Having issue with Arisaka safety

moziyimorin · November 25, 2016, 12:12 AM

I bought a Sporterized Arisaka a few months back. A pretty little gun actually. The previous owner put it in a nice walnut stock, the bolt is bent and it has a scope. The trigger is decent, and it still uses the original safety (which I think is neat). When I push in the safety knob and turn it clock wise the safety engages, however if I so much as touch the bolt the safety disengages. I have fiddled around with it for some time, and very (very) occasionally have been able to get it to function properly. I have disassembled it, inspected it, compared it (both the safety knob and the slot on the received it slides into) to multiple pictures of other Arisaka safeties and mine seems to look alright, yet still malfunctions. Any insight you good gentleman may have to offer would be very much appreciated. P.s. I did take it to a gun smith who was also unable to get it working properly.

Blindstitch · November 25, 2016, 12:28 AM

It probably doesn't matter but what model is it?

We have many people here who are very familiar with the Arisakas so someone should be along shortly.

I had to go to the other room and check my Type 38 and it locks just fine. Any chance you can take some pictures of the safety knob. Might be a bit of grease or something inside the bolt causing a slight blockage.

moziyimorin · November 25, 2016, 10:35 AM

It is a type 38. I cleaned the slot it slides into real well, however I haven't taken the bolt apart and tried to clean that as deeply yet. I'll do that next. I thought maybe the firing pin spring is seizing up and needs replacing? I'll try and get some pictures up today as well.

Gunplummer · November 26, 2016, 06:56 PM

If you "So much as touch the bolt" and it disengages, it is not completely engaged. Look at the slot in the receiver that the stud under the safety knob rides in. When fully engaged, the safety has to be pushed forward to move back into the fire position. The 6.5's can be a little finicky when it comes to safety fit. Some are almost a hand fit situation. You may have a 99 safety and firing pin, and they do work. The first thing to check is the location of the stop on the bolt body that stops the safety rotation. If it is a little off, it will not let the safety fully engage. It could be a bent spring,or a very short spring, but usually not. Some of the firing pins were fully enclosed, even the slot area. Sometimes the little knob on the safety stud can get hung up in the slot because the slot is not broached wide enough. I would check the stop on the bolt. That is the most common problem with all the parts that were interchanged.

moziyimorin · November 27, 2016, 11:19 PM

I think your right. I have been trying to upload images but the firing line had not been letting me do it. How would I fix the stop on the bolt? It's difficult to know for sure without seeing it in action, but I can't see through the bolt

I could open up the area the stud on the safety knob rides in as well. Would this be a good idea?

moziyimorin · November 27, 2016, 11:21 PM

But just to be sure we are talking about the same part, what do you mean by the stop on the bolt? Are you referring to the two notches cut out of the bolt body that the firing pin rides in?

doofus47 · November 28, 2016, 11:26 AM

Do all the serial numbers match?

moziyimorin · November 28, 2016, 09:51 PM

No I don't believe they do

FrankenMauser · November 29, 2016, 04:32 AM

As-is, you need to stop shooting the rifle, until the problem is corrected. Malfunctioning Arisakas like to discharge on bolt-opening, which is a very, very bad thing.

---

I'm not saying it's a lost cause, because it's not. A GOOD gunsmith with experience in Arisakas could probably correct the issue.

But...
Most modern "gunsmiths" have never touched an Arisaka and don't understand:
A) how close-tolerance actions operate.
B) how Arisakas work.
C) how anything other than an AR-15 or Remington 700 can function, without just swapping "bad" parts for a stupidly-expensive aftermarket replacement.

The modern "gunsmith" is an internet-dependent hack that has no understanding of 99% of firearms out there, let alone how to troubleshoot and repair them.

If you can't figure out and correct the problem, then you need to get the rifle to a competent and qualified gunsmith; that can troubleshoot, identify, and correct the problem.

