Which more likely - pump short stroke or semi malfunction?

70extreme · December 8, 2010, 12:09 PM

Let say you took two equally well trained people:

One with a Remington 870 HD
One with a Benelli M2 or FN SLP Mark 1

You wake them up at 2:00am and add the dynamic deadly stress of a home invasion.

Which is more likely to occur? The semi auto malfunctioning or the pump guy short shucking his 870?

To me, this is the essence of the pump vs. semi auto debate.

hogdogs · December 8, 2010, 12:21 PM

Both stored "cruiser ready" empty chamber? Each gun in the hands of the owner with experience with that firearm? I would say that gun cleanliness would be a factor... The semi could fail to load fully and engage the trigger...

As for second round, the semi would have the failability of any device expected to operate without human influence and so many possible variables in play...

Brent

hardworker · December 8, 2010, 12:21 PM

The Benelli's I've used have been nothing but reliable. Short stroking a pump is possible with any pump though. However, the debate here is one that will never be solved. Semi's have come a long way but, like the 9 vs 45 debate, some people refuse to admit they're arguing a non-issue. A lot of people point to the cocking sound a pump makes. This argument sounds good until you remember that a semi makes a plenty of noise when you rack it as well. Get the one that handles best for you, and don't worry about the tactics of pump vs semi.

As for the dirtiness issue, I don't clean my shotguns more than once every hundred or so shots and it never has a problem. Having a speck of residue in a gun will not make it a jamomatic.

johnwilliamson062 · December 8, 2010, 12:22 PM

"two equally well trained people"
Are they well trained or poorly trained?
How are the weapons maintained?

TrumpetShooter · December 8, 2010, 12:25 PM

I wouldn't trust the semi-auto. To me, they are like women. Just when you think you have them figured out, they do something unexpected. A possible second shot is more scarey to me, because you add the possibility of an ammo failure, which would void a possible follow-up shot.

I would trust the pump to work properly, especially in a high-adrenaline situation. For me at least, my strength and physicality are heightened by the fear factor, making it less likely that I would short shuck the action.

On the other hand, I see the semi-auto gun as having two possible failures: one being one of those flukey, inexplicable jams; the other being a brain fart due to nervousness or fear.

hardworker · December 8, 2010, 12:45 PM

not trusting modern semi's is like not trusting glocks. anecdotal evident abounds for the reliability of both.

BILLtheDJguy · December 8, 2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Having a speck of residue in a gun will not make it a jamomatic.

Unless its a Remington 742...lol

I believe that a pump owner has fantasized about the day (night) that they get to test the theory about the sound of a 12ga racking off and the effect on the sucks-to-be-you, intruder...I would think that they would get it right, and the adrenaline would almost ensure that the stroke was sufficient.
Just my thoughts on the matter....

Donaldjr1969 · December 8, 2010, 04:36 PM

Unless you had full control over the loads themselves, I would say the semi still probably could malfunction more. One could always get a factory squib that may not cycle the action of a semi.

Me personally, I will never rack the slide of a pumpgun to try to scare the intruders off. One, you just alerted them you are armed and two, you most likely gave away your location in the house. Either case and you lost the element of surprise, especially if the intruders are armed themselves. My shotgun is kept in the 1911 equivalent of Condition One. I merely need to disengage the safety. On the Winchester 1300, the safety is at the front of the trigger guard so it is very easy for me to disengage. I used to keep the safety off but I do not want to grab the trigger in an adrenaline rush and discharge before I am ready. Either way, I am not going to waste time pumping the gun to try to scare people off.

December 8, 2010, 12:09 PM	#1
70extreme Member Join Date: November 19, 2010 Posts: 33	Which more likely - pump short stroke or semi malfunction? Let say you took two equally well trained people: One with a Remington 870 HD One with a Benelli M2 or FN SLP Mark 1 You wake them up at 2:00am and add the dynamic deadly stress of a home invasion. Which is more likely to occur? The semi auto malfunctioning or the pump guy short shucking his 870? To me, this is the essence of the pump vs. semi auto debate.

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December 8, 2010, 12:21 PM	#2
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Both stored "cruiser ready" empty chamber? Each gun in the hands of the owner with experience with that firearm? I would say that gun cleanliness would be a factor... The semi could fail to load fully and engage the trigger... As for second round, the semi would have the failability of any device expected to operate without human influence and so many possible variables in play... Brent

December 8, 2010, 12:21 PM	#3
hardworker Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2010 Posts: 820	The Benelli's I've used have been nothing but reliable. Short stroking a pump is possible with any pump though. However, the debate here is one that will never be solved. Semi's have come a long way but, like the 9 vs 45 debate, some people refuse to admit they're arguing a non-issue. A lot of people point to the cocking sound a pump makes. This argument sounds good until you remember that a semi makes a plenty of noise when you rack it as well. Get the one that handles best for you, and don't worry about the tactics of pump vs semi. As for the dirtiness issue, I don't clean my shotguns more than once every hundred or so shots and it never has a problem. Having a speck of residue in a gun will not make it a jamomatic.

December 8, 2010, 12:22 PM	#4
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	"two equally well trained people" Are they well trained or poorly trained? How are the weapons maintained?

December 8, 2010, 12:25 PM	#5
TrumpetShooter Member Join Date: December 1, 2004 Posts: 42	I wouldn't trust the semi-auto. To me, they are like women. Just when you think you have them figured out, they do something unexpected. A possible second shot is more scarey to me, because you add the possibility of an ammo failure, which would void a possible follow-up shot. I would trust the pump to work properly, especially in a high-adrenaline situation. For me at least, my strength and physicality are heightened by the fear factor, making it less likely that I would short shuck the action. On the other hand, I see the semi-auto gun as having two possible failures: one being one of those flukey, inexplicable jams; the other being a brain fart due to nervousness or fear.

December 8, 2010, 12:45 PM	#6
hardworker Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2010 Posts: 820	not trusting modern semi's is like not trusting glocks. anecdotal evident abounds for the reliability of both.

December 8, 2010, 04:36 PM	#8
Donaldjr1969 Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 50	Unless you had full control over the loads themselves, I would say the semi still probably could malfunction more. One could always get a factory squib that may not cycle the action of a semi. Me personally, I will never rack the slide of a pumpgun to try to scare the intruders off. One, you just alerted them you are armed and two, you most likely gave away your location in the house. Either case and you lost the element of surprise, especially if the intruders are armed themselves. My shotgun is kept in the 1911 equivalent of Condition One. I merely need to disengage the safety. On the Winchester 1300, the safety is at the front of the trigger guard so it is very easy for me to disengage. I used to keep the safety off but I do not want to grab the trigger in an adrenaline rush and discharge before I am ready. Either way, I am not going to waste time pumping the gun to try to scare people off.