Youth or "Full Size" rifle for my son? - Page 2

T. O'Heir · July 23, 2014, 12:47 PM

Please reduce the size of your pictures. Causes very slow page loading for dial up users.
His size doesn't matter for recoil. The cartridge doesn't much either. If a bolt action .308 or .243, etc. recoil bothers him, look into a semi-auto. Magazines do not have to be full. Not that it's likely be an issue for your son. If he's responsible enough to hunt in the first place.
"...Can't bring myself to replace the Black Walnut wood..." A recoil pad and some spacers will make that issue go away without costing a fortune.

9x19 · July 24, 2014, 12:47 AM

Go with the youth model... you can probably find a take-off adult stock cheap if Boyds is making a replacement.

As for long stocks on short guns being "un-serviceable"... phooey!

I find short barrels to be better in the field... never really wished for a shorter stock, but cussed at a few 22" and 24" barrels.

Chuck Dye · July 24, 2014, 06:34 PM

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Howa-...bo/1367661.uts

The memory that sent me on my cursory search is of wooden stocks. /you may want to do a more thorough search for such combos.

precision_shooter · August 6, 2014, 02:45 PM

I ended up picking up a Mossberg MVP Patrol rifle in .223 with 16in barrel. It has about the right LOP for my son, but not too short for me to use comfortably. .223 is plenty of power for the small texas whitetail that we have using 60gr SP bullets.

I also picked up a Leupold VX-1 2-7x33 and mounted it with Warne steel rings. Should make a nice deer/woods rifle for him/me.

9x19 · August 6, 2014, 10:40 PM

Sounds like a nice rig... now to get HIM some trigger time.

10-96 · August 7, 2014, 12:50 AM

Sounds like that Mossberg was a good choice. How's the young'ns excitement level?

precision_shooter · August 7, 2014, 07:33 AM

We took it out to the "Huntin Land" last weekend before I got the scope and shot with open sights. I shot about 8 rounds to get the sights on at 50yds. Then set him up at about 30yds with bipod to get him some trigger time and training with open sights. He put about 20 rounds through it, with acceptable minute of deer accuracy after he got accustomed to where to hold the sights and proper sight picture.
Next is to sight in the scope and get him more trigger time/training.

He is very excited about the rifle, was excited to help/learn how to clean it when we got home, and said "I'm going to take really good care of my rifle". He wipes it down any time it gets handled and has to be the one to put it back in the gun closet.

He also shot a couple 22 pistols, my G42 380, and SP101 with some mild .38 special loads. He had a good time and so did I!

Panfisher · August 7, 2014, 10:01 AM

AWESOME!!

reynolds357 · August 10, 2014, 10:48 PM

Should be a good first rifle.

Picher · August 11, 2014, 06:27 AM

Great job Precision Shooter. You could use a slip-on pad for using the rifle yourself.

For others, I recommend buying a used rifle, especially as a first-rifle, .22LR.

I bought a cheap, full-length, Rem 581 about 35 years ago for my son. I then drilled a half-inch hole in the center of the buttstock, about 3" deep, then two long, countersunk holes for long wood screws. Then, I cut the stock to the right length for him.

I glued a piece of 1/2" dowel in the hole I drilled in the cut-off piece. The piece could then be re-attached, so I could use the rifle at any time. It worked great!

hvymax · August 11, 2014, 07:14 AM

I put Knoxx adjustable stocks on many of my guns. That way they fit everyone from 5yr olds to 6'5" me. Also wardrobe changes are no problem either. T shirt to bundled for below zero in a stand is a quick adjustment to compensate.

precision_shooter · August 11, 2014, 07:18 AM

Thinking he needs a .22 bolt action for Christmas, maybe early present! Easier on my wallet and good practice for him on marksmanship and fundamentals.

horselips · August 12, 2014, 10:27 PM

Get Boy Wonder an AR15 with a .243 upper. The adjustable stock will accommodate any size shooter from child to adult. As he grows up and older, he can add different caliber uppers and appropriate optics to suit his growing experience, needs and wants. The flexibility, versatility, and overall general usefulness of the AR platform is unsurpassed, and as low as prices have fallen for these rifles, why mess around with anything else?

