Illegal handgun - Page 2

Don H · February 27, 2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimPage

Cutting it up, smuggling it across state lines will get you in trouble with the law.

For my edification, would you please cite the federal/NY state law that states destroying a firearm is illegal? I like to keep track of gun laws as a sort of hobby.

Onward Allusion · February 27, 2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

JimPage
<SNIP>Cutting it up, ~~smuggling it across state lines will get you in trouble with the law.~~

Now that I have given my advice, let me tell you one more thing. Never take legal advice from someone you don't know on the internet. Research it yourself or ask an attorney.

Cutting it up into inoperable parts (i.e. receiver in pieces and unable to be put back together) is not illegal, at least from the Federal level. Of course, it being NY - there could be some strange laws against destroying a firearm.

Going to the police could open a can of worms, since the history of the gun is unknown.

You are right, however. The OP should not take legal advice from a bunch of peeps on a gun forum. He should check with his lawyer.

Bill DeShivs · February 27, 2012, 05:44 PM

Individuals can not mail a handgun, even to an FFL. It's illegal. Common carrier must be used.

**Tom Servo** · February 27, 2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Going to the police could open a can of worms, since the history of the gun is unknown.

Right. About twice a year, I'll deal with someone whose spouse or parent passed away, leaving them an unregistered NFA weapon of some sort. I suppose they could go straight to the police station with it, but things could get hairy depending on who's working the desk that day.

My advice to them is to contact an attorney, who then calls the appropriate authorities, and have the weapon handed over in the attorney's presence. It could save a great deal of trouble.

hermannr · February 27, 2012, 10:51 PM

If I remember correctly (and I have inherited a firearm from NYS, however, I do not, and have not ever, lived there) There is a legal method to register it, strictly because it is an inherited weapon. All my BIL's also got guns and tehy do live in NYS. In my case, I just took it home. We do not have any gun registration/permit to own/here in WA.

I would suggest you talk to a lawer that understands NYS gun law. It probably won't take more than 15 minutes of his (and your) time, and may not cost you anything, at the most very little.

**44 AMP** · February 27, 2012, 11:02 PM

Best advice, get an attorney!

All the advice to cut it up, sell it out of state, ship it, drop in river, etc is bad advice, simply because you do not know the history of the gun.

OK, Dad bought it from some guy at work 40 yrs ago....what did it do before that?

People think that since they don't know, and it could be a crime gun, cutting it up, or otherwise destroying it is the "safe" thing to do. Its not. It might just be destroying evidence.

Even in NYS the law allows for "found" guns and there is a mechanism to deal with them in the system. However, to be absolutely protected to the fullest extent possible, get a lawyer, and have them deal with the system. It will likely cost more than that particular gun is worth, but it ensures there will be no legal repercussions on you.

JimPage · March 5, 2012, 09:36 PM

Don H:

Cutting it up is not illegal, destroying the serial number is. Perhaps I'm wrong. Heed my advice not to accept advice from the internet.

Buzzcook · March 5, 2012, 09:42 PM

Call the local cops, explain your situation, follow their advice.

SwampYankee · March 5, 2012, 10:11 PM

The BATFE is reading the thread AS WE SPEAK! And they are coming for you now, expect to see them in 15 minutes... Well, since they are not the brightest boxes of bulbs, give it an hour-and-a-half.

Come on folks, lets use some common sense and dispose of the paranoia. You can bring it to the cops, contact a lawyer, cut it up or bury it in the back yard. Even if it were a crime gun, whatever may have happened with it happened 40 years ago. There are no records, there is no paper trail, there is nothing.

Rochester is not NYC. This is not a big deal.

**Tom Servo** · March 5, 2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Even if it were a crime gun, whatever may have happened with it happened 40 years ago. There are no records, there is no paper trail, there is nothing.

How can you be sure of that?

SwampYankee · March 5, 2012, 10:46 PM

Quote:

How can you be sure of that?

Because it was 1970. Even if the records do exist, the likelihood that they have been computerized is infinitesimal. And I know cops, I come from a family of them. They are not going to spend weeks looking through paper to find a gun that is not in a computer. And what paper? Where do you start? Every town in NY has a building full of police paperwork. Oswego, Palmyra, Canandaigua, Geneva, Auburn? Who is going to waste their time tromping around beautiful upstate NY (spent 4 years there). It was 1970, suppose a guy gets murdered. A gun is used in a murder, how do they know what serial number? All they know is the caliber. At best. CSI is crap and 1970 was nothing short of the stone age. Worst case scenario, it's a stolen gun and that's how they have the serial. And even, in the off-chance that the gun was used in crime and is in the computer (which is 1 degree north of impossible), the guy who bought the gun is dead, the grandma who is in possession of the gun is an old woman and the son who was aware of the gun was no more than 10 when the crime was committed. Right? Garybock may be 60+, but I get the feeling he is not quite that old.

