For all the Taurus bashers out there. - Page 4

tahunua001 · October 23, 2012, 07:46 PM

Quote:

2000 rounds IS NOT a torture test.... it's more of a break in if anything. I have shot that much ammo through one of my guns in a weekend. Ammo isn't cheap.. I know this... and we all can't afford to shoot as much as I or some others do.

However.. thinking it is torturing a gun to fire 2000 rounds is flawed logic.. they are designed to exceed that.. by 10's of thousands. Unfortunately a lot of the cheaper mad guns made today... really are pushing to go 5000 rounds with out any issues.

I don't care what the gun says on the side.. a reliable gun.. is a reliable gun... it is only reliable up until something breaks and its no longer reliable until repaired.... GENERALLY SPEAKING.... meaning OBVIOUSLY there are exceptions.... A Taurus... will reach that breaking point sooner. Sorry if it offends you... but I can almost assure you of it.

I work in a gun shop / gun smith shop. Our number one returned for warranty work brand is.. you guessed it.. Taurus. Sure.. I have seen EVERYTHING get returned.. more than once... Sig.. H&K... Colt.... $2500 custom made 1911's you name it. The difference is I get a lot more Taurus's returned more frequently... and have even sent brand new store owned guns back to them because of how rough they came from the factory.

I will personally never recommend a Taurus to a customer for anything other than a range toy. You can get a great used gun for self defense at about the same price, ones with much better track records.

I will stand by my post in the first start of this thread and ask how can one think it is a step in the right direction when you had to return both of your Taurus's for issues? To me that would be unacceptable.

um... generally torture tests involve a little more than just firing a ton of ammo through them. most that I have seen are based on the "1,000 round glock torture test" where the gun is completely cleaned of all lube, submerged in water, filled with sand, dunked in mud, frozen solid and sometimes being run over by some sort of vehicle.

I would say that those actions are pretty much the definition of a torture test. no gun is designed to operate in those conditions no matter the round count.

Tactical Jackalope · October 23, 2012, 10:53 PM

Yeah. I "torture tested" my SIG P226 with 5,000 rounds already

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Justice06RR · October 24, 2012, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKFan9

So your bragging that you had to ship back two firearms? From the same manufacturer none the less.

I would not consider this a step in the right direction my friend, I have never sent any of my guns back... because none of them are Taurus.

I work in a gun smith shop.... I can tell you some pretty scary statistics on guns that get returned to us, Taurus being number one... but hey... least they keep us busy shipping and receiving them. Our smith's wont even touch em.

I hope you are not just saying this because you are a fan of HK, obviously.

Other high-priced or "quality" manufacturers like S&W, SA, Kimber, Glock

will still have issues and defects, but probably not as much. The lower end brands like Keltec or Taurus will understandably have a higher volume of defects--given the cheap price.

But it is undeniable that Taurus CS and product quality have steadily been getting better. Not perfect by any means, but improved. I have owned (and sold) two Taurus semiautos in the past that have been flawless. I've also had first-hand issues with Glocks or M&P's.

some of us also have never sent back our "low-end" pistols. Why? because they work just like your high-dollar guns.

StainlessSteel215 · October 24, 2012, 06:19 AM

No, Im not going to subject any of my guns to that type of abuse so I probably shouldnt have included the words "TORTURE TEST"....its simply a 2k round performance test. but any gun that fires 2k rounds without a single cleaning so you can note its performance is worthy by any means.

dwhite · October 24, 2012, 06:19 AM

I think Taurus is coming to the realization that they've lost a lot of their dealers. Around here I can't think of any gun store I frequent that sells Taurus handguns unless they're used and have been traded in. I just got a 24/7 Pro C used from one.

Trying to win military contracts with the level of service and stories of bad reliability they have is a futile endeavor. They have to improve their image.

I think Taurus has made so many models over the years they have a hard time keeping parts on hand which contributes to poor service turn around. I wonder how many parts are interchangeable between models for everything they've produced in the past 10 years? How many Glock parts are interchangeable?