I was 12 when Dear Ol' Dad bought me my first rifle. He suggested a .22LR, I said screw that, we went to our favorite gun store and I picked out a gorgeous, unissued-looking Enfield No.5 MK I Jungle Carbine. All of $45. Of course, that was half a century ago. Surplus .303 British ammo was about 8 cents a round. Those were the days.

precision_shooter · August 13, 2014, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Get Boy Wonder an AR15 with a .243 upper. The adjustable stock will accommodate any size shooter from child to adult. As he grows up and older, he can add different caliber uppers and appropriate optics to suit his growing experience, needs and wants. The flexibility, versatility, and overall general usefulness of the AR platform is unsurpassed, and as low as prices have fallen for these rifles, why mess around with anything else?

Problem with that is the .243 chambered uppers can only fit on a AR-10/LR-308 lower, not the AR-15, and the prices of the .308 pattern guns have not really come down that much. Still well over $1,000 for rifle alone (for a good one at least...).

horselips · August 14, 2014, 07:14 PM

Prices for quality 7.62 AR platforms have dropped quite a bit more than you think - behold - today on Gunbroker: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=434779090 - sold for $775.75. Other listings offer the same rifle for a little over 8 bills. The deals are out there.

jimbob86 · August 14, 2014, 07:28 PM

Quote:

He is 4'11" or so and weighs 74lbs soaking wet.

Recoil will be an issue.

Stock fit, rifle weight and the energy going out the muzzle will all play a role in perceived recoil.

A stock that fits, with a sight (glass or iron) system that allows a good cheek weld, are important.

Youth guns are great ...... except the flimsy plastic stocks most of them come with weigh almost nothing, contributing to more recoil .....

A good youth gun needs to be short enough to fit the youth, heavy as the kid can handle, and loaded so as not to beat them up ...... if you handload, caliber chosen is nigh irrelavent- most chamberings can be downloaded for begginners ...... however, choosing one too small for future uses can't be so easily fixed.

My solution for a kids' gun was a Ruger Frontier in 7-08 ...... downloaded to 30-30 levels to start with. Works well enough that they argue over it.

Picher · August 20, 2014, 08:44 AM

I see that Hornady is making their fine GMX solid-gilding metal hunting bullet in .224 now, a 55 grain. That may be an excellent deer bullet for Texas whitetails, especially if the twist rate is 1:12" or higher.

Original bullet weight isn't as important as retained weight. The ones I've used in other calibers retain nearly 100% of their original weight, yet expanded fully.

July 23, 2014, 12:47 PM	#26
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Please reduce the size of your pictures. Causes very slow page loading for dial up users. His size doesn't matter for recoil. The cartridge doesn't much either. If a bolt action .308 or .243, etc. recoil bothers him, look into a semi-auto. Magazines do not have to be full. Not that it's likely be an issue for your son. If he's responsible enough to hunt in the first place. "...Can't bring myself to replace the Black Walnut wood..." A recoil pad and some spacers will make that issue go away without costing a fortune. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 24, 2014, 12:47 AM	#27
9x19 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Sherman, TX USA Posts: 3,750	Go with the youth model... you can probably find a take-off adult stock cheap if Boyds is making a replacement. As for long stocks on short guns being "un-serviceable"... phooey! I find short barrels to be better in the field... never really wished for a shorter stock, but cussed at a few 22" and 24" barrels. __________________ Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

July 24, 2014, 06:34 PM	#28
Chuck Dye Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2002 Location: Oregon-The wet side. Posts: 949	http://www.cabelas.com/product/Howa-...bo/1367661.uts The memory that sent me on my cursory search is of wooden stocks. /you may want to do a more thorough search for such combos. __________________ Gee, I'd love to see your data!

