Will Lanolin/Alcohol lube affect Gunpowder?

Machineguntony · March 31, 2014, 12:44 AM

I have been cranking out the rounds using a mix of pure liquid Lanolin and 99% alcohol. As many of you probably know, this is the same lube that many companies, like Dillon, sell, but self mixed for a fraction of the cost.

I noticed that the lube gets on the inside of the cases and then causes the gunpowder to clump. I dumped out a case, that had powder in it, and saw that some powder was stuck on the inside of the case. Obviously, the lube is getting on the inside of the case and mixing with the gunpowder. My question is will this affect the gunpowder/charge?

I am using 99% alcohol, so I am not worried about water in the mix, but I'm a little worried the Lanolin may affect the gunpowder. Any thoughts, data, or tests that someone can reference?

Thanks.

wogpotter · March 31, 2014, 07:14 AM

I've been using exactly the same mix for decades & thousands of rounds without any problem. I'd quit worrying about it as its more theory than practice IMO.

Jim Watson · March 31, 2014, 07:25 AM

I have seen that on spray lubed pistol brass, but never saw any affect on the shooting by chronograph or gun function.

243winxb · March 31, 2014, 10:33 AM

" Spray your accuracy away " Just my personal feeling.

F. Guffey · March 31, 2014, 10:35 AM

Quote:

I have been cranking out the rounds using a mix of pure liquid Lanolin and 99% alcohol. As many of you probably know,

What do I know and when did I know it?

Jack O'Conner was the author of a book back in 1954, in one of his books he wrote about his hands, they hurt. He also wrote about sizing cases and lube, he said he used lanolin (and nothing), he said he keep lanolin on his hands and used it when sizing cases.

In my dealings with manufacturers I had one company promise me if their lube did not help they guaranteed me it would not damage. I decided If Jack O'Conner could use lanolin I could find something that would not cake if not removed after sizing. I found a few lubes that worked better than any lube on a reloaders list of approved lubes.

Question: I have helped others form cases for wildcat chambers, I have had no luck with the 'tuff' cases when using Imperial and or Dillon in a bottle or can, when experiencing failure to form cases no one questions the lube, WHY?

Before I load a sized case I tumble with media and nothing, Is the OP loading cases without tumbling, or is his tumbling media failing him?

add to: pure lanolin? 99% alcohol, sounds/looks like pure alcohol with a hint of lanolin.

F. Guffey

Jim Watson · March 31, 2014, 10:39 AM

Quote:

I found a few lubes that worked better than any lube on a reloaders list of approved lubes.

Secret and proprietary to Guffey Industries?

wogpotter · March 31, 2014, 11:16 AM

The alcohol is just a carrier to allow the lanolin to be sprayed. If you read the instructions with most alcohol/lanolin mixes they say to wait 5 minutes.

Why? well to allow the alcohol to evaporate, leaving just lanolin behind.

So this begs the question "Whats the difference between lanolin & lanolin"?
Nothing, nada, bubpkiss, diddly squat.

Machineguntony · March 31, 2014, 12:15 PM

I read that it is important to use 99% alcohol, rather than the 97% because the water in the 97% can affect the gunpowder. With the 97% or the 91% alcohol, you're supposed to let it dry so that the water or moisture can evaporate. The 99% evaporates almost instantly. I am more concerned about the clumping, which is probably happening as a result of the lanolin.

243winxb · March 31, 2014, 02:16 PM

Flash Point: 68 C http://www.lanotec.com.au/pdf/MSD%20...0Sept%2010.pdf A nice glob mixed with the powder may let you break the 4000 fps barrier.

wogpotter · March 31, 2014, 03:31 PM

With lanolin yes. But some have used other lubricants & found they need a little water do dissolve, unlike lanolin which is soluble in alcohol. If you do use an alternate lube & the 97% just wait a little longer for the water to evaporate as well.

WIL TERRY · April 1, 2014, 12:32 PM

IT seems to me you are doing something wrong if the lube is getting inside the case. IT DOES NOT belong there and I would make dang sure it never got there. What I cannot imagine is how it gets there !!

F. Guffey · April 1, 2014, 01:52 PM

Will Terry, I tried that route, I tumble after sizing, I use media and nothing. Nothing like doing it instead of talking it to death. If he tumbled and he had lube in the neck he could have a case full of tumbling media.