There's a lot of Smith and Wesson, Glock, Beretta, Colt banners hanging in gun stores. It's been a LONG time since I've seen a Taurus banner proudly displayed.

So far the 24/7 I got is o'kay. I had to fix the magwell to keep the magazine from falling out but it's 100% now. Glad I bought it.

They're a good company. They build a nice product at a good price. They need to work on the quality though.

All the Best,
D. White

Gaerek · October 24, 2012, 10:02 AM

I know the gun store I frequent the most has a few Taurus's in the case, but anytime anyone asks to look at one, the sales person always (at least the dozen or so times I've seen it happen) tells them they have more issues with Taurus than any other gun they sell. They then show the person equivalent options that are rarely more than 10 or 15% more that are far more reliable. I asked one of the guys there why they turn people away from a potential sale and he said that, by volume, they sell fewer Taurus than any of the other big brands, yet, by far, more people bring Taurus's in for work because they aren't working properly. Most of the sales people are hoping they can just stop selling them, but the owner apparently wants people to have options and doesn't want to stop selling them. Also, they get a lot of extra money from fixing them. :P

michael t · October 24, 2012, 07:33 PM

I sent mine in Light firing pin strikes . was almost 6 weeks came back

work performed POLISHED THE FEED RAMP

Still had lite strikes Went back 2 nd time from dealer and returned still lite strikes . Dealer took back on trade and I bought a different brand .

My older PT-92 has been a good pistol so guess not all bad .

whiskyrunner · October 24, 2012, 08:37 PM

I own 3 pistols, a ruger lcp, (4 years old) a kimber ultra carry (2 years old), and a pt111 taurus, have probably put 7500 rounds through the taurus in the past 12 years and its preformed flawlessly with 1 caveat, even locked in a vise it wont hit a 3 foot square piece of paper at 15 feet, its reliable as an anvill no matter what you feed it, it will chamber and fire, without question,every time, but dont try and shoot anything with it, because you simply WONT hit it

Cliff.J. · October 24, 2012, 08:47 PM

...and buy a Colt

tahunua001 · October 24, 2012, 08:50 PM

excellent post, ^^^^
no need to offer any amplifying information, personal experience or postings just...buy a Colt....

glad to have you aboard MR...uh...Cliff.

Doug S · October 25, 2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

I think there's some truth to this. As much as people who own expensive guns sometimes lord it over those who do not, equally as often if not more so people with cheap guns deride owners of expensive guns for wasting money. Common phrases in such posts include "This $400 X-brand gun did everything the $650 Y-brand gun could do" and "I don't need to spend [amount] extra for a brand name."

This isn't a guns-only issue. I think it's a common issue in cars, watches, and stereo equipment, too. The BMW owner thinks the Honda owner settled for average, the Honda owner things the BMW owner is full of himself and bought an unnecessarily expensive car. The Rolex owner thinks the Seiko owner classless and the Seiko owner thinks the Rolex-owner a brand slave.

We'd all be better off to just acknowledge the actual truth of the matter. We all can't afford the nicest things. Sometimes the nicest things aren't measurably any better than cheaper things, but on the flip side of that, sometimes the cheaper things fail where the nicest things do not.

The core issue is both Taurus owners and higher-end owners associating self-image with their brand.

For me, I only care if guns work. They're a lifesaving tool. If the three Taurus firearms my family owned had functioned, I would own a stable full of them. Since they didn't, they were discarded. We can only make the best choices for us with the best information we have at the time.

I couldn't agree more, or have said it better myself. I've been attacked more than once for honestly sharing my negative experiences with Taurus guns. My experience with Taurus mirrors yours, except I was dumb enough to buy a bit more than 3 before figuring things out. Although...I do like my Honda very much.

LockedBreech · October 25, 2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug S

Although...I do like my Honda very much.

Me too.

My Accord has been completely flawless for almost 9 years.

Doug S · October 25, 2012, 03:58 PM

LockedBreech,

My experience with the Accord has likewise been very good. Currently I'm enjoying my Element...same engine as the Accord.