August 6, 2014, 02:45 PM	#29
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	I ended up picking up a Mossberg MVP Patrol rifle in .223 with 16in barrel. It has about the right LOP for my son, but not too short for me to use comfortably. .223 is plenty of power for the small texas whitetail that we have using 60gr SP bullets. I also picked up a Leupold VX-1 2-7x33 and mounted it with Warne steel rings. Should make a nice deer/woods rifle for him/me. __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

August 6, 2014, 10:40 PM	#30
9x19 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Sherman, TX USA Posts: 3,750	Sounds like a nice rig... now to get HIM some trigger time. __________________ Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

August 7, 2014, 12:50 AM	#31
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,160	Sounds like that Mossberg was a good choice. How's the young'ns excitement level? __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

August 7, 2014, 07:33 AM	#32
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	We took it out to the "Huntin Land" last weekend before I got the scope and shot with open sights. I shot about 8 rounds to get the sights on at 50yds. Then set him up at about 30yds with bipod to get him some trigger time and training with open sights. He put about 20 rounds through it, with acceptable minute of deer accuracy after he got accustomed to where to hold the sights and proper sight picture. Next is to sight in the scope and get him more trigger time/training. He is very excited about the rifle, was excited to help/learn how to clean it when we got home, and said "I'm going to take really good care of my rifle". He wipes it down any time it gets handled and has to be the one to put it back in the gun closet. He also shot a couple 22 pistols, my G42 380, and SP101 with some mild .38 special loads. He had a good time and so did I! __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

August 7, 2014, 10:01 AM	#33
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	AWESOME!!

August 10, 2014, 10:48 PM	#34
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Should be a good first rifle.

August 11, 2014, 06:27 AM	#35
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	Great job Precision Shooter. You could use a slip-on pad for using the rifle yourself. For others, I recommend buying a used rifle, especially as a first-rifle, .22LR. I bought a cheap, full-length, Rem 581 about 35 years ago for my son. I then drilled a half-inch hole in the center of the buttstock, about 3" deep, then two long, countersunk holes for long wood screws. Then, I cut the stock to the right length for him. I glued a piece of 1/2" dowel in the hole I drilled in the cut-off piece. The piece could then be re-attached, so I could use the rifle at any time. It worked great!

August 11, 2014, 07:14 AM	#36
hvymax Junior member Join Date: August 7, 2014 Location: La Plata Md Posts: 57	I put Knoxx adjustable stocks on many of my guns. That way they fit everyone from 5yr olds to 6'5" me. Also wardrobe changes are no problem either. T shirt to bundled for below zero in a stand is a quick adjustment to compensate.

August 11, 2014, 07:18 AM	#37
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	Thinking he needs a .22 bolt action for Christmas, maybe early present! Easier on my wallet and good practice for him on marksmanship and fundamentals. __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

August 12, 2014, 10:27 PM	#38
horselips Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Posts: 159	Get Boy Wonder an AR15 with a .243 upper. The adjustable stock will accommodate any size shooter from child to adult. As he grows up and older, he can add different caliber uppers and appropriate optics to suit his growing experience, needs and wants. The flexibility, versatility, and overall general usefulness of the AR platform is unsurpassed, and as low as prices have fallen for these rifles, why mess around with anything else? I was 12 when Dear Ol' Dad bought me my first rifle. He suggested a .22LR, I said screw that, we went to our favorite gun store and I picked out a gorgeous, unissued-looking Enfield No.5 MK I Jungle Carbine. All of $45. Of course, that was half a century ago. Surplus .303 British ammo was about 8 cents a round. Those were the days. Last edited by horselips; August 12, 2014 at 10:33 PM.

August 14, 2014, 07:14 PM	#40
horselips Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Posts: 159	Prices for quality 7.62 AR platforms have dropped quite a bit more than you think - behold - today on Gunbroker: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=434779090 - sold for $775.75. Other listings offer the same rifle for a little over 8 bills. The deals are out there.

August 20, 2014, 08:44 AM	#42
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	I see that Hornady is making their fine GMX solid-gilding metal hunting bullet in .224 now, a 55 grain. That may be an excellent deer bullet for Texas whitetails, especially if the twist rate is 1:12" or higher. Original bullet weight isn't as important as retained weight. The ones I've used in other calibers retain nearly 100% of their original weight, yet expanded fully.