[Weird Situation] What would you do? - Page 2

jburtonpdx · April 5, 2005, 05:24 AM

In Soviet Ohio dog bites you when protecting it.

My jokes suck...

Any who, point is in Ohio I would have the option of cussing at them, shaking my fist, and giving them a very stern look. We dont have the "right" to protect our property with deadly force, we have to "trust" that the CRIMINAL is not breaking additional laws and does not have a weapon or that his 2 buddies wont beat the crap out of me.

So with the victim mentality required by the state I would have to call the police, who would respond with all the determination of stopping a dog thief in a place where the violent crime rate is very high and police budgets are very low that you would expect...

I do not blame the LEOs for this. They are doing the best then can with the tools given them... Oh except for the Ohio State troopers and the Governers office - they have demonstrated they would rather that the citizens of Ohio be victims.

Duxman · April 5, 2005, 11:33 AM

Nobody takes my dog. I would do the exact thing your friend did, although if my 12 ga is close I would take that over my handgun.

Cycling that 12 ga would probably make the BG think twice.

Indy7373 · April 5, 2005, 02:31 PM

If it came to that, I think I would do the same thing. However, I have two australian shepards (among others) who are extremely territorial and extremely protective of the family. If they see someone they don't know in the house, they will attack, quietly. (Found this out when my brothers drunk friend came stumbling in late at night. Fortunately for him, I was awake and able to call them off before he got more than a bad scare and a couple of scratches)

Rickstir · April 5, 2005, 05:10 PM

Why in the world would you lock up a Lab in a cage? THey are great family dogs. I have two and they don't loose the hunting instinct by becoming part of the family. Dogs are social pack animals. Locking them up in solitary confinement is cruel, and you friend shoud not have a dog under those circumstances. Why in the hell have a dog if you are going to chain it to a tree outback or keep it in cage?

9mmsnoopy · April 5, 2005, 06:31 PM

if the SOB had been shot and killed..... oh well. dont commit the crime and you wont get shot.

Double Naught Spy · April 5, 2005, 09:28 PM

TEA, you may wish to actually consult an attorney on lethal force use in Texas. You have some interesting views that don't seem to be very well supported by legal code.

MTNTHUNDER, your friend was extremely lucky.

While he did have some tactical advantage, he was lucky because of the tactical blunders he committed. First, he incorrectly assessed the situation and perceived there to be only one bad guy. Next, he grabbed a handgun and flashlight and ran out the front door to his porch. What is wrong there? Simple. He grabbed a pistol and not a long gun. Next, he left the cover of his home, certainly the concealment of his open, and moved himself out into the open.

Where he was really lucky was in that the extra actors were behind the guy with the dog, not out somewhere in front, acting as a lookout/spotter or additional safety. One or both of those two extra guys could have been out on the street, hidden behind foliage, or whatever, and simply shot your friend who was standing out in the open.

In short, your friend showed poor situational awareness and poor use of available cover, thereby exposing himself unnecessarily, and is lucky that it did not cost him his life.

**JohnKSa** · April 5, 2005, 10:08 PM

It is true that force is different from deadly force, but shooting someone is ALWAYS considered deadly force, even if you shoot to wound. There are no circumstances in which it is permissible to shoot a person if deadly force is not warranted.

38splfan · April 5, 2005, 10:09 PM

You can steal my wife if you must, but touching the dog or truck will earn you a bullet

Seriously though, I would have done nothing different, except maybe not ask more than once.
If he is in my yard, on my property, I have no reason to assume he is not a threat.
I would have spotlighted the guy, asked once, THEN presented the weapon. IF he did not drop the dog and either surrender or run away I would have fired under the presumption that if he is on my property he has more than a dog on his mind, like my wife and two month old son.

Funny, since Aiden was born, I have become much more protective and MUCH less tolerant.

