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Old January 23, 2008, 07:20 AM   #1
Sigma 40 Blaster
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How many shoot both IDPA and USPSA???

I've been shooting IDPA for maybe four months now, I've improved a lot but would like more disciplined trigger time that involves timed reloads, shooting on the move, and shooting from different positions (kneeling, behind cover etc.). So my thoughts were either build my own range (not likely to happen) or shoot more matches.

After talking to some IDPA guys and being introduced to some USPSA guys it seems like there is some halfway serious rivalry between the two groups, I'm not sure if this is just a local thing or something a little more widespread.

That's what prompted my question, how many shoot with both organizations? And if you do, is the competition between the two groups real or just of my imagination?

The USPSA Production division seems pretty similar in rules and gear requirements to IDPA, the only difference would be stage set-up. A little run and gun isn't bad for anyone as long as it's not teaching bad habits right???
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Old January 23, 2008, 09:01 AM   #2
WESHOOT2
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serious can of worms, oh my!

IDPA was started because certain folks thought USPSA had 'lost its way', no longer relating to the practical world (ha!).

I started shooting USPSA in March of 1995, and didn't get a chance to try IDPA until '00 /'01(?).
Shot a few, but the rules were confusing (and ever-changing, and I got into an arguement with an 'owner' over my suddenly-banned equipment).
Still shot a few.

Club formed in this region, held some matches, then evaporated.

IMO IDPA is more about execution of prescribed tactics, while USPSA is more about free-thinking solving of tactical problems.

Both enhance one's gun-handling and gun-safety skills.
Both give shooting 'purpose'.
Both can be fun.

I personally prefer USPSA and its easier-understood rules, its allowance for shooters to solve the 'problem', and certain gear-related issues.

BOTH can be shot just as "tactically" as the other, but you won't "win".
BFD.

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Last edited by WESHOOT2; January 23, 2008 at 09:03 AM. Reason: spelling, the Final Frontier
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Old January 23, 2008, 10:34 AM   #3
jmorris
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I shoot both, Shooting IDPA, it’s not that hard for a stock Glock 17 shooting factory ammunition to place 1st overall. The same cannot be said for USPSA, but then again it’s a great excuse for another pistol. USPSA started production to stop the out flow of members to IDPA. It is fun running through a 28 round stage with an open pistol without having to reload.
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Old January 23, 2008, 01:33 PM   #4
RickB
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I've been shooting USPSA since '97, and IDPA since '00. I am very enthusiastic about both, as you might suspect. There are many more similarities than differences, so if you like IDPA, and you want more trigger time and different challenges, I highly recommend USPSA. While clubs differ in the type of stages they set up, you will not find as much shooting from odd positions, or shooting on the move, in USPSA.
The rivalry comes from the same guys who founded IPSC/USPSA, deciding they needed to "correct their mistakes" by introducing IDPA, and the IPSC shooters believing there is nothing wrong with their sport. In my area, we have little crossover between the two. A typical USPSA club match draws 35-45 shooters, a typical IDPA club match draws 50-60 shooters, and there may be ten guys who shoot both. I find that most people who shoot one, and only one, can't accept a different reference point from that of "their" sport. IPSC shooters can't understand why they should use cover, or engage targets in a certain sequence, and IDPA shooters can't figure out why you would run around walls and barricades, exposing yourself to "threats", and carrying enough ammo (right out in the open!) to topple the Alamo. I say, why ask why? Follow the rules, shoot safely, and have fun.
We had a local USPSA Grand Master show up for his first IDPA match, on Saturday. He shot very well, getting dinged for only one PE, and having the second- or third-best score overall. I haven't had a chance to ask how he liked it, but we'll see if he comes back, next month.
One of the guys posted some vids on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search
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Old January 23, 2008, 09:38 PM   #5
Joe D
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My wife and I shoot both. When we lived in Atlanta we shot more USPSA matches than IDPA just because there were more. Here in Birmingham we shoot an IDPA match every weekend. I have spent a good bit of time analyzing both games and have come to the conclusion they do not compliment each other - at least for me.
I have found that I tend to shoot USPSA matches too slowly or shoot IDPA matches too fast and drop too many points.
USPSA is all about speed. Accuracy is important, but not too important in classes that have major and minor pf. An "A" and a "C" are very acceptable if you shoot fast.
IDPA requires a balance between speed and accuracy. It is a very elusive balance. Drop a -1 on every target and you have a real problem.
I guess if I had to choose I would go with IDPA.
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Old January 23, 2008, 11:41 PM   #6
glockopop
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If you were trying to become a national champ, I'd say pick one and stick with it, but it looks like you're like me and you just want to have fun while you improve your skills. I say shoot as many matches as you can! They're all fun!

