Don't read this if you get bored easily.

Doc Hoy · February 1, 2010, 01:38 PM

Esteemed gentlemen,

It occurred to me that I have been involved in online communication since 1994. Since then I have taught online, learned online or engaged in these discussions. It is a communication medium that, because it is so one dimensional, lends itself to misunderstandings. I like humor and make use of it as often as I can. But humor is not an emotion that conveys well in this environment. Sarcasm is especially vulnerable. This is why Smileys have become so popular. It is a quick way to say, “Lest you be offended, that was a joke.”

I have never read anything on this particular forum that I thought had been presented by a poster who did not deserve my respect. I did experience what I perceived to be underserved disrespect on a different forum, and upon that occasion I forcefully registered my discontent and left. I hold all people in high regard. My assumption as that a person does not wake up in the morning and declare to himself, “I think I will go out and offend someone today.”

I bring this up because I inadvertently offended a coworker with an offhanded comment in an email. Had I only re-read the email before hitting the “send” button I would have realized how easily the comment could have been misinterpreted. Indeed it was an attempt at humor making use of sarcasm which I have already acknowledged is difficult to pull off in this monolithic environment. You can tell that I feel quite bad about it.

I feel bad enough to make a couple of things very clear. In the first place, there is not one person on this forum who I do not hold in the highest regard. You are all either established experts and simple good people, or you are genuinely interested (as I am) in learning from persons in that category. I would willingly lick a frozen flag pole before I would second guess any of you. In the second place, I would hasten to repeat that gentlemen do not generally go out of their way to offend people and so when you read something as offensive, it might be a good idea to consider alternative meanings which are less offensive. It is easy to calmly clear up misunderstandings if they really are misunderstandings. Finally, and most importantly, the originator of a message owns about 95% of the responsibility for the proper reception of the message.

Just some thoughts.

shafter · February 1, 2010, 04:47 PM

Very good point. Its easy to infer the wrong meaning over the web

sundance44s · February 1, 2010, 06:07 PM

Heck my wife can`t take a joke face to face ...
maybe its a complex thing of sorts ....

shortwave · February 1, 2010, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Just some thoughts

And wise thoughts they are.

People have dissagreements but sarcasm does nothing to solve them and usually shows the ignorance of the sarcastic person.

Thanks Doc for this reminder.

bedbugbilly · February 1, 2010, 07:29 PM

Great words Doc! One of the problems of this so-called "gift" of the computer age is that it takes away the "personal socialization" that we used to enjoy by looking a man (or woman) straight in the eye and sharing our thoughts. Someone can say something - and - it can be taken several different ways. If you had the capability of looking a person straight in the face, you normally can tell - on this lovely computer - you can't. I've seen a number of examples of sarcasm that you are talking about. 99.9% of people on any board are good intentioned folks. The .1% - well, there are those that just wake up everyday with a burr under their blanket and you can't do much about it - that's human nature.

When I post something or respond to a post - it's just my 2 cents worth which on today's market - it isn't worth much! I hope that I have never offended anyone because that is the last thing I'd want to do. I'm sorry Doc that you had a misinterpretation on an e-mail. It really is unfortunate that a person can't see that no harm was intended. I really think that we have developed into a society where folks are too easily offended and connected with that - they take themselves too seriously. I can say this - I've pm'd you on a number of things - we've posted replies back and forth on threads - and anyone in their right mind can tell that you are an upstanding guy - as are others on this site. I for one, greatly appreciate this site - I love reading the posts and have learned more from others than I will ever be able to repay with my experiences and knowledge. Some get upset when a post is put on concerning a topic that has already been beat to death - example - brass versus steel - when it comes down to it, it's personal preference and let's not even talk about it on this thread. Sometimes folks forget that there are new people on here - they may be new to the hobby - and they are curious about a certain topic so they post on it even though it's been done before. So what? Everyone has to start somewhere - it's a great hobby and if I can give them some information, I'll do it - time and time again if necessary. I just consider it a "pay back" to help somebody new the same way as some oldtimer helped me when I got started - that's what it is all about.

To sum it up - I really appreciate everybody on here - it's a great group and we all just need to remember to smile and if something hits us wrong - look at it in a number of directions. If it still hits us wrong - let it go. Take the example that ducks have to offer and let it run off your back. We all waste far too much time being upset instead of smiling and enjoying the blessings we have.

