Dry ball and more....

[Gbro]

Today my grandson dry balled his .45 Ultra-Hi flinter(on the second shot of the day). I couldn't get enough powder behind the ball to get any kind of bang. The ball puller is stuck in the barrel (ball) along with the ram rod Ferrel.
I have never had the breach opened on this rifle and that looks like what is in order for this problem.
I am just a little more than concerned about the small (thin) breach plug hex on this gun. There is only 1/4" of octagon to hold on this plug. I can just see a slip and stripped breach plug.
Any suggestions to help save this gun from damage?

[Hawg]

Put the ramrod end in a secure vise with padded jaws and pull the rifle off the ramrod.

[kbuck]

Uh-oh. If the gun has a flash hole liner, you can probably find a CO2 discharger that should dislodge everything. I think there was another thread like this on this or another forum and someone posted that 4 grains of 4F was enough to move the ball, etc. down the bore so that a better amount of powder could be introduced to the breech. Of course, the obstruction was rammed back down onto the powder to make the clearing shot. If you do have a flash hole liner, you could possibly lever the ball forward enough with a pick or other instrument to give you room for powder. I would personally exhaust all means before resorting to removing the breech plug. If this sounds like a reply from someone who has had a similar experience........ Good luck! If you have to remove the plug, let an experienced BP smith do the work. I like McCain's Outdoors in West Virginia. I am interested in hearing what works.

[kbuck]

Hawg Haggen: I think he said the ramrod ferrel was pulled off and sitting down there with the ball puller and ball.

[Beaverman]

if all else fails, before you remove the breech plug, if you have a touch hole liner, remove it, get a grease zerk with the same thread, install it and pump the grease into it, the hydraulics from the grease will move that ball everytime!

[Gbro]

Kbuck you are correct, the puller is stuck in the rod tip and the rod pulled free of the tip.
The powder chamber area must be ruff as I have pulled several loads from this barrel and all have pulled without much effort.
Vent liner,
Well that's the biggest problem. I do not have a removable vent liner in this gun. I have contemplated having one put in but the existing touch hole is drilled high. It is a large hole high on a flat. I might just have to have it welded shut and repositioned. Have considered this several times.
I joined the dryball club about 15-20 years ago with this same rifle.
Still a very memorable event. Others well remember it also and just love to, "Remember When" every time the subject is raised.

[Gbro]

Kbuck posted,

I think there was another thread like this on this or another forum and someone posted that 4 grains of 4F was enough to move the ball,

There was another dryball yesterday with a caplock and it took 2 attempts to dislodge that one. The 1st pop moved the obstruction 1/2 way then we were able to add a little more powder then re-seat the ball, it popped out quite well the 2nd time.
A smooth bore had to go home with a ball 1/2 down the barrel. didn't have the right tools to drive it fully down. That one happened during the team event. cutting a 4X4 off at 40 yards.
I put a lot of powder through the cap & ball revolvers. Everyone got to give them a try. I told about another shooting friend that had never shot a cap&ball before and was able to put 4 of 6 on a 9" paper plate @ 50 yards. I shot this same revolver at the 100 yd Gong (16") and rung it 1 time. Then our bow hunter rung it on the 3rd shot, the arrow shattered into many pieces. 1st 2 were low but in-line all the way.

[madcratebuilder]

CO2 discharger, they work great.

[Dingoboyx]

Taking the barrel off the stock and heat up the area of the barrel where the ball is stuck (with a butane/propane torch) to melt the lead out..... wont take long (make sure there is no powder behind the ball that might go bang, first)

When I have dry balled my revolvers, I put the cylinder in the oven and the ball drops out as soon as it starts to melt. Thats why I am thinking melting the ball in the barrel might work in your case

[Pahoo]

Like the Hawg said, I would only remove the breech plug as a last resort. The other suggestions are good and you will have to determine what is workable for you. quite a few years back we had to use to method that Beaverman has listed, with the grease zerk. It worked pretty slick. before pulling or pushing give it a good soak with some #13. In my mind, I can see the entire assembly sitting there and it's all centered up pretty well. I have never done this but I think you can install an "Easy-Out" on the end of a rod and remove the ferrel and worm screw. It won't take much torque to remove this assembly and you then can start all over. Man would I ever like to try this fix. .....
Be sure and tell your Grandson that even Old-Guys like me, have dry-balled and then some ....


