Fighting dirty? - Page 2

rifleman8 · May 17, 2011, 08:32 PM

There needs to be a really good reason for me to fight someone. 99.9 percent of the time I will walk away from any conflict. However, if I am attacked, I will do whatever necessary to incapacitate the attacker, preferably within 30 seconds. If you are involved in a fight any longer than that, you shouldn't be fighting, you should be running.

shootniron · May 17, 2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

While you may be arrested for defending yourself

If I am gonna be arrested anyway.....hell, I might as well shoot him.

Ringolevio · May 17, 2011, 10:24 PM

I want to expand on what a number of others have said, and which we discussed in the thread on "Non-lethal Weapons".

Fighting with nothing but your hands belongs only in the ring and in the movies.

My generation was raised on movies and TV that taught us that only a bad guy would pick up a chair and break it over his opponent's back. We were also taught "No hitting below the belt" and "You don't kick a man when he's down."

But in the real world, the first rule of streetfighting is "Have something in your hand." And when a man is down is exactly when you should kick him. If you put him on the ground, you have to make sure he doesn't get up under his own steam. And kicking him makes more sense because if you kneel down to punch him (like in the movies), that's when his partner will kick you in the head.

Buzzcook · May 17, 2011, 11:22 PM

Fighting dirty is a concept reserved for the ring, where there are rules.

A better idea is to fight smart. Learn the basics of self defense, practice them, and keep in shape. You'll be better than 90% of the guys out there.

Of course for those of us over a certain age weapons make things easier.

champ198 · May 18, 2011, 12:27 PM

in a hand to hand combat fight there is only one rule in my book...there are no rules....im a small guy at 5'10" 180 or so and not in the best shape...i used to be pretty heavy in martial arts back in my early 20s..in my 30s now and got fatter and lazier...aint no fight fair dont care what it is...i dont ever plan on fighting fair...ever...ill use whatever possible to win weather it be a rock or a twig dont matter to me...if its there and i can get it ill use it...period

**Spats McGee** · May 18, 2011, 12:40 PM

I like the way egor20 put it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by egor20

IMHO a "fair" is a place to look at horses, sheep and goats, eat cotton candy and ride the ferris wheel. A fight is a bit different. I prefer fairs myself.

I'm over the hill, out of shape, and haven't been in a physical fight in about 30 years. I have a wife and daughter who depend on me. I think we can all do the math from there. An attacker forfeits any right to claim, "No fair!" Fair takes a backseat to survival.

HiBC · May 18, 2011, 12:59 PM

There is something about using your head first.Best to not be in the situation.
But,you can get unlucky enough get attacked.
If you find yourself in a fair fight,your tactics sock.
I will not sport or ego fight.The rules are pretty much the same as for deadly force self defense.And then,the whole point would be inflicting grave damage by any means possible.

Claude Clay · May 18, 2011, 01:27 PM

if someone is meaning to be wrong to me i am going to give them every chance they will allow me to to go away.
that has worked for me and up until the 1st thing i have to do is the last thing i want to do--shoot to protect me & mine, I'll continue to be that way.

besides, what BG wants to be in a 'fair' fight. they pick the fight cause they think they have the upper hand. the trick is to show them they are wrong before they are too close to you to wave off. situational awareness is your job--all the time.

Hog Hunter · May 18, 2011, 01:35 PM

In a street fight there are no rules so I dont belive there is dirty fighting. I will do what I have to do to take my opponent out as quick as possible and be the last man standing. I try not to fight anymore and havnt been in one in a while. Although me and my buddys do like to box a lil bit just to mesure our egos I reckon. Usally on a friday or saturday night after a few cold one go down. Its all in fun and we shake hands when the gloves come off.

YARDDOG(1) · May 18, 2011, 01:53 PM

IF I'm to fight someone, I'll make my own rules

Y/D

ChrisJ715 · May 18, 2011, 02:04 PM

Well said everyone. No rules in a real fight. As my martial arts teacher is fond of saying, Making it home to your family alive, that is what counts.

Ronbert · May 18, 2011, 02:26 PM

But you have to keep in mind the jury fight for your freedom later.

This means that if you've put the guy out for a bit you still can't kill him. Even if you're still really, really angry and he really, really deserves it.

When the fight hits pause, it's time to run away/get help/call 911.

markj · May 18, 2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

How hard and dirty are you willing to fight in a street fight?