Being from a family of cops, I can tell you that even the biggest jerkwad cop (my brother) is going to spend 10 minutes sorting this out, shake his head, take possession of it an be done with it. There is nothing here. Nothing but paranoia. The BATFE is letting hundreds of "assault weapons" into Mexico to keep the party rolling. No one cares about this gun of Gary's, except everyone wearing a tinfoil hat...

jimpeel · March 6, 2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Even if it were a crime gun, whatever may have happened with it happened 40 years ago.

At that point, cutting it up becomes destruction of evidence. There goes his CCW and every firearm he owns.

Contact an attorney and have them turn it in if you don't want it. If you do want it, contact an attorney and have him do the legwork to make it legally yours.

Let this be a lesson to all. Don't live in a state that is hostile to firearms and firearms owners. That is why I moved out of CA.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · March 6, 2012, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Not knowing New York law I would contact an attorney who is well versed in NY gun laws and have him/her turn it in for you.

Excellent idea. But ask for and get a receipt as well.

SwampYankee · March 6, 2012, 05:28 AM

Quote:

At that point, cutting it up becomes destruction of evidence. There goes his CCW and every firearm he owns.

If you cut it up and put it in garbage bag, that garbage bag goes to the landfill. How is anyone going to know you destroyed any evidence? You don't even know if you destroyed evidence! Now I'm not suggesting doing something illegal. But I can take any gun I own and destroy it. That is not illegal.

What I am saying is that this is a non-issue. No matter what you do with it, nothing bad is going to happen. Assuming Gary is not currently under police surveillance for something else, the police are not watching him. They have no idea he has this gun, have no idea what the gun was used for and have no idea if it was used in a crime. People watch TOO MUCH TV!

Or just bring it in to the police. That is what I would do. Don't waste your money on on a lawyer. Call them up, tell them the story and they will either pick it up or tell you where to drop it off. Problem solved! By the way, the gun is a piece of junk. I wouldn't sully my gun safe with it's presence....

jimpeel · March 6, 2012, 01:17 PM

What if that firearm is the key piece of evidence in a forty-year-old cold case? I believe the police would have some interest in acquiring it.

If there are no wants against the firearm, no harm, no foul.

**44 AMP** · March 6, 2012, 01:37 PM

Since we are dancing on the head of a pin here, the real world results are problematical, however, if the stars line up just right, there could be trouble.

Here's an example, a gal has a .22 Ruger, an ex-boyfriend got it (second, or 15th hand, nobody knows). Her cousin asks to borrow it. Brings it back a week later. Does it again a month after. No problem, right?

Except, each time he borrowed the gun, he killed someone with it. Gal gets worried. Nothing concrete, just worried (knowing her cousin...) so she decides to get rid of it. Has current boyfriend throw it in the river. End of problem, right?

Next year, some kids fishing find the gun. Gun gets turned in, turns out to be linked to the murders. OTHER evidence (not the gun directly) in the cases leads the cops to the gal, and links her to the gun. She's not the murder suspect, but is now involved, and liable for charges. OF course, she co-operates, and testifies, so charges are not filed against her. BUT, they could have been, because of what she did, even though she didn't "know" there was anything wrong doing it.

My point here is that its not a question of how likely it is that you would be caught destroying (cutting up, whatever) a crime gun, but that just doing it without knowing, for certain that the gun wasn't a crime gun opens you up to potental legal problems. And, if the stars line up, even though you may evade jail time, you could lose your gun rights, for good.

Why risk it? Going to a lawyer, and having him/her dispose of the questionable gun, through the legal system is basic cya.

Sure, the odds are small that even if it IS a crime gun that they will track it to you, BUT, people play the lottery every day, and sometimes, they even win.

The other thing about using a lawyer and turning it in is, that besides CYA, it might just be the missing piece of evidence needed to crack a cold case and bring the guilty to justice. Even after 40 years. Stranger things have happened in real life, not just on TV.

Sure, it seems like a good idea to just get rid of it, and no one will ever know. But its not the BEST thing you can do with it.

SwampYankee · March 6, 2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Except, each time he borrowed the gun, he killed someone with it.

Ah, but she let him borrow the gun! That was an incredibly stupid thing to do and what makes your scenario completely different from the OP's. She made herself culpable.