Tactical Jackalope · October 25, 2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Me too. My Accord has been completely flawless for almost 9 years.

Wow 9 year torture test!

Doug S · October 25, 2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Wow 9 year torture test!

That's just a "break-in" period for a Honda. If the Japanese built handguns like they do cars, I'd have to give em a try. Maybe Taurus should consider consulting with them.

LockedBreech · October 25, 2012, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug S

That's just a "break-in" period for a Honda. If the Japanese built handguns like they do cars, I'd have to give em a try Maybe Taurus should consider consulting with them.

Now there's a thought. Apparently the Japan-built Marlin rifles are well made.

Tactical Jackalope · October 25, 2012, 04:08 PM

I'll stick to my Ford Mustang GT

Had a Honda way back when. Thing didn't die. My plan was to "run it into the ground". It fought back. So I sold it.

Doug S · October 25, 2012, 04:14 PM

This forum needs a "like" button...

"like"

reaganmarine84 · October 25, 2012, 10:13 PM

Checking in on my own post. I own 8 Taurus pistols and have a 709 in lay-away right now. Allow me to expand a few details to my original post.

The 809:the problem I was experiencing was a failure to return to battery after achieving slide lock and using the overhand-slingshot method after inserting a fresh,loaded magazine. Pressing the slide catch release still worked to return the gun into battery. Solution:the sent me 2 new mags. problem solved. How many of you guys out there have NEVER,EVER had a problematic or finicky factory mag? That's common for literally any manufactuer. Taurus could have told me to go and buy my own,but they just gave me 2 new ones. Not so bad.

The 738:Problem #1 was actually my fault. I demolished the take-down pin while disassembling the gun for cleaning. #2 the slide catch would not always capture the slide and hold open after the last round was fired. Taurus replaced the slide catch and replaced the take down pin with a new one,which actually is easier to work with than the orignal pin the gun came with. The original pin was SUPER tight to get in and out of the frame. The new pin is much easier to manipulate.

Those are somewhat minor issues to me guys. But hey,everyone is different in their definition of what is or is not a MINOR issue.

Continue bashing.

HKFan9 · October 25, 2012, 11:28 PM

It's not bashing.... its just simply statistics... If you want to visit me in PA we can pull up every gunsmith service order I have and narrow it down by brand if you would like.. the computer goes back 11 years if I remember correctly.

Yes I am a fan of H&K.. my name is inspired by the design of the H&K P7 which I absolutely love. Far from a perfect gun, but unique, and if you have ever shot one, it does it's job well.

However I am not just some pure HK fan boy... in fact since I recently sold my last P7.. I don't even own an HK.

I carry mostly 1911's anyways... and own a ton of others... Even still the CZ=75B I bought used for $300 is probably one of the most accurate stock guns I own.

There is my point... I have an excellently crafted and reliable gun... Yet I only paid $300 for it.... two mags.. and a case. You can get better used guns for the same price as a Taurus.. and be able to sleep a little easier.

reaganmarine84 · October 26, 2012, 03:33 PM

dude. I sleep fine. stop projecting.

Skadoosh · October 26, 2012, 05:05 PM

Quote:

dude. I sleep fine. stop projecting.

None so blind as those that will not see.

Yung.gunr · October 26, 2012, 06:09 PM

Oh my gosh this thing is still going??...

FFournier · October 26, 2012, 07:38 PM

These guys I know decided to have a Hi Point Taurus shoot out. And as soon as the guns get back from being "fixed", it's on...lol

**Mike Irwin** · October 27, 2012, 08:48 AM

"This forum needs a "like" button...

"like"

We do have one. It's called Thread Rating.

If you go to the top message on any page, all the way to the right you'll see a bar that says "Rate This Thread."

Click it and select one of the star levels.

