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Old January 2, 2014, 06:03 PM   #1
mnoirot64
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.38 Special reloading question

Greetings,

I load a lot of handgun and rifle ammunition. Primarily .45 ACP, 44 Magnum, 338 RUM and 308 WIN. I have been attempting to come up with a solid recipe for 38 Special and have been having a LOT of difficulty. I don't seem to have an issue with JHP, but I do with 158 grain SWC lead from Magnus. My most recent batch is 5.2 grains of Power Pistol over a CCI small pistol primer. Shooting through my SP-101 .357 magnum, the load is still smoky and dirty to shoot. Based on Hornady and Lyman reloading guides, this recipe is a bit towards the hot side - but still dirty. Will shooting a lead bullet cause the round to be dirtier than a JHP? Any suggestions with this combination would be greatly appreciated. I still have about 300 of these cast lead bullets and want to use them up.

Thanks,
Michael Noirot
Clarksville, Tennessee
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Old January 2, 2014, 06:19 PM   #2
g.willikers
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If the Power Pistol shoots clean with the jacketed bullets, then the smoke and dirt is being caused by the bullet.
It could be the lube, and/or the size.
Lead bullets usually need to be slightly larger in diameter (.001-.002) than jacketed to seal the bore.
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Old January 2, 2014, 06:50 PM   #3
LE-28
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Quote:
Will shooting a lead bullet cause the round to be dirtier than a JHP?
Oh yeah, Lead is the dirtiest bullet you can shoot. They smoke a lot at indoor ranges and make your gun look like it hasn't been cleaned for a year.

I shoot mostly plated because of it.
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Old January 2, 2014, 06:52 PM   #4
mnoirot64
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Thank you for the replies. I guess I will just start buying jacketed bullets as the lead sure gums up my wheel gun in a hurry.
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Old January 3, 2014, 05:48 AM   #5
ligonierbill
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Try a different lead bullet. I shoot "hard" OT 158s and very soft swaged Speer 158s, and they don't seem to crap up the gun. Smoke from the lube, sure. Target load is 5.0 PP, good for 800 fps from a 4" S&W 64. Going to 5.8 gets a +P at 944 avg.
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Old January 3, 2014, 07:40 AM   #6
Nathan
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I think you might have better luck with something faster like Titegroup or AA#5. Power Pistol seems slow for 38 spcl causing incomplete burn and lots of soot.

Lead is often a bit dirtier, but not by a huge amount.
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Old January 3, 2014, 10:11 AM   #7
Gadawg88
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I use the 38 Match 158 gn lswc bullets from Missouri Bullet over hp-38. They are not overly dirty, but I do get more smoke than with jacketed bullets due to the lube on the bullet. That is normal from what I have been told by those with more years of experience than me. They shoot well and are cheap.
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Old January 3, 2014, 10:22 AM   #8
g.willikers
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Reasons to use lead bullets, instead of plated or jacketed, is to save money (for those who really shoot a lot), and for shooting at steel plates (to avoid nasty ricochet shrapnel).
If you're not doing either.....
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Old January 3, 2014, 11:07 AM   #9
Slamfire
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Quote:
Will shooting a lead bullet cause the round to be dirtier than a JHP?
I am of the opinion that the smoke you see is lube.

There are also lead particles being ejected, on the order of 5600 micrograms per round! Eighty micrograms per cubic meter is the OSHA limit for workplace exposure. If you shoot lead I would recommend you avoid indoor ranges and shoot in a well ventilated area.

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Old January 3, 2014, 02:22 PM   #10
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Smoke, dirt and lead pollution are why I started using wads under my lead bullets. After powder charging I put a .360" X .060" vegetable fiber wad in the case mouth. The wad stays at the base of the bullet when seating, you never want to push a wad down on top of the powder.
Smoke is greatly reduced and the base of the bullet doesn't melt. The gun stays far cleaner as well.
I have also heard of guys seating gas checks upside down under plain base lead bullets for the same reasons.
I'm starting to transition to plated in my revolver loads. Less hassle, cleaner shooting.
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Old January 3, 2014, 03:07 PM   #11
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I shoot lead on top of 3.5g of bullseye, great stuff! Super smokey though.
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Old January 3, 2014, 10:31 PM   #12
mnoirot64
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Thank you for all the great information. I am making the move to plated bullets. I really don't shoot the revolver that much so the cost of the jacketed bullets will not make that much of a difference. I only bought the lead SWC bullets because that was all I could find.
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Old January 3, 2014, 10:39 PM   #13
zxcvbob
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You just need a faster powder: Green Dot, Red Dot, 231, American Select, Bullseye. Unique for +P loads using lead.
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Old January 3, 2014, 11:54 PM   #14
5whiskey
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Shoot hard cast... still a little dirtier than a jacketed bullet but it is far cleaner than lead. Matter of fact, I get less metal fouling in the barrel shooting hard cast than jacketed in my Ruger security six. Of course, I had an S&W that was the opposite. I guess it just depends.
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Old January 4, 2014, 01:50 AM   #15
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I coat my lead bullets with a 50/50 mix of Lee Alox/Mineral Spirits. Just enough to put a shine but not enough to see. I don't have a problem with smoke using lead bullets anymore and it's still cheaper than buying plated.
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Old January 4, 2014, 10:47 AM   #16
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At 38 special velocities, try a swaged bullet , like the hornady or zero LSWCHP....

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Old January 5, 2014, 04:08 PM   #17
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The dirt is probably caused by the lead bullet lube and a fairly hot burning powder.

Keep in mind that you will get much lower velocities shooting 158gr full metal jacket loads in standard pressure .38 spl loads than you will with 158gr lead bullets. In fact, some manuals suggest against using 158gr FMJ bullets in .38 spl standard pressure due to the hazard of getting a bullet stuck in the barrel.

American Select is an excellent power for .38 spl lead loads because it is a low-density flake powder that has low nitroglycerine content, burns relatively cool, and yields very little smoke.
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