Most folks wont fight me, they get hurt too bad. Heck I could trip and fall on someone and darn near kill em. Grew up fighting nasty, rip off a ear guy will leave you alone, or make em do the chicken, they will leave you alone. (To learn about the chicken, read the choirboys)
Better leave the nice stuff to the ring guys, in the street there is no ref to stop it once someone gets hurt.

old bear · May 18, 2011, 02:37 PM

At my age anyone who attempts to fight fair, what ever that is, is a fool. The last fight I was in was 10 + years ago, we ended up on the ground and it was not ending as fast as I had hoped for, so I bit the son of a bitch on his right arm. I mean BIT drew blood and all. That ended the fight then. Cops arrived he called me a sissy for biting and I called him lefty.

Naby · May 19, 2011, 07:48 AM

If you are involved in a fight of any kind where your (or somebody your defending's) life even appears to be at stake I believe in using every method possible and as much force as I have available to me to viciously and quickly win the fight and incapacitate and stop the attacker(s). This follows many other opinions, just stated in a different way.

jhenry · May 19, 2011, 08:15 AM

A wise man once said "There is no second place winner" Any real fight is going to find me getting as dirty and underhanded as I can possibly manage.

Daugherty16 · May 19, 2011, 08:49 AM

However, when it is time to fight, or pull the gun, you must be first on the draw.

As a kid, in the schoolyard, there was "reputation" to think of. In an assault, there is only survival to consider. There are no rules except blitzkreig.

I'm older, a little heavier, and not as strong as i used to be, but i can still grapple someone and strike them in the adams apple two or three times, a several nasty uppercuts to the chin and nose, locked thumb gouged into an eye - all this in a furious flurry of about 2 seconds or less. Then destroy their knee or break down an elbow or distend the shoulder joint as i'm spinning away. Then i'm running away, as fast as my carcass can wobble down the street.

People don't keep fighting when they:
a) cant breathe
b) can't see
c) cant stand up
d) can't feel their arm
e) are in excruciating pain (not always, but it definitely detracts from their concentration).

In a multiple attacker situation, you have to do this to the biggest toughest guy there - and fast - and you're still probably gonna get a bad beating. But maybe not. If you've just destroyed the "leader" in a mere couple of seconds, the next one may hesitate to jump in.

I'm thinking seriously about buying a cane - that has a 1 million volt stun gun built in. There are distinct advantages to carrying a striking weapon, especially one that has the ability to incapacitate an attacker. Either that or a sjambok - a very useful piece of plastic. The south African riot squads used them to great effect in the past. Of course theirs were rhino skin, but the plastic ones are pretty devastating too. Check them out.

http://www.donrearic.com/mightysjambok.html

irish52084 · May 19, 2011, 10:37 AM

It's good to hear everyone's wiling to do what's necessary to survive.

I've always been a big guy and physically imposing, but I'm not an aggressive or confrontational person. I have rarely had people mess with me or want any sort of altercation, especially since I was about 14 and I really grew into my body. I was 6' and 200 lbs by 14 and had been grappling with adults since 11, so I got pretty strong pretty quick and I leaned how to get beat about 100 times over. lol That was a great lesson in humility and just how bad of an idea it is to fight unless you absolutely have to.

I'm growing more and more fond of getting some more serious training with a knife. I carry one most of the time anyway and my basic knife training could use some serious sharpening. See what I did there?

Mike38 · May 19, 2011, 10:52 AM

My father told me when I was a teen, never get into a fight with someone over the age of 50. At that age, you have nothing to loose. A guy 50+ will do anything to win. Anything. Groin shots, gouge eyes, pull hair, scratch, bite, you name it they will do it and do it quickly. I have always remembered that, and now that I’m over 50, I realize my father was right. The only fair fight is the one you win. Not that I’m looking for a fight, because pain hurts. But if I had no choice, no chance to flee, and was convinced my life was in danger, I’d do anything to survive.

EastKY_DO · May 19, 2011, 11:07 AM

Whatever it takes to win is fair in a fight. If there are rules to follow, then it's not a fight, but a sporting event.

Sporting events occur between willing participants. Fights occur between a perpetrator & a defender.

Couzin · May 19, 2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

I'm 50 and disabled, and yes, if I can't get to my weapon I through. I have a dislocated fractured vertebrae in my neck and plagued with chronic pain, I'm easy to give an asswhip'n too.