October 24, 2012, 07:33 PM	#82
michael t Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Out back Ky Posts: 4,044	I sent mine in Light firing pin strikes . was almost 6 weeks came back work performed POLISHED THE FEED RAMP Still had lite strikes Went back 2 nd time from dealer and returned still lite strikes . Dealer took back on trade and I bought a different brand . My older PT-92 has been a good pistol so guess not all bad . __________________ Certified Armed Infidel Colt Defender ,Colt Mustang ,Dan Wesson CBOB, PPK/S, American Classic 1911,Bersa Thunder 380 http://bersachat.comHome of Bersa http://www.metroarms1911forum.com

October 24, 2012, 08:47 PM	#84
Cliff.J. Junior Member Join Date: October 24, 2012 Posts: 5	Save your pennies... ...and buy a Colt

October 24, 2012, 08:50 PM	#85
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	excellent post, ^^^^ no need to offer any amplifying information, personal experience or postings just...buy a Colt.... glad to have you aboard MR...uh...Cliff. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

October 25, 2012, 03:58 PM	#88
Doug S Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 745	LockedBreech, My experience with the Accord has likewise been very good. Currently I'm enjoying my Element...same engine as the Accord. __________________ "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." Col. Jeff Cooper, from The Art of the Rifle

October 25, 2012, 04:14 PM	#93
Doug S Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 745	This forum needs a "like" button... "like" __________________ "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." Col. Jeff Cooper, from The Art of the Rifle

October 23, 2012, 10:53 PM	#77
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	Yeah. I "torture tested" my SIG P226 with 5,000 rounds already Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

October 24, 2012, 06:19 AM	#79
StainlessSteel215 Junior member Join Date: September 26, 2012 Posts: 250	No, Im not going to subject any of my guns to that type of abuse so I probably shouldnt have included the words "TORTURE TEST"....its simply a 2k round performance test. but any gun that fires 2k rounds without a single cleaning so you can note its performance is worthy by any means.

October 24, 2012, 06:19 AM	#80
dwhite Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2007 Location: Wake County, N. Carolina Posts: 379	I think Taurus is coming to the realization that they've lost a lot of their dealers. Around here I can't think of any gun store I frequent that sells Taurus handguns unless they're used and have been traded in. I just got a 24/7 Pro C used from one. Trying to win military contracts with the level of service and stories of bad reliability they have is a futile endeavor. They have to improve their image. I think Taurus has made so many models over the years they have a hard time keeping parts on hand which contributes to poor service turn around. I wonder how many parts are interchangeable between models for everything they've produced in the past 10 years? How many Glock parts are interchangeable? There's a lot of Smith and Wesson, Glock, Beretta, Colt banners hanging in gun stores. It's been a LONG time since I've seen a Taurus banner proudly displayed. So far the 24/7 I got is o'kay. I had to fix the magwell to keep the magazine from falling out but it's 100% now. Glad I bought it. They're a good company. They build a nice product at a good price. They need to work on the quality though. All the Best, D. White

October 24, 2012, 10:02 AM	#81
Gaerek Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Arizona Posts: 939	I know the gun store I frequent the most has a few Taurus's in the case, but anytime anyone asks to look at one, the sales person always (at least the dozen or so times I've seen it happen) tells them they have more issues with Taurus than any other gun they sell. They then show the person equivalent options that are rarely more than 10 or 15% more that are far more reliable. I asked one of the guys there why they turn people away from a potential sale and he said that, by volume, they sell fewer Taurus than any of the other big brands, yet, by far, more people bring Taurus's in for work because they aren't working properly. Most of the sales people are hoping they can just stop selling them, but the owner apparently wants people to have options and doesn't want to stop selling them. Also, they get a lot of extra money from fixing them. :P

October 24, 2012, 08:37 PM	#83
whiskyrunner Member Join Date: October 9, 2012 Location: Polkton N.C. Posts: 24	I own 3 pistols, a ruger lcp, (4 years old) a kimber ultra carry (2 years old), and a pt111 taurus, have probably put 7500 rounds through the taurus in the past 12 years and its preformed flawlessly with 1 caveat, even locked in a vise it wont hit a 3 foot square piece of paper at 15 feet, its reliable as an anvill no matter what you feed it, it will chamber and fire, without question,every time, but dont try and shoot anything with it, because you simply WONT hit it

October 25, 2012, 04:08 PM	#92
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	I'll stick to my Ford Mustang GT Had a Honda way back when. Thing didn't die. My plan was to "run it into the ground". It fought back. So I sold it.

