July 9, 2011, 11:54 AM | #26 |
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When you can make a copy of that list I will Believe you. Other then that what you are saying is just hear say. The 922R list I don't care about Because I got the same chance of ATF showing up at my house as me winning the power ball.
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July 14, 2011, 11:25 PM | #27 |
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I would like to but it is actually protected under the "Electronic Communications Privacy Act". Just email them yourself. Chances are you'll get a different group of parts in response and we can compare notes.
You can see that they passed it around a bit so don't expect a quick response. I posted the attachment in the test forum.
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Have you taken someone shooting lately? Last edited by Para Cassatt; July 15, 2011 at 01:19 AM. |
July 15, 2011, 07:11 AM | #28 |
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I have a pair of Saiga 12's, one I've converted, and one still pagan. However, when it comes to reliability, both of them are 100 percent. Of course, I check them daily with anywhere from 5 to 20 rounds.
Both of them have been reprofiled and polished internally, which insures smooth as glass operation. I've done all the work on mine, and every bit of it is easy to do, fairly inexpensive, and it's work that does show clear improvement. I also have a pair of Benelli M1/Super 90's. The older of the two holds 9, if you ghost one on the lifter, the other 8....and they're sitting gathering dust in the safe. I also have pumps, but when it go to lay hand on a shotgun, it will virtually always be a Saiga. If shooting 9 rounds out of a Benelli is fun, emptying a 20 round drum with the Saiga is insane; makes you want to dance. I use mine often times for old farm shed/toilet etc. destruction. They'll make something like that into little pieces of potential mulch really quickly. And with breacher rounds? Whoa!!! My first Saiga shotgun taught me lots about the AK platform, so now I have several Saiga 7.62s and AK47s. I think that's probably where I'll stay insofar as rifles and shotguns are concerned. I'm looking next to by a Saiga .308. |
July 15, 2011, 07:53 AM | #29 | |
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Quote:
I think you misunderstand what the Act does. The Act is designed to prevent the unauthorized interception of communications (including online communications) without the proper legal backing (which varies depending on the information sought). |
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July 15, 2011, 01:39 PM | #30 |
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I like the Sahagan post. I bet he'd have a blast at our "Appliance Shoots". The guys save up all the monitors, printers, radios, microwaves along with any manner of bad, busted, or worn out used appliances. We blast them to pieces on the farm with shotguns. One guy bummed my short double to shoot his computer which gave him the satisfaction and final solution he was looking for.
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July 15, 2011, 05:00 PM | #31 |
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Perhaps so BR although there is another notice in addition to the ECPA. I haven't looked that far into it but decided not to push my luck. I should just email them back and ask if it is OK to use it.
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Have you taken someone shooting lately? Last edited by Para Cassatt; July 15, 2011 at 05:17 PM. |
July 16, 2011, 12:31 PM | #32 |
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Interesting thread. The posts about what ATF likes/dislikes is interesting. I, too, would like to see the legal references.
BTW, I am curious why the Red Jacket guy likes Saiga for his conversions. |
July 16, 2011, 02:26 PM | #33 | |
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Quote:
There's just nothing else to convert. If you want to make a regular Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 less politically correct, you're only bolting on a new stock. With the Saiga 12, there's actual work to be done to the gun. Simple work, but many folks don't want to do it. Why do they like to convert Saigas? Because that's what there is, and it helps that they're generally decent quality (and with a good machine shop, the few with issues can be remedied easily), simple to do, and the conversion increases the value enough to make a business out of it. As for the ATF, it's easy enough to find their criteria for sporting/nonsporting and the exact text of 922r. Both have even been posted on this board several times. |
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July 17, 2011, 07:02 AM | #34 |
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I keep the Saiga-12 in my vehicle. Because in my state you cannot have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle, I just keep a couple full magazines ready to insert. In two seconds flat I can have a fully loaded semi-auto for, errr... target practice.
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July 17, 2011, 10:14 AM | #35 | |
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Quote:
However, a private letter ruling is only good for the addressee and their specific circumstances anyway. Another person can't rely on it, even if you did share it. |
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July 17, 2011, 07:34 PM | #36 |
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I sent an email to them to see if it would be alright to post it. Even though it was a private ruling the question I asked was about as shipped stock guns. I then asked for a worksheet of what they considered to be countable parts on the S12 only and they did respond listing only the S12 parts. Hopefully they'll agree to the posting and the manufacturers will get to sell more US parts.
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July 17, 2011, 08:14 PM | #37 |
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Remington 1100 or 11-87
Get yourself a Remington 1100 or an 11-87 with a 26" barrel.