If all else fails, send it to Summit Arms Services. They'll at least diagnose the problem, even if not repairable.
(The owner is a member here, for the record.)

moziyimorin · November 29, 2016, 10:44 AM

Yup, it is put away right now. I was never a fan of carrying a rifle that has no safety while I'm hunting in the field. I'm using my 30 06 this year, but would love to get the Arisaka up and running for next Nebraska deer season, hence me posting my question about it here.

moziyimorin · November 29, 2016, 10:45 AM

I always have the option of installing a Timney trigger with a side safety, but was hoping I could get the original safety operating correctly.

FrankenMauser · November 29, 2016, 05:45 PM

Find the problem before replacing parts.
If there's a problem with the striker, a new trigger is not likely to make the rifle any safer.

Gunplummer · November 29, 2016, 06:16 PM

The safety stop on the bolt : Hold the bolt with the face away from you and the bolt handle on the right, just as it is locked in the receiver. Near the rear of the bolt on the right hand side is a small protrusion. It is slightly below center. What this does is keep the bolt from opening when the safety is on. If it is a mismatched safety and bolt, this will sometimes stop the safety from rotating into the safe position completely. I keep forgetting it was sporterized. In this case it can be the trigger/sear. If someone removed too much metal from the sear to "Lighten" the trigger pull, it will for sure affect the safety operation. The F/pin turns with the safety and the sear must hold it back far enough for it to turn. If the F/pin spring was cut down to make the safety operate easier, that will affect it too. Check the screw coming up through the stock. It cannot stick up past the receiver very far. It is hard to tell with out seeing it operate, but that should keep you busy for a while.

moziyimorin · November 30, 2016, 11:16 PM

Gunplummer

So, worked on the rifle a bit today. Opened up the slot the stud slides into. After working it, I can see that the stud slides over the screw hole when compressed without any problems and slides over fully, but then it does not push down into that slot. It just hangs there. It could be the bolt stop as well as the spring or trigger. I was thinking of ordering a new spring from wolf for a few bucks and seeing if that helps. How would you recommend approaching the bolt stop to see if I can get that to work?

Gunplummer · December 1, 2016, 05:03 AM

There is not much material there, but sometimes you can remove a little so the safety will turn more. The is a last step. Usually that does not cause problems unless there were parts interchanged. Look closely at the back of the sear when the bolt is out. It must be flush with the back of that machined area it sticks out of. The F/pin must be able to turn with the safety. There are not many parts. If you just think about where the parts are and what they are doing as they move, you can probably figure it out. It may well be the spring. A guy once brought me a 99 that he ground the front of the long stud on the safety down to make it easier to work. It then did not work at all. If you think about it, all that did was take a lot of tension off the spring.

Gunplummer · December 1, 2016, 05:06 AM

There is not much material there, but sometimes you can remove a little so the safety will turn more. The is a last step. Usually that does not cause problems unless there were parts interchanged. Look closely at the back of the sear when the bolt is out. It must be flush with the back of that machined area it sticks out of. The F/pin must be able to turn with the safety. There are not many parts. If you just think about where the parts are and what they are doing as they move, you can probably figure it out. It may well be the spring. A guy once brought me a 99 that he ground the front of the long stud on the safety down to make it easier to work. It then did not work at all. If you think about it, all that did was take a lot of tension off the spring. I just reread your post. You are saying the safety will not turn at all when you press it in?

moziyimorin · December 1, 2016, 09:41 AM

The safety turns fully, with the notch on the knob centered on the bolt in the safe position like it should be, and the stud is fully moved over to the left but the stud won't slide back and rest in the notch cut out for it in the receiver. That's why I thought the spring might not be decompressing. But it could just as easily be the bolt stop or even sear like you said.

moziyimorin · December 1, 2016, 11:13 AM

So my next question would be if the safety knob turns fully, would the bolt stop keep it from sliding back into that recess in the receiver?

