My thanks-for-dumping Zumbo acquisition to Remington

FirstFreedom · April 17, 2007, 04:10 PM

Although it is perhaps going to be the correct thing to do, to fully support Jim Zumbo, from now on, for his about-face on the road to Damascus on that issue (seems like he's truly reformed and deserves our support now), I nevertheless wanted to thank Remington for initially dumping him (as was necessary to make him see the light) after his anti-gun comments.

So, I put on layaway today a new Remington 1187 "Sportsman's Deer" model shotgun. Fully rifled barrel, cantilevered scope mount, 12 ga 2.75 & 3.0", black plastic stock (it doesn't come in a wood version, unfortunately). Plan to:

-Cut barrel to 18" (no, I'm not going to be the 16" test case for my theory - besides, I don't WANT to permanently weld the barrel to the receiver)
-Put an Eotech or Bushnell Holosight on it
-Write a letter to Rem saying "Thanks for dumping Zumbo, but now kindly please support him again."

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...tsman_deer.asp

Doesn't the 1100 have some refinements that the 1187 does not? What are they? Thanks.

This will be my walking-around, jumping-hogs rifle, and (in theory at least) my ultimate anti-P.O.'ed-grizzly bear rig. What should I zero it at, 50, 60, or 75 yards? I'm thinking 60. And what slugs do you recommend trying for top accuracy?

By the way, I had been planning for some time to get a Teppo-Jutsu upper for my AR-10 in .500 Phantom. But the reasons I chose this gun as a substitute for that are:

1. The idea is a short-range hammer of thor - what could be better than a half-inch hammer? (570 gr @ 1,688 fps) Well, a three-quarter inch hammer, of course! (730 gr @ 1,350 fps)
2. The .500 Phantom can do longe range in addition to short range, due to much much better BCs than 12 ga slugs - stuff like .50 BMG bullets - but I wouldn't be using the .500 phantom for that because I have other guns for long range. The one place that the .500 phantom could shine is as a subsonic suppressed project for shooting out to 400 or 500 yards with 1.0+ BC .50 bmg bullets, but this is not a realistic possibility, since the suppressor makers won't sell .50 cal suppressors to non-LEOs, for some reason, even though it would be perfectly legal. I can buy suppressors in .22, .30, .338, 9mm, and .45, but not .50. So, if it can't be suppressed, then it has no advantage over other long-range guns; hence no real use, imagined, real, or otherwise. (the "real" use would be shooting for fun without hearing protection).

FirstFreedom · April 18, 2007, 04:43 PM

Any comments? :-\

Fat White Boy · April 19, 2007, 12:19 AM

The 1187 came after the 1100. My son has an 1187 and the only problem we have encountered is a failure to recycle light loads. The spring is too strong for the weapon to cycle completely with light target and game loads. Now we buy highbase loads for it and it works fine.

Lee Lapin · April 19, 2007, 09:26 AM

If you want an 11-87 with an 18" barrel, I'd suggest you buy one of the LE models that comes with an 18" tube from the factory ( http://www.remingtonle.com/shotguns/1187.htm ). Gas operated shotguns are often very sensitive to gas pressure curves, and cutting down a barrel on a gas gun is not something you can do with the same gleeful abandon you can with a pumpgun.

At the least it is not a DIY job, and will require the attention of a gunsmith who knows how to adjust gas port sizes. And once you start monkeying with barrel length and gas port sizes on gas guns, you often get a gun that is finicky as to the ammo it will shoot reliably, or one that batters itself into nonfunctionality over time. It can be a major can of worms, proceed with caution...

lpl/nc

Smitty in CT · April 19, 2007, 10:04 AM

Just wanted to add a comment about adding an EOTech, a Bushnell HolSight, or even an ACOG...

I bought a Nikon VSD red dot when they 1st came out. You will need to figure out a way to add 1 - 2" of comb height (depending on fit) in order to get a good sight picture with a proper cheek weld.

I wound up using one of those neoprene pad riser kits to get a good fit. It doesn't look pretty, but it gets the job done....

Smitty

FirstFreedom · April 19, 2007, 03:34 PM

Good point, Lee. I knew, or should have known that. I'll prolly leave it 21". I want the cantilevered mount rather than the LE model with iron sights. Besides, the LE model does not have a rifled bbl like I want.

RsqVet · April 19, 2007, 08:01 PM

I love the 11-87, I suspect you will as well. Haivng owned other, perhaps more exotic 12 ga autos the 11-87 is the winner in my book for semi-auto 12's

I have a 11-87 police set up with the scattergun ring sights... contrary to what many will say or have experinced mine shoots everything, including most skeet loads I have tried except for winchester low recoil / low noise loads... the grey ones I think.

The thing with a 18inch tube and cylinder bore shoots skeet (informal tossing) great in experinced hands though it's certianly easier to use a proper long barrel, choked gun.

Personally if you are going for a 60 yard zero I'd just get the LE gun with gohst ring sights, and save the money you would spend on the sight... at 60 or less the gun shoots quite well with that sight set up and it's relitivly quick on target... at closer ranges with something big as you mention you would have no problem and would likely be referincing off the front bead more than aiming it anyway.

FirstFreedom · April 21, 2007, 11:13 AM

OK, got it home. Gonna first try a Trijicon/Armson OEG on it:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=245487

I want more precision that just a front sight, Vet, since I'm using it solely as a rifle, not a shotgun.

