double charging and preventing them

[Sevens]

You can make a quality argument for accuracy simply by reducing any variables. Bench rest shooters weigh their empty brass, measure their flash holes and sort their bullets. Every single thing you can do to minimize any differences can, or rather *should* improve consistency, and thus better your chance for accuracy.

Using a powder that fills a cartridge case takes some variable out of the equation. There's no wondering if the powder is laying across the case horizontally, if it's piled up against the primer, or piled up against the bullet. There's no room for the powder to lay this way or that if there's no empty space in the case.

On the other hand, if you choose a powder that fills your case, but it's performance is erratic, then it's not helping. If it makes your guns dirtier than you can stand, you won't like it. If it's more expensive, harder to find locally, comes out of your powder measure poorly or can't be used for other calibers you like, then maybe you won't like it for that reason.

You've got to pick which characteristic of the powder is the most important to you. You've got to decide, in order, why you are going to choose a powder. It really oughta be different for each reloader.

There's more than a half dozen reasons why ANY handloader chooses a powder. Find your priorities and make your decision, but it's ludicrous to think that just because it's a priority to you that it's just as important to the next guy.

When I was 16, I started reloading... by myself... no help from anyone whatsoever. .38 Special. And what powder did I use? Green Dot. I picked it because it made a mid-range load when used with the Lee powder dipper they supplied. I didn't have money for a scale or a powder measure. I used the dipper and Green Dot and I made ammo that I shot at 25, 50 and 100 yards from a 6-inch barreled model 686. And Green Dot did everything in the world I needed at the time.

[wcboggs]

markr, good point and I didn't mean go on the cheap just to save money. Go to: http://www.alliantpowder.com/ and click on each bottle representing the different powders they have and read the descriptions. One thing they list is "Relative Quickness" (which is all keyed off of Bullseye's burn speed); that is one characteristic of powders that lend them to certain performances.

No some examples from my loads from my first post; I use 2400 for my 44 magnum loads because magnum loads work best with slower burning powders which allows pressure to build up to a higher point before the bullet leaves the muzzle and 2400 is only 27% of Bullseye. Also look at Unique which is 61.6% which still gives it a good magnum performance but is still fast enough so it can also be used in faster burning situations like pistol loads.

Filling the shell? Yes, there is a point where a powder may not burn as well because there is so little of it in the case but if you're putting 4 or 5 grains in a 45 shell, for example, that's plenty enough to eliminate burn effects. Go buy your loading book and stay between the min and max loads and you'll be fine. If the powder doesn't perform properly because it will be too little powder, they wont list a charge option for that powder. In fact if you leaf through the book, you will notice some powders are used only for certain loads even within the same cartridge and caliber and that's because the charge isn't compatible with good performance. They wont tell you a load that wont work; they want you happy with their products and will only suggest that which will make you happy.

Now to see what works best for your gun and situation, load a magazine or cylinder or so full of cartridges loaded from min. to max. dividing the difference by 4 or more and slowly increase the powder then go shoot them off the bench with a rest and see how accurate they are. Keep notes and try different powders, but read what the powder is best at before deciding which ones to use. Also load a load that shoots well control wise too; you dont want to load max loads for shooting bullseye and having the recoil beating you up. Get the idea?

Oh and the sorting brass and stuff, dont bother unless you're firing high power rifle in mile long competition. Head stamps dont mean beans you'll ever be able to notice for anything but long distance high power rifle stuff.

[marsofold]

Everyone has different priorities on why they choose a particular powder. For me, safety is #1. And for me, that means a load with the case 90%+ full. No possibility of a double charge. They do happen. Fact of life. Human nature. And it's a risk I choose not to take. Not blowing my fingers off is more important to me than saving money. For those that choose differently, go for it. It's your fingers. I know of no other way to 100% guarantee against a double charge. 99.9999% may be good enough for some, but not for me. I will never select a powder that does not fill the case. All alternative 100% foolproof solutions welcomed.

[wcboggs]

All alternative 100% foolproof solutions welcomed.

Yea did you read mine?

You know you're supposed to pay attention when loading you know, just a little common sense and filling only up side down shells is about as 100% as it gets. If an up side down shell is already loaded and the powder stayed in, then it was God's plan for you to lose your fingers.