In the OP's case, dad bought a gun 40 years ago, presumably legally. If everything was above-board with the purchase, then dad did nothing wrong. Even if it turns out the gun was involved in a crime 40 years ago, dad is dead and he bought the gun legally. They can't come after him because he is 6 feet under.... Here is textbook breaking the law: People find dead grand-dad's machine gun in the attic all the time. They were in possession after he died, they broke the letter of the law. But no one ever gets prosecuted. You call up the state police, they deal with the ATF, cops show up, they take it and destroy it.

Every scenario is different and you can come up with a million of them. In this case, bringing it to the PD is easiest safest thing to do. But it is still not illegal to hack it up.

Quote:

What if that firearm is the key piece of evidence in a forty-year-old cold case?

It's 40 year old case. Even if the serial number is in a computer (and it has to be for it to useful), it's still a 40 year old case. Either everyone is dead, elderly or has no reliable memory of events going back that far. And even if they do have a memory, 40 years will get it thrown out of court, any good defense lawyer can shed all kinds of doubt on it.

jimpeel · March 6, 2012, 01:58 PM

Off topic but a good example that is in the news today.

Forgotten time capsule reveals building's past, contributes to girl's future

Watch the video.

**44 AMP** · March 8, 2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Except, each time he borrowed the gun, he killed someone with it.

Ah, but she let him borrow the gun! That was an incredibly stupid thing to do and what makes your scenario completely different from the OP's. She made herself culpable.

I suppose it might. I failed to mention that the gal didn't know about the killings at the time, she was just worried her cousin would (or had) done something bad, and she wanted the gun gone, in a way that wouldn't (she thought) trace back to her...

As you said, every situation is different, and there is nothing directly illegal about you cutting up a gun that you don't KNOW is evidence....

But why bother? giving it to the cops still get the gun gone from your house, and might just benefit someone else, eventually.

As to any possible crime done 40 years ago, what's the point in prosecuting?
There is no statute of limitations on murder.

What's the point of prosecuting/extraditing those crippled old men that were once Nazi death camp guards? After all, that was a long time ago, too...

SwampYankee · March 9, 2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

As to any possible crime done 40 years ago, what's the point in prosecuting?
There is no statute of limitations on murder.

What's the point of prosecuting/extraditing those crippled old men that were once Nazi death camp guards? After all, that was a long time ago, too...

I did not say there was no point in prosecuting, what I said was that it would be very unlikely for a prosecutor to be successful with a 40 year old case. The Nazi's killed millions of people and there is still plenty of available documentation and even live witnesses, almost 70 years later.

The reason a 40 year old case has not been solved? Most likely because there were no witnesses, not because a gun with a serial number the police don't have anyway went missing.

But I do agree, just bring it to the cops, problem solved. And its a junk gun, why even bother trying to claim it even if it is clean...

Don P · March 9, 2012, 09:35 AM

Why not have the lawyer do a check of the serial #. Nothing comes back keep the gun, if it comes back stolen/used in a crime turn it in.
You folks built a sky scraper out on a pile of sand.

gyvel · March 9, 2012, 09:41 AM

The RG-15 is a garbage gun, with a Zamak frame. You can melt that with your propane torch.

Put the rest of the parts on eBay and make a few bucks.

JN01 · March 9, 2012, 06:04 PM

What could you get out of it if you sold it, $50-75? Unless it has some great sentimental value, not worth the expense of an attorney to keep it.

Worried about the "destruction of evidence" angle if you cut it up? Just turn it in to one of those no questions asked gun buy backs. Probably make as much as you would selling it and it becomes a police responsibility then.

February 27, 2012, 05:44 PM	#28
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Individuals can not mail a handgun, even to an FFL. It's illegal. Common carrier must be used. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 27, 2012, 11:02 PM	#31
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	Best advice, get an attorney! All the advice to cut it up, sell it out of state, ship it, drop in river, etc is bad advice, simply because you do not know the history of the gun. OK, Dad bought it from some guy at work 40 yrs ago....what did it do before that? People think that since they don't know, and it could be a crime gun, cutting it up, or otherwise destroying it is the "safe" thing to do. Its not. It might just be destroying evidence. Even in NYS the law allows for "found" guns and there is a mechanism to deal with them in the system. However, to be absolutely protected to the fullest extent possible, get a lawyer, and have them deal with the system. It will likely cost more than that particular gun is worth, but it ensures there will be no legal repercussions on you. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 5, 2012, 09:36 PM	#32
JimPage Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2010 Location: Rome, NY Posts: 941	Don H: Cutting it up is not illegal, destroying the serial number is. Perhaps I'm wrong. Heed my advice not to accept advice from the internet. __________________ Jim Page Cogito, ergo armatum sum