BS! 62 and disabled - but it ain't gonna be a 'fair fight' - I will be fighting to save my life - there will be no 'rules'!! I have been fortunate enough to have had a background of both street brawls as a youth and formal defensive/offensive training later. There are lots of ways to take the 'fight' outta someone with minimal effort. I suggest some training (it can be done even if creaky and disabled - trust me). Maybe some krav maga (we never had a name for it, it was just eye gougin, ear peelin, finger breakin, etc.).

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck." — John Steinbeck

MLeake · May 19, 2011, 11:58 AM

I'm not even sure why this is a question. Off the mat, or outside the ring, the issue isn't about "winning," it's about survival.

Fight with rules when it's a sport. Fight to survive when it's a battle.

Pretty simple, really.

m17s_guy · May 19, 2011, 12:10 PM

and the general consensus is:

1. Don't mess with the older guys, they don't have enough energy left to fight you. They will just shoot you.

2. Watch out for the younger guys, they bite

Plain and simple in a street fight/ assault situation, first thoughts should be to disable your opponent. Striking joints to make them bend in directions that they are not supposed to is a great tactic. When someones knee bends left or right, when it is supposed to be forward/backward puts them on the ground, no matter how much adrenaline they have. As for kicking someone while they are one the ground, in most states that goes beyond the use of justified force for self defense. At that point you should be retreating and calling LE for backup. If the assailant gets up and comes to assault you again you should already be condition 1 and draw down while the police are en-route. Showing a little restraint will keep you from being charged with assault in a self defense situation.

JerryM · May 19, 2011, 03:23 PM

Fighting in the street is not a game. For me it is an attack that is likely to take my life so guess what?

I cannot imagine why I would get in a "street fight." Even in my youth I never thought I was tough, and never saw any reason to prove I wasn't. A lot of young guys have to learn that the hard way or by "The schools of hard knocks."

By staying away from bars and tough areas I never had a single fight. How do some of you get in them and where do they happen?

Regards,
Jerry

BeachHead · May 19, 2011, 04:24 PM

Wrong place, wrong time?

Someone mentioned that staying fit and learning basic self-defense would put you above 90% of would-be assailants (not sure what exactly the user stated, but you get the gist).

I'd have to disagree, at least a little. I took Muay Thai and BJJ for 4 years and honestly some of the guys in the gym weren't very good people. With the popularization of MMA, more and more people are learning to fight, even if for the wrong reasons. That's why I say to win at all costs -- within reasonable self-defense parameters, of course. No one wants to die or be put in a coma. I'm sure we all agree on that.

May 17, 2011, 10:24 PM	#28
Ringolevio Junior member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Where the Kaw meets the Mighty Mo Posts: 241	Fighting "fair" I want to expand on what a number of others have said, and which we discussed in the thread on "Non-lethal Weapons". Fighting with nothing but your hands belongs only in the ring and in the movies. My generation was raised on movies and TV that taught us that only a bad guy would pick up a chair and break it over his opponent's back. We were also taught "No hitting below the belt" and "You don't kick a man when he's down." But in the real world, the first rule of streetfighting is "Have something in your hand." And when a man is down is exactly when you should kick him. If you put him on the ground, you have to make sure he doesn't get up under his own steam. And kicking him makes more sense because if you kneel down to punch him (like in the movies), that's when his partner will kick you in the head.

May 18, 2011, 01:27 PM	#33
Claude Clay Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2007 Location: CT Posts: 325	if someone is meaning to be wrong to me i am going to give them every chance they will allow me to to go away. that has worked for me and up until the 1st thing i have to do is the last thing i want to do--shoot to protect me & mine, I'll continue to be that way. besides, what BG wants to be in a 'fair' fight. they pick the fight cause they think they have the upper hand. the trick is to show them they are wrong before they are too close to you to wave off. situational awareness is your job--all the time. __________________ NRA Instructor -- NRA Basic Pistol & Re-Loading Make a fire for a man and you warm him for the night Light him on fire and you warm him for the rest of his life

May 18, 2011, 01:53 PM	#35
YARDDOG(1) Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: GATOR COUNTRY HA HA HA! Posts: 721	IF I'm to fight someone, I'll make my own rules Y/D __________________ There's a GATOR in the bushes & She's Callin my name >Molly Hatchett<

May 19, 2011, 08:15 AM	#41
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	A wise man once said "There is no second place winner" Any real fight is going to find me getting as dirty and underhanded as I can possibly manage. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer

May 19, 2011, 08:49 AM	#42
Daugherty16 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Live Free or Die state Posts: 259	Fighting is a last resort; just like pulling a gun. However, when it is time to fight, or pull the gun, you must be first on the draw. As a kid, in the schoolyard, there was "reputation" to think of. In an assault, there is only survival to consider. There are no rules except blitzkreig. I'm older, a little heavier, and not as strong as i used to be, but i can still grapple someone and strike them in the adams apple two or three times, a several nasty uppercuts to the chin and nose, locked thumb gouged into an eye - all this in a furious flurry of about 2 seconds or less. Then destroy their knee or break down an elbow or distend the shoulder joint as i'm spinning away. Then i'm running away, as fast as my carcass can wobble down the street. People don't keep fighting when they: a) cant breathe b) can't see c) cant stand up d) can't feel their arm e) are in excruciating pain (not always, but it definitely detracts from their concentration). In a multiple attacker situation, you have to do this to the biggest toughest guy there - and fast - and you're still probably gonna get a bad beating. But maybe not. If you've just destroyed the "leader" in a mere couple of seconds, the next one may hesitate to jump in. I'm thinking seriously about buying a cane - that has a 1 million volt stun gun built in. There are distinct advantages to carrying a striking weapon, especially one that has the ability to incapacitate an attacker. Either that or a sjambok - a very useful piece of plastic. The south African riot squads used them to great effect in the past. Of course theirs were rhino skin, but the plastic ones are pretty devastating too. Check them out. http://www.donrearic.com/mightysjambok.html __________________ "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness... How pathetic." - - Ted Nugent "Cogito, Ergo Armitum Sum" - (I Think, Therefore I Am Armed)- - anon.

May 17, 2011, 08:32 PM	#26
rifleman8 Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Location: southeast PA Posts: 72	There needs to be a really good reason for me to fight someone. 99.9 percent of the time I will walk away from any conflict. However, if I am attacked, I will do whatever necessary to incapacitate the attacker, preferably within 30 seconds. If you are involved in a fight any longer than that, you shouldn't be fighting, you should be running.

May 17, 2011, 11:22 PM	#29
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Fighting dirty is a concept reserved for the ring, where there are rules. A better idea is to fight smart. Learn the basics of self defense, practice them, and keep in shape. You'll be better than 90% of the guys out there. Of course for those of us over a certain age weapons make things easier.

May 18, 2011, 12:27 PM	#30
champ198 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Posts: 217	in a hand to hand combat fight there is only one rule in my book...there are no rules....im a small guy at 5'10" 180 or so and not in the best shape...i used to be pretty heavy in martial arts back in my early 20s..in my 30s now and got fatter and lazier...aint no fight fair dont care what it is...i dont ever plan on fighting fair...ever...ill use whatever possible to win weather it be a rock or a twig dont matter to me...if its there and i can get it ill use it...period

May 18, 2011, 12:59 PM	#32
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	There is something about using your head first.Best to not be in the situation. But,you can get unlucky enough get attacked. If you find yourself in a fair fight,your tactics sock. I will not sport or ego fight.The rules are pretty much the same as for deadly force self defense.And then,the whole point would be inflicting grave damage by any means possible.

May 18, 2011, 01:35 PM	#34
Hog Hunter Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 386	In a street fight there are no rules so I dont belive there is dirty fighting. I will do what I have to do to take my opponent out as quick as possible and be the last man standing. I try not to fight anymore and havnt been in one in a while. Although me and my buddys do like to box a lil bit just to mesure our egos I reckon. Usally on a friday or saturday night after a few cold one go down. Its all in fun and we shake hands when the gloves come off.

May 18, 2011, 02:04 PM	#36
ChrisJ715 Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2011 Location: Small town in eastern KY Posts: 155	Well said everyone. No rules in a real fight. As my martial arts teacher is fond of saying, Making it home to your family alive, that is what counts.

May 18, 2011, 02:26 PM	#37
Ronbert Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2009 Location: Ft. Collins, CO. Posts: 398	But you have to keep in mind the jury fight for your freedom later. This means that if you've put the guy out for a bit you still can't kill him. Even if you're still really, really angry and he really, really deserves it. When the fight hits pause, it's time to run away/get help/call 911.