And then there is that 99% thing, I am going to assume he is not using 1% lanolin and 99% Alcohol, again, Jack O'Conner used lanolin and nothing, from his hand to the case straight to the die, must be something wrong with that alcohol.

Water, the problem did not exist until something was added something that was not needed. Back to tumbling, if I do not use tumbling media to remove the lube like lanolin it cakes when it dries. I am the fan of tumbling.

F. Guffey

Magnum Wheel Man · April 1, 2014, 02:11 PM

well... I just pulled a bunch of bullets on 250 - 44 American Bulldog cartridges... most were filled with black powder, mixed in, maybe 10% were filled with smokeless pistol powder... I have no idea how the cases were prepped & loaded ( which is why I pulled them down ) on the black powder cases, all were clumped together, & severely stuck to the case walls, on the smokeless powder loads, the cases were clean as new... there was no difference in the bullet lubes, all tumble lubed, since these were heal seated bullets...

I assume they were all loaded by the same person, but I don't know if they were loaded at the same time, & with the same method...

I do know, the on really tough to form cases, I have a lube pad with STP oil treatment on it ( at the suggestion of my retired tool & die buddy ) & the stuff works great, even on severely abused & lacquered cases of the 5.7 X 28...

I've started wet tumbling, with stainless pins, & always use a universal decapping die to knock out the spent primer, tumble & dry, to remove any abrasives, then size the case, if it's a case that needs lubing ( non Carbide dies ) I wet tumble a 2nd time to remove any lube residue, before reloading...

system works for me... YMMV

Machineguntony · April 1, 2014, 04:11 PM

It is an 8:1 ratio. 8 parts 99% alcohol, and one part liquid lanolin. It is the same formula used by most lanolin based sellers. The reason it gets in the case is because the I put the cases in a sandwich bag, and then spray them, and then massage them.

I understand it would be better to line the cases up and then spray them, but when I'm loading 1,000-10,000 rounds, I am not inclined to line up 1,000-10,000 cases. Many people use the sandwich bag method, from what I 've read. So my question wasn't "am I doing it the right way?", rather my question is will the lube affect the gunpowder charge.

For those who gave input, many thanks.

schmellba99 · April 1, 2014, 04:51 PM

I use the Dillon case lube for rifle cases. Lay the cases out on a cookie sheet I commandeered from the wife's kitchen, give a few sprays and then shake the sheet around a bit to get the brass to roll around. Helps the lube distribute more evenly on the cases.

Some gets in the case.

I let it sit for about 5 minutes, then start loading.

Multiple thousands of rounds later, on both pistol (but I generally use One Shot on pistol) and rifle, no issues with performance.

A good case lube should be designed so that it does not impede powder burn if it gets on the inside of the case, because it is inevitable that you will get some on the inside of the case at some point. Even if you are the most careful person in the world, it's simply going to happen. Hell, the oils from your hands will migrate into the case necks simply from handling.

March 31, 2014, 12:44 AM	#1
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Will Lanolin/Alcohol lube affect Gunpowder? I have been cranking out the rounds using a mix of pure liquid Lanolin and 99% alcohol. As many of you probably know, this is the same lube that many companies, like Dillon, sell, but self mixed for a fraction of the cost. I noticed that the lube gets on the inside of the cases and then causes the gunpowder to clump. I dumped out a case, that had powder in it, and saw that some powder was stuck on the inside of the case. Obviously, the lube is getting on the inside of the case and mixing with the gunpowder. My question is will this affect the gunpowder/charge? I am using 99% alcohol, so I am not worried about water in the mix, but I'm a little worried the Lanolin may affect the gunpowder. Any thoughts, data, or tests that someone can reference? Thanks. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

March 31, 2014, 07:14 AM	#2
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	I've been using exactly the same mix for decades & thousands of rounds without any problem. I'd quit worrying about it as its more theory than practice IMO. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

March 31, 2014, 11:16 AM	#7
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	The alcohol is just a carrier to allow the lanolin to be sprayed. If you read the instructions with most alcohol/lanolin mixes they say to wait 5 minutes. Why? well to allow the alcohol to evaporate, leaving just lanolin behind. So this begs the question "Whats the difference between lanolin & lanolin"? Nothing, nada, bubpkiss, diddly squat. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

March 31, 2014, 12:15 PM	#8
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	I read that it is important to use 99% alcohol, rather than the 97% because the water in the 97% can affect the gunpowder. With the 97% or the 91% alcohol, you're supposed to let it dry so that the water or moisture can evaporate. The 99% evaporates almost instantly. I am more concerned about the clumping, which is probably happening as a result of the lanolin. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

March 31, 2014, 02:16 PM	#9
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Lanolin MSDS Flash Point: 68 C http://www.lanotec.com.au/pdf/MSD%20...0Sept%2010.pdf A nice glob mixed with the powder may let you break the 4000 fps barrier.