Gunplummer · December 2, 2016, 02:33 AM

It will, but that would be an uncommon problem. That is what keeps the bolt from opening when in the safe position. There is very little play in the bolt when the safety is on. With just the F/pin and bolt in hand, the F/pin should drop into the bolt freely and turn freely into all positions. If it binds somewhere it will also cause a malfunction. This is IMPORTANT. Are you sure it is a T-38 bolt in there? A t-99 bolt will lock in, but the headspace will be about 1/8 inch off! Check some pictures on the net. The locking lugs on the 6.5 bolt are a lot different.

moziyimorin · December 2, 2016, 08:37 PM

After looking at multiple bolts for sale on gun broker of both 99s and 38s it looks like a 38. I compared the locking lugs and it is indeed a type 38. So there goes that possibility. I don't think it is the bolt stop, as the safety turns freely into position, but refuses to slide back into the safety notch. I ordered a new firing pin spring, and we will see if that changes things.

moziyimorin · December 2, 2016, 10:58 PM

Eureka! After taking the bolt out and just trying to fit the safety knob in by hand I realized that even with the knob centered it wasn't sliding back into that slot. But, if I turned it a tad more it slipped down in. So, out came the dremel and off came a sliver of metal from the bolt stop and the stud on the safety knob, and now it slides in every time, and the bollt is locked in place just like it should be, with the rifle perfectly safe! Thanks so much everyone for their expert advice, and especially thanks to gunplummer for sharing your extensive knowledge of Arisakas with this Arisaka newbie.

Blindstitch · December 3, 2016, 12:41 AM

Sounds like progress to me. I hope you reload since it's hard to find the ammo on the shelf.

Gunplummer · December 3, 2016, 05:46 AM

OK. Good deal. I am takeing my T-38 converted to 6.5x55 out hunting this morning. Have a nice day.

moziyimorin · December 3, 2016, 09:05 AM

As funny as it might sound, this rifle has been converted to 6.5x55 as well. A wonderful round. It's available here at the local cabelas on the shelf, but no way would I find 6.5 jap anywhere but online. Thanks again everyone.

Gunplummer · December 3, 2016, 05:59 PM

There were two different twist rates in the 6.5's. I have to run 160 grain through my converted one to get any accuracy.

November 25, 2016, 12:12 AM	#1
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	Having issue with Arisaka safety I bought a Sporterized Arisaka a few months back. A pretty little gun actually. The previous owner put it in a nice walnut stock, the bolt is bent and it has a scope. The trigger is decent, and it still uses the original safety (which I think is neat). When I push in the safety knob and turn it clock wise the safety engages, however if I so much as touch the bolt the safety disengages. I have fiddled around with it for some time, and very (very) occasionally have been able to get it to function properly. I have disassembled it, inspected it, compared it (both the safety knob and the slot on the received it slides into) to multiple pictures of other Arisaka safeties and mine seems to look alright, yet still malfunctions. Any insight you good gentleman may have to offer would be very much appreciated. P.s. I did take it to a gun smith who was also unable to get it working properly.

November 25, 2016, 10:35 AM	#3
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	It is a type 38. I cleaned the slot it slides into real well, however I haven't taken the bolt apart and tried to clean that as deeply yet. I'll do that next. I thought maybe the firing pin spring is seizing up and needs replacing? I'll try and get some pictures up today as well. Last edited by moziyimorin; November 25, 2016 at 12:21 PM.

November 28, 2016, 11:26 AM	#7
doofus47 Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent Posts: 2,483	Do all the serial numbers match? __________________ I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.

November 29, 2016, 04:32 AM	#9
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	As-is, you need to stop shooting the rifle, until the problem is corrected. Malfunctioning Arisakas like to discharge on bolt-opening, which is a very, very bad thing. --- I'm not saying it's a lost cause, because it's not. A GOOD gunsmith with experience in Arisakas could probably correct the issue. But... Most modern "gunsmiths" have never touched an Arisaka and don't understand: A) how close-tolerance actions operate. B) how Arisakas work. C) how anything other than an AR-15 or Remington 700 can function, without just swapping "bad" parts for a stupidly-expensive aftermarket replacement. The modern "gunsmith" is an internet-dependent hack that has no understanding of 99% of firearms out there, let alone how to troubleshoot and repair them. If you can't figure out and correct the problem, then you need to get the rifle to a competent and qualified gunsmith; that can troubleshoot, identify, and correct the problem. If all else fails, send it to Summit Arms Services. They'll at least diagnose the problem, even if not repairable. (The owner is a member here, for the record.) __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe. Last edited by FrankenMauser; November 29, 2016 at 04:37 AM.