April 5, 2005, 02:31 PM	#28
Indy7373 Junior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Posts: 10	If it came to that, I think I would do the same thing. However, I have two australian shepards (among others) who are extremely territorial and extremely protective of the family. If they see someone they don't know in the house, they will attack, quietly. (Found this out when my brothers drunk friend came stumbling in late at night. Fortunately for him, I was awake and able to call them off before he got more than a bad scare and a couple of scratches) __________________ Happiness is a warm gun. Molon Labe

April 5, 2005, 05:10 PM	#29
Rickstir Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2002 Location: Close on the Elk Fork of the Salt River Posts: 166	Why in the world would you lock up a Lab in a cage? THey are great family dogs. I have two and they don't loose the hunting instinct by becoming part of the family. Dogs are social pack animals. Locking them up in solitary confinement is cruel, and you friend shoud not have a dog under those circumstances. Why in the hell have a dog if you are going to chain it to a tree outback or keep it in cage? __________________ When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so at the end, you're the one who is smiling and everyone around you is crying.

April 5, 2005, 06:31 PM	#30
9mmsnoopy Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Thrillsville ,Tx Posts: 904	if the SOB had been shot and killed..... oh well. dont commit the crime and you wont get shot. __________________ beretta cx4 storm .40 caliber sig P290 Kahr PM9 Glock 26 Bushmaster AR15

April 5, 2005, 09:28 PM	#31
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	TEA, you may wish to actually consult an attorney on lethal force use in Texas. You have some interesting views that don't seem to be very well supported by legal code. MTNTHUNDER, your friend was extremely lucky. While he did have some tactical advantage, he was lucky because of the tactical blunders he committed. First, he incorrectly assessed the situation and perceived there to be only one bad guy. Next, he grabbed a handgun and flashlight and ran out the front door to his porch. What is wrong there? Simple. He grabbed a pistol and not a long gun. Next, he left the cover of his home, certainly the concealment of his open, and moved himself out into the open. Where he was really lucky was in that the extra actors were behind the guy with the dog, not out somewhere in front, acting as a lookout/spotter or additional safety. One or both of those two extra guys could have been out on the street, hidden behind foliage, or whatever, and simply shot your friend who was standing out in the open. In short, your friend showed poor situational awareness and poor use of available cover, thereby exposing himself unnecessarily, and is lucky that it did not cost him his life. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

April 5, 2005, 10:09 PM	#33
38splfan Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2004 Location: Ft. Lewis/Tacoma, WA. Posts: 1,034	Dogs and Trucks and Wives. You can steal my wife if you must, but touching the dog or truck will earn you a bullet Seriously though, I would have done nothing different, except maybe not ask more than once. If he is in my yard, on my property, I have no reason to assume he is not a threat. I would have spotlighted the guy, asked once, THEN presented the weapon. IF he did not drop the dog and either surrender or run away I would have fired under the presumption that if he is on my property he has more than a dog on his mind, like my wife and two month old son. Funny, since Aiden was born, I have become much more protective and MUCH less tolerant. __________________ "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others and I expect the same from them." - John Wayne

April 5, 2005, 05:24 AM	#26
jburtonpdx Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2005 Posts: 267	In Soviet Ohio dog bites you when protecting it. My jokes suck... Any who, point is in Ohio I would have the option of cussing at them, shaking my fist, and giving them a very stern look. We dont have the "right" to protect our property with deadly force, we have to "trust" that the CRIMINAL is not breaking additional laws and does not have a weapon or that his 2 buddies wont beat the crap out of me. So with the victim mentality required by the state I would have to call the police, who would respond with all the determination of stopping a dog thief in a place where the violent crime rate is very high and police budgets are very low that you would expect... I do not blame the LEOs for this. They are doing the best then can with the tools given them... Oh except for the Ohio State troopers and the Governers office - they have demonstrated they would rather that the citizens of Ohio be victims.

April 5, 2005, 11:33 AM	#27
Duxman Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2005 Location: VA Posts: 1,294	Nobody takes my dog. I would do the exact thing your friend did, although if my 12 ga is close I would take that over my handgun. Cycling that 12 ga would probably make the BG think twice.

April 5, 2005, 10:08 PM	#32
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	It is true that force is different from deadly force, but shooting someone is ALWAYS considered deadly force, even if you shoot to wound. There are no circumstances in which it is permissible to shoot a person if deadly force is not warranted.

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