October 25, 2012, 10:13 PM	#94
reaganmarine84 Member Join Date: December 6, 2011 Posts: 79	Checking in on my own post. I own 8 Taurus pistols and have a 709 in lay-away right now. Allow me to expand a few details to my original post. The 809:the problem I was experiencing was a failure to return to battery after achieving slide lock and using the overhand-slingshot method after inserting a fresh,loaded magazine. Pressing the slide catch release still worked to return the gun into battery. Solution:the sent me 2 new mags. problem solved. How many of you guys out there have NEVER,EVER had a problematic or finicky factory mag? That's common for literally any manufactuer. Taurus could have told me to go and buy my own,but they just gave me 2 new ones. Not so bad. The 738:Problem #1 was actually my fault. I demolished the take-down pin while disassembling the gun for cleaning. #2 the slide catch would not always capture the slide and hold open after the last round was fired. Taurus replaced the slide catch and replaced the take down pin with a new one,which actually is easier to work with than the orignal pin the gun came with. The original pin was SUPER tight to get in and out of the frame. The new pin is much easier to manipulate. Those are somewhat minor issues to me guys. But hey,everyone is different in their definition of what is or is not a MINOR issue. Continue bashing. __________________ Taurus 24/7 Pro DS 9mm & .40;(2)Taurus OSS DS 9mm;Taurus OSS DS .40;Taurus 809;809 compact;840;PT709 "slim" SS;PT738;full size BUL Cherokee;SCCY CPX-2;Smith&Wesson BG .380;Arcus 98 DA;EAA witness P 9mm;I.O. inc. AK-47C;Zastava PAP;Mossberg 500 tactical;Marlin model 60.

October 25, 2012, 11:28 PM	#95
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	It's not bashing.... its just simply statistics... If you want to visit me in PA we can pull up every gunsmith service order I have and narrow it down by brand if you would like.. the computer goes back 11 years if I remember correctly. Yes I am a fan of H&K.. my name is inspired by the design of the H&K P7 which I absolutely love. Far from a perfect gun, but unique, and if you have ever shot one, it does it's job well. However I am not just some pure HK fan boy... in fact since I recently sold my last P7.. I don't even own an HK. I carry mostly 1911's anyways... and own a ton of others... Even still the CZ=75B I bought used for $300 is probably one of the most accurate stock guns I own. There is my point... I have an excellently crafted and reliable gun... Yet I only paid $300 for it.... two mags.. and a case. You can get better used guns for the same price as a Taurus.. and be able to sleep a little easier.

October 26, 2012, 03:33 PM	#96
reaganmarine84 Member Join Date: December 6, 2011 Posts: 79	dude. I sleep fine. stop projecting. __________________ Taurus 24/7 Pro DS 9mm & .40;(2)Taurus OSS DS 9mm;Taurus OSS DS .40;Taurus 809;809 compact;840;PT709 "slim" SS;PT738;full size BUL Cherokee;SCCY CPX-2;Smith&Wesson BG .380;Arcus 98 DA;EAA witness P 9mm;I.O. inc. AK-47C;Zastava PAP;Mossberg 500 tactical;Marlin model 60.

October 26, 2012, 06:09 PM	#98
Yung.gunr Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2010 Location: Phoenix area Posts: 1,442	Oh my gosh this thing is still going??...

October 26, 2012, 07:38 PM	#99
FFournier Member Join Date: September 27, 2012 Location: Houston TX. Posts: 32	These guys I know decided to have a Hi Point Taurus shoot out. And as soon as the guns get back from being "fixed", it's on...lol __________________ Why so many guns? Cause I don't call 911!!!

October 27, 2012, 08:48 AM	#100
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,383	"This forum needs a "like" button... "like" We do have one. It's called Thread Rating. If you go to the top message on any page, all the way to the right you'll see a bar that says "Rate This Thread." Click it and select one of the star levels. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.