March 31, 2014, 07:25 AM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I have seen that on spray lubed pistol brass, but never saw any affect on the shooting by chronograph or gun function.

March 31, 2014, 10:33 AM	#4
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	" Spray your accuracy away " Just my personal feeling.

March 31, 2014, 03:31 PM	#10
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	With lanolin yes. But some have used other lubricants & found they need a little water do dissolve, unlike lanolin which is soluble in alcohol. If you do use an alternate lube & the 97% just wait a little longer for the water to evaporate as well. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

April 1, 2014, 12:32 PM	#11
WIL TERRY Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2000 Location: BLACK HILLS Posts: 1,322	IT seems to me you are doing something wrong if the lube is getting inside the case. IT DOES NOT belong there and I would make dang sure it never got there. What I cannot imagine is how it gets there !!

April 1, 2014, 01:52 PM	#12
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Will Terry, I tried that route, I tumble after sizing, I use media and nothing. Nothing like doing it instead of talking it to death. If he tumbled and he had lube in the neck he could have a case full of tumbling media. And then there is that 99% thing, I am going to assume he is not using 1% lanolin and 99% Alcohol, again, Jack O'Conner used lanolin and nothing, from his hand to the case straight to the die, must be something wrong with that alcohol. Water, the problem did not exist until something was added something that was not needed. Back to tumbling, if I do not use tumbling media to remove the lube like lanolin it cakes when it dries. I am the fan of tumbling. F. Guffey

April 1, 2014, 02:11 PM	#13
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	well... I just pulled a bunch of bullets on 250 - 44 American Bulldog cartridges... most were filled with black powder, mixed in, maybe 10% were filled with smokeless pistol powder... I have no idea how the cases were prepped & loaded ( which is why I pulled them down ) on the black powder cases, all were clumped together, & severely stuck to the case walls, on the smokeless powder loads, the cases were clean as new... there was no difference in the bullet lubes, all tumble lubed, since these were heal seated bullets... I assume they were all loaded by the same person, but I don't know if they were loaded at the same time, & with the same method... I do know, the on really tough to form cases, I have a lube pad with STP oil treatment on it ( at the suggestion of my retired tool & die buddy ) & the stuff works great, even on severely abused & lacquered cases of the 5.7 X 28... I've started wet tumbling, with stainless pins, & always use a universal decapping die to knock out the spent primer, tumble & dry, to remove any abrasives, then size the case, if it's a case that needs lubing ( non Carbide dies ) I wet tumble a 2nd time to remove any lube residue, before reloading... system works for me... YMMV __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 1, 2014, 04:11 PM	#14
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	It is an 8:1 ratio. 8 parts 99% alcohol, and one part liquid lanolin. It is the same formula used by most lanolin based sellers. The reason it gets in the case is because the I put the cases in a sandwich bag, and then spray them, and then massage them. I understand it would be better to line the cases up and then spray them, but when I'm loading 1,000-10,000 rounds, I am not inclined to line up 1,000-10,000 cases. Many people use the sandwich bag method, from what I 've read. So my question wasn't "am I doing it the right way?", rather my question is will the lube affect the gunpowder charge. For those who gave input, many thanks. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

April 1, 2014, 04:51 PM	#15
schmellba99 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 803	I use the Dillon case lube for rifle cases. Lay the cases out on a cookie sheet I commandeered from the wife's kitchen, give a few sprays and then shake the sheet around a bit to get the brass to roll around. Helps the lube distribute more evenly on the cases. Some gets in the case. I let it sit for about 5 minutes, then start loading. Multiple thousands of rounds later, on both pistol (but I generally use One Shot on pistol) and rifle, no issues with performance. A good case lube should be designed so that it does not impede powder burn if it gets on the inside of the case, because it is inevitable that you will get some on the inside of the case at some point. Even if you are the most careful person in the world, it's simply going to happen. Hell, the oils from your hands will migrate into the case necks simply from handling.