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Old August 9, 2011, 10:20 AM   #26
zombieslayer
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My judo class has a night where we train with firearm related self defense methods. Also we have a womens self defense class.
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Old August 9, 2011, 12:08 PM   #27
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I will say only one thing. Be careful with your carry rig. Some of them can easily become the "handle" by which you get tossed around in close combat. Certain types of shoulder rigs are notorious for this.
Believe me, a good shoulder throw is a fight ender, as most people do not quickly recover from that far of a drop. I love Krav Maga and my Mantis (Since childhood wushu has been a part of my life.), plus the LINE and MCMAP the Marine Corps taught me.
Nothing, no martial art, including a firearm, is the "end all, be all." I see my H2H training as another tool in my toolbox, along with, and complementing, my knife, pistol, and rifle skills.
As an intelligent human being (You do elect to better protect yourself via firearms, so if you are reading this, you qualify. ) learn all you can and adapt it for you. Size, speed, body type, reflexes, and aggressive qualities (the intangibles of a fighter) vary from person to person. What works for me may (or may not) work for you.
Thinking about close combat when selecting carry gear is just smart thinking to me. Just as picking a size/caliber you can EFFECTIVELY use (and conceal) is much smarter thinking than getting the largest "hand cannon" you can find. I am no expert, I will never claim to be, but I do THINK. Ultimately, the MIND is the best weapon.
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Old August 9, 2011, 01:08 PM   #28
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I intend no offense, but have to wonder when so many spend so much money and time to take course after course to prepare for something that has about as much liklihood of happening as being struck by lightning
Without adjusting for exposure to the risk due to behavior, it appears that you are 3300 times more likely to be a victim of violent crime than to be struck by lightning (2009 FBI violent crime stats, NWS report on injuries from lightning).

Your risk in any year of being struck by lightning is about 1:775,000. Your risk of being a victim of violent crime in any year is about 4:1000.

Your lifetime risk (80 yrs) of being struck by lightning is about 1:10000

Your lifetime risk (80 yrs) of being a victim of violent crime approaches 1:3

Your risk of being hit by lightning can be almost entirely mitigated. In contrast violent crime can hit you anywhere at any time, it is most likely to catch you unaware and unprepared precisely where you believe you are the safest.
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Old August 9, 2011, 01:48 PM   #29
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[Your lifetime risk (80 yrs) of being a victim of violent crime approaches 1:3]

The statistics evidently do not take into consideration where you live, and how you live. I know a lot of folks in the 80 year range, and not one that has ever been a victim of a violent crime. I have to reject that statistic. If one lived in a ghetto it would be different, but not in average neighborhoods. In a ghetto I suspect that the odds are pretty great that you will be a victim, because that is the way the gangs operate.

However, statics aside, and I may have overstated the lack of danger, the danger is so small that I have never known anyone who needed either a gun or martial arts for defense unless they frequented bars or other places and at night.

I know of folks who take every course they can find. If they want to spend money and time then have at it. But the odds of needed it to save yourself or family are miniscule.
I think it is either a sport or maybe some macho thinking. Either is OK with me.

As I reflect on this, I don't know anyone who has been struck by lightning either.

Regards,
Jerry
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Old August 9, 2011, 02:43 PM   #30
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I've been working on a lot of retention techniques for guns, both with and without a knife. I don't carry, because I don't have a reason to in my mind, and I don't have a handgun at the moment. Most of what has been mentioned is what I would have said, there's not much out there that I have seen. I do it for fun, and for the knowledge.

Personally, I am far more worried about a threat at close distances than I am at range. Mostly because it's far more likely to be at close range, after an argument or some other situation I've likely been dragged into. To me a gun is to be used against a gun at ranges that allow this. I find it's more effective to worry about getting cover than shooting back. Call me stupid, but I don't think carrying a gun for defense makes you smarter than anyone else.
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Old August 9, 2011, 05:33 PM   #31
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I hesitate to point out that the plural of anecdote is not data.

Your personal experience notwithstanding, my point is simply that investment of time, energy, and coin to gain some confidence in being able to respond somewhat appropriately when victimized is not clearly a foolish investment.

I presented the odds since that was how you started your characterization of the risks involved. As I stated above, the odds do not account for effects associated with exposure time. Some folks clearly are effectively at zero risk of lightning strikes (simply because they're always inside), while others enjoy a much higher risk.

The bigger point, is that while you can clearly make choices that affect your risk of being a victim of violent crime, it is not at all clear that you can reduce that risk to the same level as that of being struck by lightning. Effectively, there is NO place that is free of crime.
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Old August 9, 2011, 05:58 PM   #32
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ATG Worldwide in Northeast Ohio offers a Personal Defense course. It is taught by a Navy SEAL(16 years active Team member, currently active reserves). It is an excellent class. I took it and learned alot. If you want to travel, or if you live in Ohio/PA ,I highly recommend the course.