I moved to a new city recently, so I've only had opportunity to shoot USPSA matches, but once the weather warms up there's also IDPA, Steel, and Bullseye. I'm going to shoot 'em all!

In the city I lived before, I shot IDPA almost as much as I shot USPSA. About half of the IDPA shooters also shot USPSA, but there was also a middle-aged couple who shot LOTS of bullseye matches and a younger couple who shot LOTS of cowboy matches. From what I could see, the more you compete, no matter what the type of competition is, the better you get at some aspect of shooting. You've got nothing to lose.

As for friction between the two, legendary shooter Brian Enos said it best in his book "Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals":

We all shoot for different reasons, but when you get right down to it, the aspects of the shooting are no different. I am tired of all the friction between "martial artists" and "gamesmen" and trap shooters who don't talk to skeet shooters and IPSC guys who won't shoot steel-- because it is all so much fun. Every style of shooting is fun, and whether you enjoy it or not shouldn't hurt another persons enjoyment of it.

Well said, Brian.
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Old January 24, 2008, 12:06 AM   #7
eerw
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I have shot USPSA since the late 80s and have enjoyed the trigger time in that sport..I started back when it was heads up. there were no divisions..and that is when it was funnest..

I started shooting IDPA a few years ago..and once I got a handle on the rules things went a little easier..

I really don't think its as practical as some people think..there are just limitations on the guns and equipment..

I shoot pretty much the same guns for both games now..

its all fun..but that will really depend on the club personnel running them.
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Old January 24, 2008, 04:09 AM   #8
Jeff22
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Idpa & Uspsa

I've been shooting IPSC at the local level since 1978 and IDPA since 2001.

In our area (central Wisconsin) we see a fair amount of shooters who compete happily in both disciplines.

I think the best thing USPSA ever did was (finally!) create the PRODUCTION class so that shooters with relatively stock equipment can compete against others with comparable gear. I'm a cop and I shoot my issue SIG 226 in both USPSA Production Class and IDPA Stock Service Pistol Class (when my schedule allows me to get to a match). USPSA badly needed an entry level class where beginners or the more "practically" oriented can compete on an even playing field.

The IDPA shooters I know who have gone on to try IPSC have enjoyed it, and the reverse is also true. I suspect the shooters who are very focused on competition will stick to IPSC.

The biggest perceptual problem that most shooters who are unfamiliar have about IPSC is that it requires an expensive scoped handgun in some weird caliber to be competitive. Once people discover that is no longer true, they tend to become more interested.
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Old January 24, 2008, 11:07 AM   #9
joseywales
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When first starting out, I shot just about every match I could get to - IDPA or USPSA. After about 6 months, I started to notice a preference for the 'freestyle' problem solving aspects in USPSA, and the generally higher round count at most of the USPSA matches. Add-in raising a family and other interests, and I quickly found that to stay bunked with my same roomate (wife of 20+ yrs) I would really only have time to play one.