Again - just my 2 cents worth! bedbug

Gatofeo · February 2, 2010, 01:15 AM

Another "gift" of the computer age is the incorrect use of words.
Take "infamous" for example. Since its inception it meant ill fame; that is, fame of a negative sort.
President Kennedy was famous for his charm with the public, and infamous as a skirt-chaser.
Yet, nearly every day I see or hear people use infamous in place of fame. Wrong. Fame does not have the negative connotation that infamous does.
But a few years ago the dictionaries began to waffle on the definition of infamous, listing "fame" as an alternate definition.
Dictionary be damned. By doing so, it weakened a very useful, specific word.

I also hear and see notoriety, used in place of fame.
I spent 12 years as a reporter on newspapers. I know writing and the use of words. I am still in the writing business, though not with the media.
Being unaware of the true meaning of a word can, naturally, lead to unintended insult.

I once mentioned to a co-worker, in an email, that I got a nice photo of hoarfrost the other morning. Well, she was mortified!
Hoarfrost is a meteorlogical condition: fog moves in, deposits moisture on trees and such, and then the temperature dips, leaving a coat of silvery ice on the surface. It can create a stunning sight until the sun melts it.
I had to explain this to her, adding that the word, "hoar" meant silvery, gray-haired or old.
She must have thought I was a bad speller!

Other words often misused include insure vs. ensure, and irregardless vs. regardless. Irregardless is not a legitimate word; use regardless.
The list goes on.
Sadly, don't look to your newspaper for exceptional writing. The medium that produced the likes of Hemingway, Mencken, Pyle and other writers is overrun with jargon, fabrications and cutesy phrases that obfuscate communication.
The purpose of communication is to convey an idea, not impress the reader with your cleverness. Too many of today's reporters have forgotten that simple fact.
They have also forgotten Joseph Pulitzer's response. When asked the three most important rules of journalism, Pulitzer replied, "accuracy, accuracy and accuracy."

Doc Hoy · February 2, 2010, 04:01 AM

As regards careless writing, university is no different. In some, thankfully rare, cases the professors are little better than the students.

Students and faculty alike have made accomodations for the medium that they happen to be using. People speak differently in a text message from the way they do in a paragraph submitted for a grade. I guess some of that is a acceptable as they can communicate properly when they need to.

This thread has nothing to do with Colt or Remington. Thanks for abiding me.

Hardcase · February 2, 2010, 10:57 AM

Gatofeo, your post reminds me of something that happened about ten years ago in Washington, DC. One of the Mayor's aids was talking about the budget troubles that the city was having. A reporter asked a question about how the city was going to plan its budget. The aid responded that the city would have to be "niggardly" in its spending.

People got offended. Because the word "niggardly" sounds, well, like that other word that happens to be offensive, even though the the word that the aid used has absolutely no racial connotation and was a pretty appropriate description of the city's financial plans.

The aid was forced to resign, although cooler heads prevailed and he was rehired after the District's citizens were given a lesson on the difference between synonyms and homonyms. The part that I thought was ludicrous was that in the interim, the guy actually apologized for using the word - he essentially gave a mea culpa to everybody else's stupidity.

Lest anybody wonder, the two words in question have nothing in common other than that they sound similar. One is descended from Scandinavian and the other from Latin.

Incidentally, when I first heard the controversy, the initial thought that I had was that there are a lot of people around who are both overly sensitive and rather dumb. The second thought that I had was that I probably wouldn't have used the word "niggardly" just for that very reason. William F. Buckley would not be proud.

sewerman · February 2, 2010, 12:17 PM

doc, don't feel bad we all have done the same once or twice in the pass.

i respect you for your concern about the receiver's mind.

very good words of advice........

hang tuff,

sewerman

Doc Hoy · February 2, 2010, 12:46 PM

I wanted to respond to a couple of you but I wanted to read your posts more throughly before I did so.

To Gatofeo regarding journalists today....I find myself wondering where some of the folks who show up on the local news come from. I am very concerned what the contemporary journalism schools are teaching these kids.

To Bedbug...Thanks for the compliments and I feel the same way about the forum.

To Hardcase....When I heard the news article you are speaking about I had mixed emotions. Technically the speaker is correct in his assertion that his term implies a concept that is completely separate from the other term. On the other hand I asked, "Should the speaker have known the sensitivities involved and the likelihood of misinterpretation?" I am particularly sensitive in such cases because I am married to an African American women. While we have come a long way in the US (Much further than in virtually every other nation I have visited) we still have along way to go.

To Sewerman....Thanks.

Hardy · February 3, 2010, 07:51 PM

You are right Doc

I always (in my work) after receiving e-mail I call the person on my cell to make sure we're on the same page

WBHARDY

noelf2 · February 3, 2010, 08:50 PM

So you're calling us "simple"???