There website is www.atgworldwide.us
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Old August 10, 2011, 09:03 PM   #33
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The lightning you can't prepare for. Fighting you can.
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Old August 12, 2011, 06:05 AM   #34
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"Reality won’t care what your favorite skill is, or if you’ve never practiced the skill you need right then!" - Dave Sauer, Suarez International Instructor
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Old August 12, 2011, 08:08 AM   #35
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I guess some prefer donuts and tv to a workout and some training... There are much less applicable things people prepare for. I really dont understand this anti-preparedness sentiment.
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Old August 12, 2011, 08:55 AM   #36
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zombieslayer, I suspect in some cases it's one of those, "I can't do this due to physical iimitations, but don't want to admit it to myself, so to ease my own mind I'll downplay the possible importance or utility of such training" things.
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Old August 12, 2011, 09:23 AM   #37
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might want to look at silat - I know they have a lot of use w/ bladed weapons, and a little bit even of firearms. Also disarms for bladed weapons and firearms, etc.
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Old August 12, 2011, 11:38 AM   #38
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My best friend trains hard at judo. Hes a brown belt. He stands 5 feet tall and weighs a buck ten. Ive seen him defend himself using judo. Muscle memory is the key to applying sd techniques of any kind.
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Old August 12, 2011, 11:40 AM   #39
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zombieslayer, muscle memory is key in most any physical endeavor. Another factor, which people often disregard, is the value of simplicity. IE, flashy techniques are mostly for show. The things that work best are usually the simplest. This is most likely due to the ease of repetitive training with the simpler techniques.
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Old August 12, 2011, 03:52 PM   #40
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Simple is good, because it usually implies economy of motion, efficiency, speed and ease of training. That's probably why versions of the single and double leg takedowns are so common in many martial arts.
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Old August 14, 2011, 10:16 PM   #41
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This question is kind of off the wall, but does anyone sell replica, de-milled, or otherwise not-fireable guns for martial arts training? If the MA / self-defense instructor permitted, I'd love to practice with an unshootable S&W 642 in my Mica pocket holster just to get a feel for it. (I don't have an instructor yet so it is a hypothetical question.) Something that I wouldn't mind someone grabbing for during a sort of grappling drill or something....

Just a thought.
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Old August 14, 2011, 11:28 PM   #42
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There are plastic replicas available. Look in LE training equipment supply shops.
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Old August 15, 2011, 05:28 PM   #43
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I decided to take Mr. Nice's nice advice.

I am sure I have seen Red Guns in a store somewhere before ... I just didn't know what they were for.

Now I do, and that is the last rhyming post I shall ever do.
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Old August 15, 2011, 11:09 PM   #44
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The most effective martial art for firearms is far and away called Marksmanship.
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Old August 15, 2011, 11:35 PM   #45
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The most effective martial art for firearms is far and away called Marksmanship.
The most effective martial art, was my Niece taking my pistol (RIA/CS .45) from me in about .03 seconds from a cross draw holster.

Before I tried drew it ...................

She Teaches Krav.
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Old August 16, 2011, 12:26 PM   #46
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One more food for thought: Situational Awareness- a state in which you are aware and alert for possible threats, AND prepared to act. Anyone, no matter what skill, if caught unaware, is very easily taken down.
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Old August 16, 2011, 05:58 PM   #47
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I agree with the sentiment that while violent crime is a lower possibility than some here would admit, it is a very real one none the less and should be prepared for accordingly.

But while we're on the subject of risk management, what are you doing to mitigate the far more likely risks? Are you overweight? Stroke and heart disease kill far far more people than criminals in America. Ever taken a driving class? Car accidents are much more common than violent crime. Do you smoke? Drink too much? Ride a motorcycle without a helmet? Have regular checkups, including colonoscopy for the men over 50? How much life insurance do you have?

The "I just want to be prepared to take care of my family" line becomes less valid when that preparation is focussed largely or exclusively on one specific, fairly low, risk.
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Old August 16, 2011, 08:14 PM   #48
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kapap.

Taught by Avi Nardia.

I could sit here and tell you what I know of the guy's ability, or if you're serious about this, you could research him and find out what this guy is capable of teaching you.
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Old August 16, 2011, 08:53 PM   #49
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Avi Nardia google search turns up a lot of fraud allegations. Even if they aren't all true, it has to make you wonder about his legitimacy.
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Old August 18, 2011, 08:52 PM   #50
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Hard truth ...

(1) 99.9% of fights in the real world hit the ground with no clear resolution ... 'til you get there.

Therefore, ground fighting/grappling skills are super critical, whether or not, while standing, you can slug away like Joe Frazier.

(2) Most people who "train" for combat, especially the young guys I see, really need to lay off the beer and late-night eats (so as to reduce the "gut-age").

IOWs, you should be doing more crunches and ab-work at the gym than you presently do. (i.e., talking loud in the local houch-joint and swilling brewskis on a Thursday night doesn't make you the next MMA champ).

Just sayin'
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