Help to identifty

[Jim Watson]

It's OK.

Oil them up and rub them down with a coarse cloth or cheap rough brown paper towel. That will remove a lot of grime and surface rust.

You can get a clip for your M-B at
https://www.libertytreecollectors.co...?idCategory=67

Yours looks like the early model with only a three shot clip.

[Mike Irwin]

"Ok just went back a read all the info you posted so far I know I'm missing the clip for the rifle"

That's a French Berthier carbine using the Mannlicher-style en-bloc clip.

The ammunition came loaded in the clips and was inserted into the magazine. After the last round was fed into the chamber, the now empty clip fell free.

Somewhere on the barrel or receiver it should be stamped with the particular model.

As it appears to be a 3-round version (as opposed to the later 5-round version with a partially exposed magazine), it's most likely an Mle 1892, possibly a 1902 or a 1907.

On the left is the clip for your gun:



Most rifles and carbines were altered during the war to 5-round magazines because of troop complaints that 3 rounds were too few.

[Jim Watson]

For some silly reason, the Poilus objected to having only three shots when the Germans came "over the top." The five round magazine and its clip did not come along until the war was nearly over.

[Mike Irwin]

"The five round magazine and its clip did not come along until the war was nearly over."

Given the pressure that the French military complex was under, it's rather surprising that it came along at all.

That, however, was the rifle version.

The carbine version was manufactured and rolled out a lot more quickly and saw significant service during the war.

I've got a 5-shot carbine version, can't remember the specific model variation. Handy little cuss, but the bolt action just sucks on ice.

[72-cj5]

Are these the right bullets for the Roth steyr http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index....ammo-8mm-steyr

And these for the mannlicher

http://www.selwayarmory.com/prvi-par...box-of-20.html

[Jim Watson]

Yes, and yes.

And 8mm Nambu here
http://www.ammo-one.com/8mmNambu.html

I am sure the experts will warn you about having such old guns checked out before shooting them. The problem is finding a gunsmith who knows what he is looking at.

[Mike Irwin]

"And these for the mannlicher"

No, those are cartridges for your Berthier rifle.

You have a Berthier rifle, NOT a Mannlicher. A Mannlicher rifle is a completely different critter; there is a difference.

Your Berthier rifle employes a Mannlicher-style feed system.

If you were to go into a gunshop asking for ammunition for your Mannlicher rifle, you'd probably get 6.5mm ammunition for a Mannlicher Carcano rifle, which was an Italian military rifle.

[Mike Irwin]

"I am sure the experts will warn you about having such old guns checked out before shooting them."


My "old gun" checkout was always an old tire, some bungee straps, and a long string to operate the trigger.

Then again I lived in a pretty rural area when I was younger.

I'm sure if I tried that protocol these days the range masters at the NRA Range would get pretty uptight...

[72-cj5]

Ok I guess I'm a little confused I thought the rifle (the only 1 from pics) was a Mannlicher berthier

[Jim Watson]

That is what I called it based on Internet listings.
As Mike says, the only Mannlicher feature is the discarding clip.

I am glad Mike brought up the tire and string method of "checking out" a used gun. My boss was scared of his actual war trophy Arisaka, so I walked him through that process. It did fine. As P.O. Ackley said, no nation intentionally issued booby traps to its troops... even Italy.

[Mike Irwin]

"Ok I guess I'm a little confused I thought the rifle (the only 1 from pics) was a Mannlicher berthier"

Nope, it was never identified as such. It was always simply the Berthier.

[72-cj5]

Ahh ok make sense now thank you for the info and help you ha e been giving me and helping get and all the time you took to post all of you guys are awesome thanks I'm probably going to try and order a Clip for the berthier and some ammo for both this Friday I'll repost when I find the ammo for the berthier so you guys can confirm they are right before ordering

[Mike Irwin]

Prepare to be shocked by the price.

They're pretty uncommon, and as such can be rather pricey - $20 and above.

Then there's also the issue of in regular use the clip is actually damaged slightly when the rounds feed, so you might find that feeding isn't 100% reliable with a reused clip.

[Mike Irwin]

Also, if you read French (you can get by with Spanish or Italian, to a degree), there are downloadable PDFs of Berthier rifles here:

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/lebe...thier-manuals/

They are apparently scans of original manuals.

[72-cj5]

Honestly I don't plan on shooting either of the guns that have hard to find ammo much I just wanna shoot them a couple times and keep a hand full off round in the safe for them I mostly shoot 45 acp

[Mike Irwin]

Word to the wise...

That carbine will beat the snot out of you.

I've fired mine 5 times, and it was suitably rocking.

[72-cj5]

That's sweet I love a power house ha I just traded a 7mm magnum for 2 scout 800 and that thing kicked like a mule

[72-cj5]

One more question is it bad to shoot both barrels of the shot gun at the same time?

[Mike Irwin]

Well, it all depends, really.

Both barrels on a light target load won't put that much stress on the gun and stock, but tripping both barrels on heavy field loads, slugs, etc., can put a tremendous amount of stress on the stock and could, possibly, cause the stock to fracture at the wrist or crack throuh the inletting.

I had both barrels of a single-trigger 12 gauge fire simo due to a serious problem with the gun, and even with moderate target loads it wasn't particularly pleasant.

[72-cj5]

I was just curious I don't plan on firing off both at the same time but it does sounds like something I'd try just once