As to rivalry between the two sports...haven't really seen too much of it in our area - though some in both camps have strong preferences.
Our USPSA club was started 2 years ago by an IDPA club that wanted to see both sports grow. We've got a great relationship between the two groups here in the NTX area. Several people play both, some IDPA folks have come to prefer USPSA, others have tried USPSA and found that they prefer IDPA. Shooting games - it's all good.
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Old January 24, 2008, 10:28 PM   #10
Sigma 40 Blaster
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I have enjoyed IDPA, the only thing that irritates me is that the courses are often set up with a required sequence of shots...that sometimes are not very practical. The scenarios, like on these forums, can get carried away pretty quickly if the stage designer has just watched an action movie or CourtTV.

I am looking forward to my first USPSA shoot next weekend...the freestyle courses sound interesting and will make you practice sound tactics first hand. Thanks for the feedback, I guess I'm just dealing with some folks who want their club to be THE BEST. I second the motion that if it's a shooting sport it's all good. I'm already starting to read about Bullseye shooting.

Thanks for the responses.
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Old January 25, 2008, 12:46 PM   #11
RickB
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The stages in IDPA should just about always have a required sequence of shots. If the scenario says, this happens, THEN that happens, THEN something else happens, you have to play along in that sequence. That way, everyone is shooting the same stage, and the winner is the person who executes the best. In IDPA, the creativity is in the mind of the stage designer. While a lot is made by some of the "freedom" of freestyle, in truth, just about everyone in a given division will shoot a stage the same way. Watch the supersquad at a major match, and they usually all shoot each stage the same way, as taking a chance on doing something that might give them an advantage is discarded in favor of executing a given plan better than everyone else.
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Old January 25, 2008, 09:52 PM   #12
Ken O
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I've shot ISPC since the late 80s, and IDPA since 00. They are both fun, although I prefer ISPC. I do have a lot of brain farts going from one to the other, especially the mag change. There are also other competitions like bowling pins, Steel challenge, silloettes, etc. You pay a lot for your gun and equipment, use it!
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Old January 25, 2008, 10:14 PM   #13
Sigma 40 Blaster
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Had to follow up...I got Burkett's Practical Shooting DVD in the mail today, forgot his first name (too lazy to go get it out of the player). MAAAN I have a lot of work to do. I've never paid attention to half of the details he was stressing about everything from gun placement to firing shots. This thing will definitely get played over and over.

Anyways...his explanation about the differences from IPSC and IDPA were interesting. Setting up for IPSC...he stressed mag holster placement, holster placement, all optimized for speed vs. practicality. His IDPA demos were WAAY different, the rules for gun placement and mag holder placement were way different, reloads...the list could go on. I

just keep trying to keep in mind he's talking about the divisions where race guns are pretty much required to halfway seriously compete, I'm just thinking how long it'll be before I want one of the Open class guns lol.
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Old January 26, 2008, 12:39 PM   #14
WESHOOT2
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competing vs winning is not a gun-n-gear issue

My 'Open Division' gun is an otherwise stock EAA Witness 9x19 with a factory 9x21 barrel w/2-port compensator attached; it replaces the standard barrel.
I wear it in a Galco Yaqui Slide, the same way I wear it to 'compete'.

I truly believe way too much emphasis gets placed on the equipment, and I would remind readers that Dave Sevigny used to slaughter 100+ shooters at local matches (okay, I had to drive to the S&W Academy in Mass....) using a basic 10-rd Minor-scored Glock.

"caliber of operator"

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Old January 26, 2008, 12:41 PM   #15
WESHOOT2
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gun-n-gear issue

Use what you already have; go watch ask learn join enjoy.
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Last edited by WESHOOT2; January 26, 2008 at 12:43 PM. Reason: got too excited
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Old January 26, 2008, 03:22 PM   #16
Sigma 40 Blaster
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I don't really care about winning, I'd just like to be halfway competitive using factory gear carried/worn under practical conditions. I think the production class fits that bill.

I just thought it was funny that the first 20 minutes of the practical shooting dvd was about gear and placement of gear. Again, I understand what he's doing and it's a great DVD.

I am actually looking forward to seeing he pimped out race guns. I've got to shoot some monsters in .38 super and .40 SW. Fun and easy but I could buy four guns for what one of them cost.
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