Why dont you just buy cheap ammunition and sell the brass; it wont be much different price wise than loading since you're so limited by your safety "fill the shell" process?

[marsofold]

Your methods are not 100% or the term double charging wouldn't exist. Lots of good guys with plenty of common sense have had it happen. And your offensive BS that if people lose their fingers it was God's plan proves to everyone reading this thread that that YOU are 100% WRONG. I've modded at another forum, if I were one here, you would be banned.

[wcboggs]

And your offensive BS that if people lose their fingers it was God's plan proves to everyone reading this thread that that YOU are 100% WRONG.

Give me a break, you cant identify sarcasm? Frankly there's quite a bit of sarcasm in my post since there couldn't be anything easier than avoiding a double charge. If the concept of only filling a shell that has the open end being down so no powder could possibly be in it eludes you than this whole communication problem isn't me and you obviously only want to continue to rant about how double charges are impossible to avoid.

Let me apologize if I spoke so far over your head that you could reply the way you did.

[marsofold]

Congratulations, you are the first entry on my "ignore" list here!!!

[wcboggs]

Good, now I wont have someone digging for ways to start trouble and becoming hostile because they cant understand.

If you're that afraid of loading your own ammunition, you shouldn't be doing it.

[Redneck with a 40]

My solution is simple, I use Unique for loading my 357 mag and 40 S&W cases. In both of these calibers, a standard charge will fill the case to the point that a double charge will not fit, it will spill over. 6 grains of Unique behind a 165 grain Ranier in 40 S&W fills the case 2/3rds full of powder. 9 grains of Unique behind a 125 grain Remington SJHP does the same thing, it will spill over with a double charge. Unique = safety and good performance in my opinion.

[BigJimP]

On the Dillon 650 - and other presses - there is an extra station called a powder check station / and it checks and beeps when you are more than a few tenths of a grain out of tolerance.

Personally, I like a real consistent - and clean burning powder like Hodgdon TiteGroup. It is a low volume powder - it is possible to double charge even a 9mm / and it would be especially easy to do in high volume cases like .357 mag and .44 mag - but it just means you need to be careful and confident in your press setup / procedures as you reload.

Even being careful - the powder check station gives me a little extra confidence that things are running very consistently. But as an example, whenever I sit down at the press - I dump 5 charges of powder / and recycle them all. Then on the next 10 drops, as the shell gets to station 3 it is checked by the powder check die - but I still pull the case and check it on the scale to make sure it is exactly on my goal spec. If there is any variation, even 0.1 of a grain - I shut everything down and go back to square one. If my 9mm load calls for a min of 4.1 grains and a max of 4.4 grains of TiteGroup - my goal on my loads right now on 9mm is 4.3 grains ( using a 124gr Montana Gold bullet ) - so if everything isn't right on 4.3 grains I shut it down. Even after I go thru all this with the first 5 drops, and the next 10 drops, and even if the powder check doesn't beep at me, I still check every 10th round or so as a backup.

Reloading isn't for everyone - but I think the more meticulous you are, make darn sure your press is clean and consistent, check the loads - keep everything tuned up, you should really never have a double charge happen. Remember its not just the Double Charge that's a worry / its also the " no charge " where the primer may just cause the bullet to go into the barrel and stick ...... So you have to watch both extremes. But tolerances of even 0.1 of a grain on pistol loads is too much variation / and your goal has to be to eliminate it. My loads are consistent / and I know my ammo will produce groups at least 30% tighter than any factory load ( in any caliber I load ).

I like reloading - shooting my own loads - and I'd reload even if it wasn't cheaper. I think its part of the game. Get yourself a mentor in your area to help you thru some of this stuff - and give you a hand with your press setup, etc.

[wcboggs]

Right on Big Jim; I use the RCBS Lock Out Die which I set at the high side to be extra sure any overload doesn't pass and it stops the press from continuing.

I've only had the progressive now for about 1500 loads but I find that if I go at a steady somewhat slower pace, I have no variation in loads from set up to production; meaning the press is solid enough that the other functions dont have any effect on the powder charge. Frankly if you pay attention, it's pretty tough to double charge a load on a progressive.

And you're right, if you load in fear; you shouldn't be loading. Like with anything else that has risks, a healthy respect and attention to details is what you need; fear is dangerous.

[joneb]

http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/powder.pdf

[wcboggs]

Good find jibjab.