February 1, 2010, 01:38 PM	#1
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Don't read this if you get bored easily. Esteemed gentlemen, It occurred to me that I have been involved in online communication since 1994. Since then I have taught online, learned online or engaged in these discussions. It is a communication medium that, because it is so one dimensional, lends itself to misunderstandings. I like humor and make use of it as often as I can. But humor is not an emotion that conveys well in this environment. Sarcasm is especially vulnerable. This is why Smileys have become so popular. It is a quick way to say, “Lest you be offended, that was a joke.” I have never read anything on this particular forum that I thought had been presented by a poster who did not deserve my respect. I did experience what I perceived to be underserved disrespect on a different forum, and upon that occasion I forcefully registered my discontent and left. I hold all people in high regard. My assumption as that a person does not wake up in the morning and declare to himself, “I think I will go out and offend someone today.” I bring this up because I inadvertently offended a coworker with an offhanded comment in an email. Had I only re-read the email before hitting the “send” button I would have realized how easily the comment could have been misinterpreted. Indeed it was an attempt at humor making use of sarcasm which I have already acknowledged is difficult to pull off in this monolithic environment. You can tell that I feel quite bad about it. I feel bad enough to make a couple of things very clear. In the first place, there is not one person on this forum who I do not hold in the highest regard. You are all either established experts and simple good people, or you are genuinely interested (as I am) in learning from persons in that category. I would willingly lick a frozen flag pole before I would second guess any of you. In the second place, I would hasten to repeat that gentlemen do not generally go out of their way to offend people and so when you read something as offensive, it might be a good idea to consider alternative meanings which are less offensive. It is easy to calmly clear up misunderstandings if they really are misunderstandings. Finally, and most importantly, the originator of a message owns about 95% of the responsibility for the proper reception of the message. Just some thoughts. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 2, 2010, 01:15 AM	#6
Gatofeo Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2004 Location: Remote Utah desert Posts: 224	Another "gift" of the computer age is the incorrect use of words. Take "infamous" for example. Since its inception it meant ill fame; that is, fame of a negative sort. President Kennedy was famous for his charm with the public, and infamous as a skirt-chaser. Yet, nearly every day I see or hear people use infamous in place of fame. Wrong. Fame does not have the negative connotation that infamous does. But a few years ago the dictionaries began to waffle on the definition of infamous, listing "fame" as an alternate definition. Dictionary be damned. By doing so, it weakened a very useful, specific word. I also hear and see notoriety, used in place of fame. I spent 12 years as a reporter on newspapers. I know writing and the use of words. I am still in the writing business, though not with the media. Being unaware of the true meaning of a word can, naturally, lead to unintended insult. I once mentioned to a co-worker, in an email, that I got a nice photo of hoarfrost the other morning. Well, she was mortified! Hoarfrost is a meteorlogical condition: fog moves in, deposits moisture on trees and such, and then the temperature dips, leaving a coat of silvery ice on the surface. It can create a stunning sight until the sun melts it. I had to explain this to her, adding that the word, "hoar" meant silvery, gray-haired or old. She must have thought I was a bad speller! Other words often misused include insure vs. ensure, and irregardless vs. regardless. Irregardless is not a legitimate word; use regardless. The list goes on. Sadly, don't look to your newspaper for exceptional writing. The medium that produced the likes of Hemingway, Mencken, Pyle and other writers is overrun with jargon, fabrications and cutesy phrases that obfuscate communication. The purpose of communication is to convey an idea, not impress the reader with your cleverness. Too many of today's reporters have forgotten that simple fact. They have also forgotten Joseph Pulitzer's response. When asked the three most important rules of journalism, Pulitzer replied, "accuracy, accuracy and accuracy." __________________ "And lo, did I see an ugly cat. Smoke. Brimstone. Holes in parchment. And this ugly cat was much amused." --- The Prophesies of Gatodamus (1503 - 1566)

February 2, 2010, 04:01 AM	#7
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Gatofeo As regards careless writing, university is no different. In some, thankfully rare, cases the professors are little better than the students. Students and faculty alike have made accomodations for the medium that they happen to be using. People speak differently in a text message from the way they do in a paragraph submitted for a grade. I guess some of that is a acceptable as they can communicate properly when they need to. This thread has nothing to do with Colt or Remington. Thanks for abiding me. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 2, 2010, 10:57 AM	#8
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	Gatofeo, your post reminds me of something that happened about ten years ago in Washington, DC. One of the Mayor's aids was talking about the budget troubles that the city was having. A reporter asked a question about how the city was going to plan its budget. The aid responded that the city would have to be "niggardly" in its spending. People got offended. Because the word "niggardly" sounds, well, like that other word that happens to be offensive, even though the the word that the aid used has absolutely no racial connotation and was a pretty appropriate description of the city's financial plans. The aid was forced to resign, although cooler heads prevailed and he was rehired after the District's citizens were given a lesson on the difference between synonyms and homonyms. The part that I thought was ludicrous was that in the interim, the guy actually apologized for using the word - he essentially gave a mea culpa to everybody else's stupidity. Lest anybody wonder, the two words in question have nothing in common other than that they sound similar. One is descended from Scandinavian and the other from Latin. Incidentally, when I first heard the controversy, the initial thought that I had was that there are a lot of people around who are both overly sensitive and rather dumb. The second thought that I had was that I probably wouldn't have used the word "niggardly" just for that very reason. William F. Buckley would not be proud. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