April 17, 2007, 04:10 PM	#1
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	My thanks-for-dumping Zumbo acquisition to Remington Although it is perhaps going to be the correct thing to do, to fully support Jim Zumbo, from now on, for his about-face on the road to Damascus on that issue (seems like he's truly reformed and deserves our support now), I nevertheless wanted to thank Remington for initially dumping him (as was necessary to make him see the light) after his anti-gun comments. So, I put on layaway today a new Remington 1187 "Sportsman's Deer" model shotgun. Fully rifled barrel, cantilevered scope mount, 12 ga 2.75 & 3.0", black plastic stock (it doesn't come in a wood version, unfortunately). Plan to: -Cut barrel to 18" (no, I'm not going to be the 16" test case for my theory - besides, I don't WANT to permanently weld the barrel to the receiver) -Put an Eotech or Bushnell Holosight on it -Write a letter to Rem saying "Thanks for dumping Zumbo, but now kindly please support him again." http://www.remington.com/products/fi...tsman_deer.asp Doesn't the 1100 have some refinements that the 1187 does not? What are they? Thanks. This will be my walking-around, jumping-hogs rifle, and (in theory at least) my ultimate anti-P.O.'ed-grizzly bear rig. What should I zero it at, 50, 60, or 75 yards? I'm thinking 60. And what slugs do you recommend trying for top accuracy? By the way, I had been planning for some time to get a Teppo-Jutsu upper for my AR-10 in .500 Phantom. But the reasons I chose this gun as a substitute for that are: 1. The idea is a short-range hammer of thor - what could be better than a half-inch hammer? (570 gr @ 1,688 fps) Well, a three-quarter inch hammer, of course! (730 gr @ 1,350 fps) 2. The .500 Phantom can do longe range in addition to short range, due to much much better BCs than 12 ga slugs - stuff like .50 BMG bullets - but I wouldn't be using the .500 phantom for that because I have other guns for long range. The one place that the .500 phantom could shine is as a subsonic suppressed project for shooting out to 400 or 500 yards with 1.0+ BC .50 bmg bullets, but this is not a realistic possibility, since the suppressor makers won't sell .50 cal suppressors to non-LEOs, for some reason, even though it would be perfectly legal. I can buy suppressors in .22, .30, .338, 9mm, and .45, but not .50. So, if it can't be suppressed, then it has no advantage over other long-range guns; hence no real use, imagined, real, or otherwise. (the "real" use would be shooting for fun without hearing protection). Last edited by FirstFreedom; April 17, 2007 at 07:07 PM.

April 18, 2007, 04:43 PM	#2
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Does ANYONE have an 1187? Any comments? :-\

April 19, 2007, 10:04 AM	#5
Smitty in CT Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2006 Location: Moodus, CT Posts: 590	Just wanted to add a comment about adding an EOTech, a Bushnell HolSight, or even an ACOG... I bought a Nikon VSD red dot when they 1st came out. You will need to figure out a way to add 1 - 2" of comb height (depending on fit) in order to get a good sight picture with a proper cheek weld. I wound up using one of those neoprene pad riser kits to get a good fit. It doesn't look pretty, but it gets the job done.... Smitty __________________ Smitty "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." -- Gen. George Patton

April 19, 2007, 12:19 AM	#3
Fat White Boy Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2005 Posts: 1,276	The 1187 came after the 1100. My son has an 1187 and the only problem we have encountered is a failure to recycle light loads. The spring is too strong for the weapon to cycle completely with light target and game loads. Now we buy highbase loads for it and it works fine.

April 19, 2007, 09:26 AM	#4
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	If you want an 11-87 with an 18" barrel, I'd suggest you buy one of the LE models that comes with an 18" tube from the factory ( http://www.remingtonle.com/shotguns/1187.htm ). Gas operated shotguns are often very sensitive to gas pressure curves, and cutting down a barrel on a gas gun is not something you can do with the same gleeful abandon you can with a pumpgun. At the least it is not a DIY job, and will require the attention of a gunsmith who knows how to adjust gas port sizes. And once you start monkeying with barrel length and gas port sizes on gas guns, you often get a gun that is finicky as to the ammo it will shoot reliably, or one that batters itself into nonfunctionality over time. It can be a major can of worms, proceed with caution... lpl/nc

April 19, 2007, 03:34 PM	#6
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Good point, Lee. I knew, or should have known that. I'll prolly leave it 21". I want the cantilevered mount rather than the LE model with iron sights. Besides, the LE model does not have a rifled bbl like I want.

April 19, 2007, 08:01 PM	#7
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 2,474	I love the 11-87, I suspect you will as well. Haivng owned other, perhaps more exotic 12 ga autos the 11-87 is the winner in my book for semi-auto 12's I have a 11-87 police set up with the scattergun ring sights... contrary to what many will say or have experinced mine shoots everything, including most skeet loads I have tried except for winchester low recoil / low noise loads... the grey ones I think. The thing with a 18inch tube and cylinder bore shoots skeet (informal tossing) great in experinced hands though it's certianly easier to use a proper long barrel, choked gun. Personally if you are going for a 60 yard zero I'd just get the LE gun with gohst ring sights, and save the money you would spend on the sight... at 60 or less the gun shoots quite well with that sight set up and it's relitivly quick on target... at closer ranges with something big as you mention you would have no problem and would likely be referincing off the front bead more than aiming it anyway.

April 21, 2007, 11:13 AM	#8
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	OK, got it home. Gonna first try a Trijicon/Armson OEG on it: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=245487 I want more precision that just a front sight, Vet, since I'm using it solely as a rifle, not a shotgun.