you interested in?

Von_H · January 22, 2009, 08:44 PM

Pistol bulls eye... any kinda thing available though. There's supposed to be action pistol stuff here too, but anything works for point and shoot...
Just interested in size of barrel, accuracy when new, people's opinions...

just to see what options people like when they can't spend 10000000$

Casimer · January 22, 2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

45' seems improbably because I've got large hands for the plaster-blasters without corrective grips.

Have you seen the CZ 97B?

darkgael · January 22, 2009, 10:28 PM

If you are a poor college student, then you have to consider the cost of feeding whatever you purchase. Centerfire ammo is not cheap. Rimfire, .22lr, is - comparatively speaking. The difference is between six cents a shot for .22 and five to ten times that for centerfire ammo.
Buy a .22. You can shoot more and learn faster. There are all kinds of matches available for .22. Ruger. Browning - both make acceptable entry level .22 autos for under your budget.
Pete

Von_H · January 22, 2009, 10:49 PM

I'm beyond were a .22 will help skill, (a BBpistol is about the same anyways, - range cost and background check)
But, the .22 doesn't have much of a place in So Cal gun culture, add to that the $500 up-front tag for anything that can last 100,000 rounds. I use a cheap .22 auto to practice
I am more worried more about sticker than maintenance cost.
Students can easily get $10 here $10 there, but saving is impossible.
I want a piece to compete more all around.
I am aware of reload cost. I have or can get the equipment for that, 'cause
I own a 8x56r.

I am debating between just any center-fire, or if someone knows of a good .45.
I just don't know barrel length stuff for auto's.
a Rossi 6" 357 is 400 but for a 100 more I could buy a....

Von_H · January 22, 2009, 11:16 PM

If I'm going to buy an semi-auto, I need to do it before 2010.
I ain't using shnisnit that stamps my ID into it.
I really like the walther PK380 but don't think my hands will or if it would work for this

Jim Watson · January 22, 2009, 11:29 PM

NRA Conventional Pistol (bullseye) is shot in three divisions:
Smallbore = .22 Gotta have it to shoot the whole match, not just a cheap plinker for "practice" whateverthehell you think that is. The rulebook doesn't care about the California "Gun Culture", the NRA has been doing this stuff for over a hundred years and they like stablility. Can be a conversion on the .45 auto but one good enough for serious competition is not itself cheap. Marvel Unit 1 is the only one still in production worth considering.
Centerfore = .32 or larger. Used to be a lot of .38 Special revolvers, then .38 Special autos, but most folks just use the same gun as for...
Bigbore = .45 ACP Period. Mostly accurized 1911s but there are a very few others like S&W 945 and Pardini.

Now, you are not going to get all that done for $600. You are not going to do it with a .380.

I suggest you find a club to shoot at, find out what events they shoot, and see what it will take to get equipped. You might even get personally acquainted and buy secondhand guns and other gear from somebody moving up in quality or quitting due to poor health.

You could shoot smallbore only, a .22 is a Real Gun and a good one is fantastically accurate on medium priced ammo.
You could shoot centerfire only, S&W has put the K-38 back into production. I don't know the price but it will likely be less than an auto anywhere near as accurate.
You could shoot bigbore and centerfire with the same gun. Get a 1911 that is on the Schwartzenegger Reich Approved Handgun Roster and shoot it. When you are good enough to need an accurized gun, I believe you are allowed to have an existing gun worked on.

As a college student, you are no doubt accustomed to studying stuff you see no immediate use for. NRA rules are online at:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/nra-rule-books.asp

Swampghost · January 22, 2009, 11:47 PM

Have you considered moving? Most college students are dirt poor, does it really make a difference what state you are in?

Von_H · January 23, 2009, 01:14 AM

So...I gotta rugger mark 2 I can use after a few calls
Whateverthehell....don't hate me 'cause I've been edjamicated
.
...and I got 600 bucks.

What else?
Yeah, can't really move...CA is a trap, rent's to high to save, gas cost to much to make a run for it.

Does anyone other then the NRA do competitions?
I've mostly tried to start another thread more what I'm interested in. Cheap stuff that works...And is overly frugal.
Us Austrians only make a Glock so expensive...
And my Midwestern roots make me shun newfanegeld contraptions.
I honestly think a cheap gun can beat a expensive one in the right hands, it's my inner Epee-ist speaking.