May 18, 2011, 02:37 PM	#39
old bear Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Not close enough to the beach Posts: 1,477	At my age anyone who attempts to fight fair, what ever that is, is a fool. The last fight I was in was 10 + years ago, we ended up on the ground and it was not ending as fast as I had hoped for, so I bit the son of a bitch on his right arm. I mean BIT drew blood and all. That ended the fight then. Cops arrived he called me a sissy for biting and I called him lefty.

May 19, 2011, 07:48 AM	#40
Naby Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 50	If you are involved in a fight of any kind where your (or somebody your defending's) life even appears to be at stake I believe in using every method possible and as much force as I have available to me to viciously and quickly win the fight and incapacitate and stop the attacker(s). This follows many other opinions, just stated in a different way.

May 19, 2011, 10:37 AM	#43
irish52084 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Location: Washington, the state, not that "other" one. Posts: 514	It's good to hear everyone's wiling to do what's necessary to survive. I've always been a big guy and physically imposing, but I'm not an aggressive or confrontational person. I have rarely had people mess with me or want any sort of altercation, especially since I was about 14 and I really grew into my body. I was 6' and 200 lbs by 14 and had been grappling with adults since 11, so I got pretty strong pretty quick and I leaned how to get beat about 100 times over. lol That was a great lesson in humility and just how bad of an idea it is to fight unless you absolutely have to. I'm growing more and more fond of getting some more serious training with a knife. I carry one most of the time anyway and my basic knife training could use some serious sharpening. See what I did there?

May 19, 2011, 10:52 AM	#44
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	My father told me when I was a teen, never get into a fight with someone over the age of 50. At that age, you have nothing to loose. A guy 50+ will do anything to win. Anything. Groin shots, gouge eyes, pull hair, scratch, bite, you name it they will do it and do it quickly. I have always remembered that, and now that I’m over 50, I realize my father was right. The only fair fight is the one you win. Not that I’m looking for a fight, because pain hurts. But if I had no choice, no chance to flee, and was convinced my life was in danger, I’d do anything to survive.

May 19, 2011, 11:07 AM	#45
EastKY_DO Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Posts: 69	Whatever it takes to win is fair in a fight. If there are rules to follow, then it's not a fight, but a sporting event. Sporting events occur between willing participants. Fights occur between a perpetrator & a defender. __________________ Doc NRA-Patron --- A ship in the harbor is safe but that is not what ships are for.

May 19, 2011, 11:58 AM	#47
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	I'm not even sure why this is a question. Off the mat, or outside the ring, the issue isn't about "winning," it's about survival. Fight with rules when it's a sport. Fight to survive when it's a battle. Pretty simple, really.

May 19, 2011, 12:10 PM	#48
m17s_guy Member Join Date: February 1, 2011 Location: Georgia Posts: 92	and the general consensus is: 1. Don't mess with the older guys, they don't have enough energy left to fight you. They will just shoot you. 2. Watch out for the younger guys, they bite Plain and simple in a street fight/ assault situation, first thoughts should be to disable your opponent. Striking joints to make them bend in directions that they are not supposed to is a great tactic. When someones knee bends left or right, when it is supposed to be forward/backward puts them on the ground, no matter how much adrenaline they have. As for kicking someone while they are one the ground, in most states that goes beyond the use of justified force for self defense. At that point you should be retreating and calling LE for backup. If the assailant gets up and comes to assault you again you should already be condition 1 and draw down while the police are en-route. Showing a little restraint will keep you from being charged with assault in a self defense situation. __________________ if at first you dont succeed, get a bigger hammer!

May 19, 2011, 03:23 PM	#49
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	Fighting in the street is not a game. For me it is an attack that is likely to take my life so guess what? I cannot imagine why I would get in a "street fight." Even in my youth I never thought I was tough, and never saw any reason to prove I wasn't. A lot of young guys have to learn that the hard way or by "The schools of hard knocks." By staying away from bars and tough areas I never had a single fight. How do some of you get in them and where do they happen? Regards, Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

May 19, 2011, 04:24 PM	#50
BeachHead Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2005 Location: Castro Valley, CA Posts: 132	Wrong place, wrong time? Someone mentioned that staying fit and learning basic self-defense would put you above 90% of would-be assailants (not sure what exactly the user stated, but you get the gist). I'd have to disagree, at least a little. I took Muay Thai and BJJ for 4 years and honestly some of the guys in the gym weren't very good people. With the popularization of MMA, more and more people are learning to fight, even if for the wrong reasons. That's why I say to win at all costs -- within reasonable self-defense parameters, of course. No one wants to die or be put in a coma. I'm sure we all agree on that.