February 2, 2010, 12:17 PM	#9
sewerman Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2005 Location: hurricane alley, florida Posts: 304	doc, don't feel bad we all have done the same once or twice in the pass. i respect you for your concern about the receiver's mind. very good words of advice........ hang tuff, sewerman __________________ "When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny!" Thomas Jefferson "They that can give up an essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety!" Benjamin franklin The Armed Citizen PREVENTS tyranny!

February 1, 2010, 04:47 PM	#2
shafter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Posts: 1,624	Very good point. Its easy to infer the wrong meaning over the web

February 1, 2010, 06:07 PM	#3
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Heck my wife can`t take a joke face to face ... maybe its a complex thing of sorts ....

February 1, 2010, 07:29 PM	#5
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Great words Doc! One of the problems of this so-called "gift" of the computer age is that it takes away the "personal socialization" that we used to enjoy by looking a man (or woman) straight in the eye and sharing our thoughts. Someone can say something - and - it can be taken several different ways. If you had the capability of looking a person straight in the face, you normally can tell - on this lovely computer - you can't. I've seen a number of examples of sarcasm that you are talking about. 99.9% of people on any board are good intentioned folks. The .1% - well, there are those that just wake up everyday with a burr under their blanket and you can't do much about it - that's human nature. When I post something or respond to a post - it's just my 2 cents worth which on today's market - it isn't worth much! I hope that I have never offended anyone because that is the last thing I'd want to do. I'm sorry Doc that you had a misinterpretation on an e-mail. It really is unfortunate that a person can't see that no harm was intended. I really think that we have developed into a society where folks are too easily offended and connected with that - they take themselves too seriously. I can say this - I've pm'd you on a number of things - we've posted replies back and forth on threads - and anyone in their right mind can tell that you are an upstanding guy - as are others on this site. I for one, greatly appreciate this site - I love reading the posts and have learned more from others than I will ever be able to repay with my experiences and knowledge. Some get upset when a post is put on concerning a topic that has already been beat to death - example - brass versus steel - when it comes down to it, it's personal preference and let's not even talk about it on this thread. Sometimes folks forget that there are new people on here - they may be new to the hobby - and they are curious about a certain topic so they post on it even though it's been done before. So what? Everyone has to start somewhere - it's a great hobby and if I can give them some information, I'll do it - time and time again if necessary. I just consider it a "pay back" to help somebody new the same way as some oldtimer helped me when I got started - that's what it is all about. To sum it up - I really appreciate everybody on here - it's a great group and we all just need to remember to smile and if something hits us wrong - look at it in a number of directions. If it still hits us wrong - let it go. Take the example that ducks have to offer and let it run off your back. We all waste far too much time being upset instead of smiling and enjoying the blessings we have. Again - just my 2 cents worth! bedbug

February 2, 2010, 12:46 PM	#10
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Four in one I wanted to respond to a couple of you but I wanted to read your posts more throughly before I did so. To Gatofeo regarding journalists today....I find myself wondering where some of the folks who show up on the local news come from. I am very concerned what the contemporary journalism schools are teaching these kids. To Bedbug...Thanks for the compliments and I feel the same way about the forum. To Hardcase....When I heard the news article you are speaking about I had mixed emotions. Technically the speaker is correct in his assertion that his term implies a concept that is completely separate from the other term. On the other hand I asked, "Should the speaker have known the sensitivities involved and the likelihood of misinterpretation?" I am particularly sensitive in such cases because I am married to an African American women. While we have come a long way in the US (Much further than in virtually every other nation I have visited) we still have along way to go. To Sewerman....Thanks. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 3, 2010, 07:51 PM	#11
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	CYBER You are right Doc I always (in my work) after receiving e-mail I call the person on my cell to make sure we're on the same page WBHARDY

February 3, 2010, 08:50 PM	#12
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	So you're calling us "simple"??? __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

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