March 6, 2012, 01:17 PM	#40
jimpeel Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: Longmont, CO, USA Posts: 4,530	What if that firearm is the key piece of evidence in a forty-year-old cold case? I believe the police would have some interest in acquiring it. If there are no wants against the firearm, no harm, no foul. __________________ Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey

March 6, 2012, 01:37 PM	#41
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	Since we are dancing on the head of a pin here, the real world results are problematical, however, if the stars line up just right, there could be trouble. Here's an example, a gal has a .22 Ruger, an ex-boyfriend got it (second, or 15th hand, nobody knows). Her cousin asks to borrow it. Brings it back a week later. Does it again a month after. No problem, right? Except, each time he borrowed the gun, he killed someone with it. Gal gets worried. Nothing concrete, just worried (knowing her cousin...) so she decides to get rid of it. Has current boyfriend throw it in the river. End of problem, right? Next year, some kids fishing find the gun. Gun gets turned in, turns out to be linked to the murders. OTHER evidence (not the gun directly) in the cases leads the cops to the gal, and links her to the gun. She's not the murder suspect, but is now involved, and liable for charges. OF course, she co-operates, and testifies, so charges are not filed against her. BUT, they could have been, because of what she did, even though she didn't "know" there was anything wrong doing it. My point here is that its not a question of how likely it is that you would be caught destroying (cutting up, whatever) a crime gun, but that just doing it without knowing, for certain that the gun wasn't a crime gun opens you up to potental legal problems. And, if the stars line up, even though you may evade jail time, you could lose your gun rights, for good. Why risk it? Going to a lawyer, and having him/her dispose of the questionable gun, through the legal system is basic cya. Sure, the odds are small that even if it IS a crime gun that they will track it to you, BUT, people play the lottery every day, and sometimes, they even win. The other thing about using a lawyer and turning it in is, that besides CYA, it might just be the missing piece of evidence needed to crack a cold case and bring the guilty to justice. Even after 40 years. Stranger things have happened in real life, not just on TV. Sure, it seems like a good idea to just get rid of it, and no one will ever know. But its not the BEST thing you can do with it. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 27, 2012, 10:51 PM	#30
hermannr Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2011 Posts: 730	If I remember correctly (and I have inherited a firearm from NYS, however, I do not, and have not ever, lived there) There is a legal method to register it, strictly because it is an inherited weapon. All my BIL's also got guns and tehy do live in NYS. In my case, I just took it home. We do not have any gun registration/permit to own/here in WA. I would suggest you talk to a lawer that understands NYS gun law. It probably won't take more than 15 minutes of his (and your) time, and may not cost you anything, at the most very little.

March 5, 2012, 09:42 PM	#33
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Call the local cops, explain your situation, follow their advice.

March 5, 2012, 10:11 PM	#34
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	The BATFE is reading the thread AS WE SPEAK! And they are coming for you now, expect to see them in 15 minutes... Well, since they are not the brightest boxes of bulbs, give it an hour-and-a-half. Come on folks, lets use some common sense and dispose of the paranoia. You can bring it to the cops, contact a lawyer, cut it up or bury it in the back yard. Even if it were a crime gun, whatever may have happened with it happened 40 years ago. There are no records, there is no paper trail, there is nothing. Rochester is not NYC. This is not a big deal.

March 6, 2012, 01:58 PM	#43
jimpeel Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: Longmont, CO, USA Posts: 4,530	Off topic but a good example that is in the news today. Forgotten time capsule reveals building's past, contributes to girl's future Watch the video. __________________ Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey

March 9, 2012, 09:35 AM	#46
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Why not have the lawyer do a check of the serial #. Nothing comes back keep the gun, if it comes back stolen/used in a crime turn it in. You folks built a sky scraper out on a pile of sand. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

March 9, 2012, 09:41 AM	#47
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	The RG-15 is a garbage gun, with a Zamak frame. You can melt that with your propane torch. Put the rest of the parts on eBay and make a few bucks.

March 9, 2012, 06:04 PM	#48
JN01 Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2005 Location: E Tennessee Posts: 828	What could you get out of it if you sold it, $50-75? Unless it has some great sentimental value, not worth the expense of an attorney to keep it. Worried about the "destruction of evidence" angle if you cut it up? Just turn it in to one of those no questions asked gun buy backs. Probably make as much as you would selling it and it becomes a police responsibility then.