November 29, 2016, 05:45 PM	#12
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Find the problem before replacing parts. If there's a problem with the striker, a new trigger is not likely to make the rifle any safer. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

November 25, 2016, 12:28 AM	#2
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	It probably doesn't matter but what model is it? We have many people here who are very familiar with the Arisakas so someone should be along shortly. I had to go to the other room and check my Type 38 and it locks just fine. Any chance you can take some pictures of the safety knob. Might be a bit of grease or something inside the bolt causing a slight blockage.

November 26, 2016, 06:56 PM	#4
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	If you "So much as touch the bolt" and it disengages, it is not completely engaged. Look at the slot in the receiver that the stud under the safety knob rides in. When fully engaged, the safety has to be pushed forward to move back into the fire position. The 6.5's can be a little finicky when it comes to safety fit. Some are almost a hand fit situation. You may have a 99 safety and firing pin, and they do work. The first thing to check is the location of the stop on the bolt body that stops the safety rotation. If it is a little off, it will not let the safety fully engage. It could be a bent spring,or a very short spring, but usually not. Some of the firing pins were fully enclosed, even the slot area. Sometimes the little knob on the safety stud can get hung up in the slot because the slot is not broached wide enough. I would check the stop on the bolt. That is the most common problem with all the parts that were interchanged.

November 27, 2016, 11:19 PM	#5
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	I think your right. I have been trying to upload images but the firing line had not been letting me do it. How would I fix the stop on the bolt? It's difficult to know for sure without seeing it in action, but I can't see through the bolt I could open up the area the stud on the safety knob rides in as well. Would this be a good idea?

November 27, 2016, 11:21 PM	#6
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	But just to be sure we are talking about the same part, what do you mean by the stop on the bolt? Are you referring to the two notches cut out of the bolt body that the firing pin rides in?

November 28, 2016, 09:51 PM	#8
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	No I don't believe they do

November 29, 2016, 10:44 AM	#10
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	Yup, it is put away right now. I was never a fan of carrying a rifle that has no safety while I'm hunting in the field. I'm using my 30 06 this year, but would love to get the Arisaka up and running for next Nebraska deer season, hence me posting my question about it here.

November 29, 2016, 10:45 AM	#11
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	I always have the option of installing a Timney trigger with a side safety, but was hoping I could get the original safety operating correctly.

November 29, 2016, 06:16 PM	#13
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	The safety stop on the bolt : Hold the bolt with the face away from you and the bolt handle on the right, just as it is locked in the receiver. Near the rear of the bolt on the right hand side is a small protrusion. It is slightly below center. What this does is keep the bolt from opening when the safety is on. If it is a mismatched safety and bolt, this will sometimes stop the safety from rotating into the safe position completely. I keep forgetting it was sporterized. In this case it can be the trigger/sear. If someone removed too much metal from the sear to "Lighten" the trigger pull, it will for sure affect the safety operation. The F/pin turns with the safety and the sear must hold it back far enough for it to turn. If the F/pin spring was cut down to make the safety operate easier, that will affect it too. Check the screw coming up through the stock. It cannot stick up past the receiver very far. It is hard to tell with out seeing it operate, but that should keep you busy for a while.

November 30, 2016, 11:16 PM	#14
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	Gunplummer So, worked on the rifle a bit today. Opened up the slot the stud slides into. After working it, I can see that the stud slides over the screw hole when compressed without any problems and slides over fully, but then it does not push down into that slot. It just hangs there. It could be the bolt stop as well as the spring or trigger. I was thinking of ordering a new spring from wolf for a few bucks and seeing if that helps. How would you recommend approaching the bolt stop to see if I can get that to work?