1) Put a choate 10 shot extension tube on it. If you don't want a 26" barrel, then get a 20" and put an 8 shot extensoon on it. 2) Put a Dave's Easy Loader on it. (Brownells) 3) Get a Speed Loader for it. You can load 4 rounds quicker than someone trying to load 1 round. 4) The shotgun comes with Rem Chokes, another plus. 5) If you get a 20" slug barrel with Rifle Sights, you can put on a Millett Rear WHITE OUTLINE sight and a Bright ORANGE Front sight. 6) Put on a JUMBO Safety. (Brownells) 7) Put on a LARGE Release Mechansim. (Brownells) 8) Port the barrel if you like. 9) Get it with or Buy Kevlar Fiberglass stock / forearm I use to build Shotguns for Combat Pistol Shooters, 3 Gun Matches. These things feed 100%, and feed anything. Good Luck |
July 22, 2011, 01:26 AM | #38 |
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Sounds good.
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July 22, 2011, 06:33 PM | #39 | |
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Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed. |
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July 23, 2011, 10:33 PM | #40 |
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WildPhil.
yeh, do all that and you still won't have anything nearly as reliable and destructive as a Saiga-12 with an MD 20 round drum. I once put over 1,100 rounds thru my unconverted Saiga without cleaning it, just as a test. Never a failure. Shot the thousandth+ round just as good and clean as the first one You all might not like the gun 'cause it's Russian or somethin', but it's a damn fine shotgun based on the Kalasnikov design ... proven throughout the world to be the most reliable design ever. |
August 6, 2011, 12:29 AM | #41 |
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They finally edited their info and OK'd my posting it. Here's the page listing the parts.
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August 7, 2011, 01:44 AM | #42 |
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Saiga 12
My Son and I both own one, and let me tell you theey are a hoot, as far as a HD gun, to long and cumbersome, but for having fun with the cheap Wally World Remingtons, they are alot of fun, Had some trouble with mine whien I first bought it, it just wouldnt cycle the rounds, back to the factory and in less than two weeks It was back, seems the wrong spring was installed, havent had a malfunction with it since. The guns are alot of fun...stegmaier
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August 7, 2011, 07:21 PM | #43 |
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I have one too. Word of advice, buy a couple of boxes of #00 buckshot to run through the gun first. I bought a case myself, 150 rounds.
I tried to run #7 1/2 through it at first, wouldn't cycle the gun. I ran 30 rounds of #00 through it fired from the shoulder, perfect! I ran another 30 rounds fired from the hip, a frickin' blast! After that the bird shot cycled just fine. Remember, stock they have a 2 position gas system. #1 is for buckshot, powerful loads. #2 is for whimpy stuff. Don't fire buckshot on the #2 position, it will eventually damage the gun. As for home defense, not my choice of weapon. Too long and cumbersome, but is a blast to blow stuff up! I need more #00! |
August 8, 2011, 03:31 AM | #44 |
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My brother had a Saiga 12 and it was a blast to shoot. He had the surefire hi cap mags (10 rounders I think) and we would get all the attention at the range when we shot the saiga as fast as possible.
The saiga did have reliability problems initially, but he had some internal parts polished and all was smooth sailing after that.
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August 8, 2011, 04:48 PM | #45 |
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Thanks for the info. It sure looks like an interesting and fun shotgun.
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August 8, 2011, 05:11 PM | #46 |
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if the saiga 12 is not that great of a gun due to the price and the reliability problems can anyone else suggest a shotgun that would be similar that doesn't have these problems? I would love to have a semi auto shotgun with a clip like this one!
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August 21, 2011, 02:01 PM | #47 |
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i bought my saiga 12 back when they costed 450 it never jamed and even broke clays with it but for home defence the action is to long thus sticking the barrel out further so its hard to get around corners. id just get a handgun
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August 22, 2011, 01:15 PM | #48 |
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Someone lent me an unconverted Saiga 12 to T&E a while back. After a year and around 500 rounds total, I sent it back. It,with the exception of some 7/8 oz loads, ate everything and worked perfectly.
What I didn't like: The trigger was nasty. I'm told the conversion fixes this. Lack of a bolt hold open feature. Sights. A large aperture peep and a front sight nigh the muzzle would have given this enough sight radius for some very good slug work. I sent it back regretfully, but still prefer my 870s. |
August 23, 2011, 08:05 PM | #49 |
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Dave. Mines not converted and has a manual bolt hold open " you have to hold the button on your last shot"
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August 23, 2011, 09:02 PM | #50 | |
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Quote:
It's very easy to clean up the trigger on a S12 conversion. As for the bolt hold open, as pointed out, it's a manual feature. Good for showing clear, useless for anything else. Given how difficult it is to load a magazine on a closed bolt, a real BHO actuated by the magazine follower would have been incredibly useful. |
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