I didn't want preaching about needing a .22 and I tried to move away from that without just saying it.
---------------------
I'd crack a joke, but I'm pretty sure everybody's armed.

darkgael · January 23, 2009, 06:47 AM

Quote:

I honestly think a cheap gun can beat a expensive one in the right hands,

There is a modicum of truth in that....the late Don Nygord once used a Daisy pellet gun to win a Nat'l championship (but there aren't many Don Nygords and he was also a superior air gunsmith). BUT....If the idea were really true, you'd see a lot more top competitors shooting Rugers or Brownings. The bottom line is that they don't.
Perhaps it is more accurate to say that a cheaper gun in the right hands will beat an expensive gun in the wrong hands.
The advice about going to a club or to a match is good. See what is being used.
There are certainly other forms of pistol competition - Action/practical pistol. Google IDPA or USPSA
A .45 auto will meet most of your needs. Reloading is straightforward. You should be able to find one for under the $ that you have on hand.
The .380 is rarely seen in competitions. Its big brother, the 9mm Luger, more so.
Pete

Jim Watson · January 23, 2009, 09:48 AM

If you don't want to be urged to buy a .22, which is 1/3 of an NRA match, look into IDPA and IPSC. Find out what is available in your area and THEN think about the gun. Do you no good to have a .38 Super Racegun and then find out the only range you can get to shoots Cowboy Three Gun.

www.idpa.com
www.uspsa.org

have club finders so you can see what is going on and where it is happening.

If either of those looks good, your best choice would be a 9mm Glock or whichever of its competitors (S&W Plastic M&P, Springfield XD, Beretta, Sig-Sauer, etc.) you liked best. I can't help with the cost, a dependable gun is going to cost a little money and that is that. I guess you could form Team Hi-Point and show us all what can be done with a cheap pistol, but I do not recommend it.

Von_H · January 24, 2009, 04:08 AM

Cool, They seem interesting...and not so "bourgeoisie" when it comes to equipment.
I was more reacting to a felling that top dollars were needed just to start was a bit un-American.
But the Gun laws that make it that way are
even more so...
Thanks for putting up with me

darkgael · January 24, 2009, 05:34 AM

Quote:

a felling that top dollars were needed just to start

Sorry that you got that impression. I started with a Ruger Mk.II. I still use it in matches. For CF, I used a friend's .38 revolver until I could afford my own gun. A young fellow, just starting out in Bullseye, shooting gallery matches at our club, borrowed my gun for matches until he could get his own. He just acquired a new Ruger two days ago.
Pete

hoytinak · January 24, 2009, 06:13 AM

Found out what kinda matches are in your area. Go check them out when they have a match going on and talk to the people there and find out what they're using. Then go from there.

surfersami · January 29, 2009, 10:38 AM

Don't underestimate the lowly ruger .22. I have been shooting a Mk II gov't target since the early nineties, and it will out shoot me on paper, and has harvested numerous small game animals with clean kills at moderate distances with iron sights. There is something to be said for shooting 500 rnds of .22 for less than 20 rounds of commercial .45!

Dustin0 · January 29, 2009, 10:48 AM

I know the bulls eye ppl wont be happy when I say this. Look at a S&W 22A you can get it for less then $200. It will work for bulls eye. Its cheap to fead.

January 22, 2009, 07:33 PM	#1
Von_H Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Posts: 17	What gun to start? Hey, I wanna start target shooting in southern CA, besides the rules that Fuhrer Feinstein, etc... pass, I am also an dirt poor college student. What that really means; -No USED GUN MARKET whatsoever, unless you personally know the person. ("Gunbroker" is full of people who are racist against us...) -Have no clue whats available out here in Ventura and alternatively San Bernardino - I feel like the case in point when they say the law has something against poor-folk I've got it looks like 600 or so...so it looks like a revolver or such. 45' seems improbably because I've got large hands for the plaster-blasters without corrective grips... Which also means I'm probably doomed to revolvers... .22 ammo is cheap but a walther can't really compete...or can a .380 actually do it? So any suggestions? Do I insult you through ignorance? Please let me know or hook me up. Last edited by Von_H; January 22, 2009 at 07:47 PM. Reason: bad title

January 22, 2009, 10:28 PM	#5
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	!st If you are a poor college student, then you have to consider the cost of feeding whatever you purchase. Centerfire ammo is not cheap. Rimfire, .22lr, is - comparatively speaking. The difference is between six cents a shot for .22 and five to ten times that for centerfire ammo. Buy a .22. You can shoot more and learn faster. There are all kinds of matches available for .22. Ruger. Browning - both make acceptable entry level .22 autos for under your budget. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

January 22, 2009, 10:49 PM	#6
Von_H Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Posts: 17	Should change thread to Cheapo's that beat $$$$$$ I'm beyond were a .22 will help skill, (a BBpistol is about the same anyways, - range cost and background check) But, the .22 doesn't have much of a place in So Cal gun culture, add to that the $500 up-front tag for anything that can last 100,000 rounds. I use a cheap .22 auto to practice I am more worried more about sticker than maintenance cost. Students can easily get $10 here $10 there, but saving is impossible. I want a piece to compete more all around. I am aware of reload cost. I have or can get the equipment for that, 'cause I own a 8x56r. I am debating between just any center-fire, or if someone knows of a good .45. I just don't know barrel length stuff for auto's. a Rossi 6" 357 is 400 but for a 100 more I could buy a....