Be Safe !!!

[fastforty]

Does anyone have multiple experiences with a ball puller? I mean, enough to say whether you should really try to use one or just throw it away before you are tempted. I've never used one, but it looks to me like screwing that thing into a soft lead ball is going to expand the ball until it is hopelessly stuck.

[Hawg]

Does anyone have multiple experiences with a ball puller? I mean, enough to say whether you should really try to use one or just throw it away before you are tempted. I've never used one, but it looks to me like screwing that thing into a soft lead ball is going to expand the ball until it is hopelessly stuck.

Yeah, they work..........As long as you make sure the ferule is pinned to the ramrod and not just glued.

[Pahoo]

Does anyone have multiple experiences with a ball puller?

Yes I have and purposely do so for new M/L instructors in an attempt to de-horn that devil. I have also pulled blunt nose and hollow-points in sabots. I have pulled them out, as well as blown them out. Sabots are easier to pull than PRB. On PRB, remember that you are working with pure lead and it will take forming rather well. Have never tried this method on ballistic or hard tips but these are usually loaded in In-lines with removable breech plugs. When you put the screw jag into the ball, it displaces lead up and around the threads of the jag. Not a problems and dumping a bit of #13 down the bore, helps. We got a range-rod stuck once and had to blow it out with Co2 blower. Another time just soaked it extra long with #13 and two of us were able to pull it but keep in mind that this was on a known dry-ball. Otherwise we used the old tree crotch as an anchor point as mentioned by Hawg.

Be Safe !!!

[Gbro]

Hawg posted,

Yeah, they work..........As long as you make sure the ferule is pinned to the ramrod and not just glued.

This one was glued and pined. Pin must have worked loose when threading it into the ball.
I have pulled many out of my .54's. I have a pilot drill/.53 guide that works much better than trying to just screw int the ball, like fastforty stated, I too think there is a degree of expansion in using a puller.
I used some Remington boolets 10 years ago and they had a small hollow/pilot hole that was easy to start the extractor into. That is why I went the pilot drill.
I will have to look into the easy out method tomorrow.
Thanks all i will keep you posted

[Beaverman]

FF pullers work well when use with a range rod with a T handle, this gives you something to anchor the end of the rod to as you pull the rifle, I will use them as a 3rd to last resort, 2nd to last resort being the grease method, last resort pulling the breech plug, thats why when i build a rifle the threads on the breech plug have anti sieze on them for just this reason, a wood ram rod will work sometimes, especially if you have one of those ram rod pullers.

[Dingoboyx]

wot he said sounds best..... pump 'er out with grease should work

I still like the idea of melting the ball with a torch (to the outside of the barrel, with stock removed) You wont have to make the barrel glow or anything nasty, just warm it up with the muzzle down, wait for it to drop/ooze out

Good luck (I dont like the idea of steel things going down the barrel easyouts, drills etc)

What about use heat to the barrel and compressed air where Beaverman said?

[Beaverman]

Gbro, have any luck getting that out yet?

[Gbro]

Beaverman asks,

have any luck getting that out yet?

Yes the ball and fittings are out.
I tried a small 12V compressor that had a small tapered tip that would build pressure but not enough to move anything.
Then,
I thought I would try my needle greaseer tip and of course I couldn't find it. Had to go buy a new one.
The grease gun would not move the ball as the tip didn't fit the touch hole tightly enough.
Then plan B was to take everything to the fire hall and use the high pressure air storage system.
This gave enough pressure and volume to do the trick.
Some pictures here,
http://www.nashwauk.net/DryBall.html

[Pahoo]

Gees, I feel just like one of my kids gave birth.
Fantastic and will have to put this one in my "How To" books. What made it extra challenging, is that you were working with just a little vent. Great job !!


Be Safe !!!

[Beaverman]

WOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!! good to hear your quandry beens solved!

[olmontanaboy]

Then plan B was to take everything to the fire hall and use the high pressure air storage system.

Well, I bet this will teach him not to forget the powder for a while, Just kiding, I've done it myself a time or two