December 1, 2016, 05:03 AM	#15
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	There is not much material there, but sometimes you can remove a little so the safety will turn more. The is a last step. Usually that does not cause problems unless there were parts interchanged. Look closely at the back of the sear when the bolt is out. It must be flush with the back of that machined area it sticks out of. The F/pin must be able to turn with the safety. There are not many parts. If you just think about where the parts are and what they are doing as they move, you can probably figure it out. It may well be the spring. A guy once brought me a 99 that he ground the front of the long stud on the safety down to make it easier to work. It then did not work at all. If you think about it, all that did was take a lot of tension off the spring.

December 1, 2016, 05:06 AM	#16
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	There is not much material there, but sometimes you can remove a little so the safety will turn more. The is a last step. Usually that does not cause problems unless there were parts interchanged. Look closely at the back of the sear when the bolt is out. It must be flush with the back of that machined area it sticks out of. The F/pin must be able to turn with the safety. There are not many parts. If you just think about where the parts are and what they are doing as they move, you can probably figure it out. It may well be the spring. A guy once brought me a 99 that he ground the front of the long stud on the safety down to make it easier to work. It then did not work at all. If you think about it, all that did was take a lot of tension off the spring. I just reread your post. You are saying the safety will not turn at all when you press it in?

December 1, 2016, 09:41 AM	#17
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	The safety turns fully, with the notch on the knob centered on the bolt in the safe position like it should be, and the stud is fully moved over to the left but the stud won't slide back and rest in the notch cut out for it in the receiver. That's why I thought the spring might not be decompressing. But it could just as easily be the bolt stop or even sear like you said.

December 1, 2016, 11:13 AM	#18
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	So my next question would be if the safety knob turns fully, would the bolt stop keep it from sliding back into that recess in the receiver?

December 2, 2016, 02:33 AM	#19
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	It will, but that would be an uncommon problem. That is what keeps the bolt from opening when in the safe position. There is very little play in the bolt when the safety is on. With just the F/pin and bolt in hand, the F/pin should drop into the bolt freely and turn freely into all positions. If it binds somewhere it will also cause a malfunction. This is IMPORTANT. Are you sure it is a T-38 bolt in there? A t-99 bolt will lock in, but the headspace will be about 1/8 inch off! Check some pictures on the net. The locking lugs on the 6.5 bolt are a lot different.

December 2, 2016, 08:37 PM	#20
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	After looking at multiple bolts for sale on gun broker of both 99s and 38s it looks like a 38. I compared the locking lugs and it is indeed a type 38. So there goes that possibility. I don't think it is the bolt stop, as the safety turns freely into position, but refuses to slide back into the safety notch. I ordered a new firing pin spring, and we will see if that changes things.

December 2, 2016, 10:58 PM	#21
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	Eureka! After taking the bolt out and just trying to fit the safety knob in by hand I realized that even with the knob centered it wasn't sliding back into that slot. But, if I turned it a tad more it slipped down in. So, out came the dremel and off came a sliver of metal from the bolt stop and the stud on the safety knob, and now it slides in every time, and the bollt is locked in place just like it should be, with the rifle perfectly safe! Thanks so much everyone for their expert advice, and especially thanks to gunplummer for sharing your extensive knowledge of Arisakas with this Arisaka newbie.

December 3, 2016, 12:41 AM	#22
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	Sounds like progress to me. I hope you reload since it's hard to find the ammo on the shelf.

December 3, 2016, 05:46 AM	#23
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	OK. Good deal. I am takeing my T-38 converted to 6.5x55 out hunting this morning. Have a nice day.

December 3, 2016, 09:05 AM	#24
moziyimorin Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2010 Posts: 14	As funny as it might sound, this rifle has been converted to 6.5x55 as well. A wonderful round. It's available here at the local cabelas on the shelf, but no way would I find 6.5 jap anywhere but online. Thanks again everyone. Last edited by moziyimorin; December 3, 2016 at 05:21 PM.

December 3, 2016, 05:59 PM	#25
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	There were two different twist rates in the 6.5's. I have to run 160 grain through my converted one to get any accuracy.