January 22, 2009, 11:16 PM	#7
Von_H Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Posts: 17	oh yeah If I'm going to buy an semi-auto, I need to do it before 2010. I ain't using shnisnit that stamps my ID into it. I really like the walther PK380 but don't think my hands will or if it would work for this

January 22, 2009, 11:47 PM	#9
Swampghost Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: Florida, east coast Posts: 2,106	Have you considered moving? Most college students are dirt poor, does it really make a difference what state you are in? __________________ NRA Patron Member

January 22, 2009, 08:12 PM	#2
melchloboo Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2008 Posts: 279	what kind of competition are you interested in?

January 22, 2009, 08:44 PM	#3
Von_H Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Posts: 17	Pistol bulls eye... any kinda thing available though. There's supposed to be action pistol stuff here too, but anything works for point and shoot... Just interested in size of barrel, accuracy when new, people's opinions... just to see what options people like when they can't spend 10000000$

January 22, 2009, 11:29 PM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	NRA Conventional Pistol (bullseye) is shot in three divisions: Smallbore = .22 Gotta have it to shoot the whole match, not just a cheap plinker for "practice" whateverthehell you think that is. The rulebook doesn't care about the California "Gun Culture", the NRA has been doing this stuff for over a hundred years and they like stablility. Can be a conversion on the .45 auto but one good enough for serious competition is not itself cheap. Marvel Unit 1 is the only one still in production worth considering. Centerfore = .32 or larger. Used to be a lot of .38 Special revolvers, then .38 Special autos, but most folks just use the same gun as for... Bigbore = .45 ACP Period. Mostly accurized 1911s but there are a very few others like S&W 945 and Pardini. Now, you are not going to get all that done for $600. You are not going to do it with a .380. I suggest you find a club to shoot at, find out what events they shoot, and see what it will take to get equipped. You might even get personally acquainted and buy secondhand guns and other gear from somebody moving up in quality or quitting due to poor health. You could shoot smallbore only, a .22 is a Real Gun and a good one is fantastically accurate on medium priced ammo. You could shoot centerfire only, S&W has put the K-38 back into production. I don't know the price but it will likely be less than an auto anywhere near as accurate. You could shoot bigbore and centerfire with the same gun. Get a 1911 that is on the Schwartzenegger Reich Approved Handgun Roster and shoot it. When you are good enough to need an accurized gun, I believe you are allowed to have an existing gun worked on. As a college student, you are no doubt accustomed to studying stuff you see no immediate use for. NRA rules are online at: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/nra-rule-books.asp

January 23, 2009, 01:14 AM	#10
Von_H Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Posts: 17	yeah.... So...I gotta rugger mark 2 I can use after a few calls Whateverthehell....don't hate me 'cause I've been edjamicated . ...and I got 600 bucks. What else? Yeah, can't really move...CA is a trap, rent's to high to save, gas cost to much to make a run for it. Does anyone other then the NRA do competitions? I've mostly tried to start another thread more what I'm interested in. Cheap stuff that works...And is overly frugal. Us Austrians only make a Glock so expensive... And my Midwestern roots make me shun newfanegeld contraptions. I honestly think a cheap gun can beat a expensive one in the right hands, it's my inner Epee-ist speaking. I didn't want preaching about needing a .22 and I tried to move away from that without just saying it. --------------------- I'd crack a joke, but I'm pretty sure everybody's armed.

January 23, 2009, 09:48 AM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	If you don't want to be urged to buy a .22, which is 1/3 of an NRA match, look into IDPA and IPSC. Find out what is available in your area and THEN think about the gun. Do you no good to have a .38 Super Racegun and then find out the only range you can get to shoots Cowboy Three Gun. www.idpa.com www.uspsa.org have club finders so you can see what is going on and where it is happening. If either of those looks good, your best choice would be a 9mm Glock or whichever of its competitors (S&W Plastic M&P, Springfield XD, Beretta, Sig-Sauer, etc.) you liked best. I can't help with the cost, a dependable gun is going to cost a little money and that is that. I guess you could form Team Hi-Point and show us all what can be done with a cheap pistol, but I do not recommend it.

January 24, 2009, 04:08 AM	#13
Von_H Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Posts: 17	Cool, They seem interesting...and not so "bourgeoisie" when it comes to equipment. I was more reacting to a felling that top dollars were needed just to start was a bit un-American. But the Gun laws that make it that way are even more so... Thanks for putting up with me

January 24, 2009, 06:13 AM	#15
hoytinak Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 5,721	Found out what kinda matches are in your area. Go check them out when they have a match going on and talk to the people there and find out what they're using. Then go from there.

January 29, 2009, 10:38 AM	#16
surfersami Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 60	Don't underestimate the lowly ruger .22. I have been shooting a Mk II gov't target since the early nineties, and it will out shoot me on paper, and has harvested numerous small game animals with clean kills at moderate distances with iron sights. There is something to be said for shooting 500 rnds of .22 for less than 20 rounds of commercial .45!

January 29, 2009, 10:48 AM	#17
Dustin0 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 701	I know the bulls eye ppl wont be happy when I say this. Look at a S&W 22A you can get it for less then $200. It will work for bulls eye. Its cheap to fead.