conundrum for the day

bushmaster65 · August 8, 2012, 10:26 PM

Just opened my shipment from CTD that contained, among other things, my brass range flask with 30 grain spout and adjustable powder measure.
I placed some pyrodex 3fg in the flask, set the powder measure for 30 grains, measured out the powder per instructions and got about 22gr into the powder measure instead of the anticipated 30. If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have none at all. So...do I now need to go buy a micro scale for hundreds of dollars? Lets hear it from the peanut gallery. I for one, lean towards trusting the adjustable measure. what say U???

Willie Sutton · August 8, 2012, 10:32 PM

If you want other volumes, buy more spouts and trim them to length with a file to make them perfect if you choose. Many lengths are available and what you get with the powder measure is just a starting spout.

You'll end up with several sooner or later. Better make it sooner...

And Pyrodex? What's Pyrodex?

Get some real Black Powder and go shooting.

Willie

.

arcticap · August 9, 2012, 05:13 AM

AFAIK except for Swiss black powder, Pryodex P produces more velocity from revolvers than an equal volume of the same granulation of all the other black powders. That serves to illustrate how every powder has some advantages and disadvantages.
I measure out the powder charges beforehand and store them in medicine bottles. Then pour the powder into the chambers with the help of a small funnel. But I do load the cylinder off the frame using a loading press which provides easier access for the funnel.
Some folks buy narrow capped vials or tubes for storing their powder charges in which might make it easier to pour powder directly into the chambers than with medicine bottles. The tubes come in different lengths too.

mykeal · August 9, 2012, 06:39 AM

Adjustable powder (volume) measures are notoriously inaccurate. I have 4 that don't agree within 15%. The same goes for spouts.

However, the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter - one of the best kept secrets in black powder shooting. What DOES matter is that you be consistent in making up your loads. So, pick one adjustable measure and stick with it. Adjust the flask spouts by trimming them to work with that adjustable measure.

And don't go getting all hinky about whether you're measuring 21.1 grains or 20.9 grains, for Pete's sake. 5 grains accuracy is plenty close enough. Unless you're shooting national bench rest competition, in which case there's already no hope for you - sleepless nights are ahead.

thallub · August 9, 2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

I placed some pyrodex 3fg in the flask, set the powder measure for 30 grains, measured out the powder per instructions and got about 22gr into the powder measure instead of the anticipated 30.

Is that 22 grains by weight or volume? Pyrodex is lighter in weight than blackpowder. 30 grains of Pyrodex by volume should weigh about 22 grains.

http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

Hawg · August 9, 2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Is that 22 grains by weight or volume? Pyrodex is lighter in weight than blackpowder. 30 grains of Pyrodex by volume should weigh about 22 grains.

Forget weighing Pyrodex and stick to volume.

Noz · August 9, 2012, 10:55 AM

The full length 30 gr spouts throw a weighed charge of 26 grs of FFg on my scale.

Close enough.

Fingers McGee · August 9, 2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushmaster

So...do I now need to go buy a micro scale for hundreds of dollars? Lets hear it from the peanut gallery. I for one, lean towards trusting the adjustable measure. what say U???

Cabelas has electronic scales starting at $30....... and you can get them cheaper from evil-bay.

Different powders have different densities and will generally not have the same volumetric and weighed values. The volumetric measurements on spouts and measures are nominal weight equivalents for what ever powder was used as a standard. Vakues can vary wildly depending on what powder you are trying to measure - as evidenced by the variance with that P stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noz

The full length 30 gr spouts throw a weighed charge of 26 grs of FFg on my scale.

Close enough.

By comparison, a few months ago there was a thread running on one of the forums about volume vs weight of BP. Just for grins, I weighed fffg Grafs powder from the some of the spouts I keep in my possibles bag and regularly use. Each spout got 10 charges weighed to get a good average. Spouts used were all marked with a grain amount stamped on the side. Results were:

18 grain spout averaged 18.7 grains
21 grain spout averaged 22.0 grains
24 grain spout averaged 29.0 grains
30 grain spout averaged 31.8 grains
Adjustable pistol measure set at 25 grains averaged 25.7 grains

Other than the 24 grain spout being so far off, they were all pretty close - using fffg powder. The results would likely have been very different using ffg or a sub. One of these days I'll have to do the same with ffg and the subs to see what the difference is.

August 8, 2012, 10:26 PM	#1
bushmaster65 Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 140	conundrum for the day Just opened my shipment from CTD that contained, among other things, my brass range flask with 30 grain spout and adjustable powder measure. I placed some pyrodex 3fg in the flask, set the powder measure for 30 grains, measured out the powder per instructions and got about 22gr into the powder measure instead of the anticipated 30. If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have none at all. So...do I now need to go buy a micro scale for hundreds of dollars? Lets hear it from the peanut gallery. I for one, lean towards trusting the adjustable measure. what say U???

August 9, 2012, 05:13 AM	#3
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	AFAIK except for Swiss black powder, Pryodex P produces more velocity from revolvers than an equal volume of the same granulation of all the other black powders. That serves to illustrate how every powder has some advantages and disadvantages. I measure out the powder charges beforehand and store them in medicine bottles. Then pour the powder into the chambers with the help of a small funnel. But I do load the cylinder off the frame using a loading press which provides easier access for the funnel. Some folks buy narrow capped vials or tubes for storing their powder charges in which might make it easier to pour powder directly into the chambers than with medicine bottles. The tubes come in different lengths too. Last edited by arcticap; August 9, 2012 at 09:48 AM.

August 8, 2012, 10:32 PM	#2
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	If you want other volumes, buy more spouts and trim them to length with a file to make them perfect if you choose. Many lengths are available and what you get with the powder measure is just a starting spout. You'll end up with several sooner or later. Better make it sooner... And Pyrodex? What's Pyrodex? Get some real Black Powder and go shooting. Willie .

August 9, 2012, 06:39 AM	#4
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Adjustable powder (volume) measures are notoriously inaccurate. I have 4 that don't agree within 15%. The same goes for spouts. However, the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter - one of the best kept secrets in black powder shooting. What DOES matter is that you be consistent in making up your loads. So, pick one adjustable measure and stick with it. Adjust the flask spouts by trimming them to work with that adjustable measure. And don't go getting all hinky about whether you're measuring 21.1 grains or 20.9 grains, for Pete's sake. 5 grains accuracy is plenty close enough. Unless you're shooting national bench rest competition, in which case there's already no hope for you - sleepless nights are ahead.

August 9, 2012, 10:55 AM	#7
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	The full length 30 gr spouts throw a weighed charge of 26 grs of FFg on my scale. Close enough.