December 30, 2011, 11:15 PM | #1776 | |
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Yes, we should be angry about this. The problem is, for the majority, the anger ends at the keyboard, or at the dinner table, and it only spurs action among a minority.
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December 30, 2011, 11:45 PM | #1777 |
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Tom's right. The world is run by those who show up.
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December 31, 2011, 11:25 PM | #1778 |
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Lets see what kind of Citizen/Agent body count the DOJ/ATF run up in the new year......
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Molon Labe Last edited by BGutzman; January 1, 2012 at 01:44 PM. |
January 1, 2012, 07:13 PM | #1779 |
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BGutzman wrote:
Lets see what kind of Citizen/Agent body count the DOJ/ATF run up in the new year...... That might prove a most interesting number to kerep track of. |
January 1, 2012, 07:15 PM | #1780 |
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The first FBI agent of the year is dead. He was killed while picking up his father's cancer medication at the pharmacy. While there the pharmacy was robbed and he tried to stop it. Still want to keep track?
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January 1, 2012, 08:31 PM | #1781 | |
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He was a BATFE agent. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/a...G6WmsPbdcQfiiP |
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January 1, 2012, 08:48 PM | #1782 |
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In that case it is a-ok right? We will just ignore the sacrifices made by the agents in this thread to do justice?
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January 1, 2012, 08:57 PM | #1783 |
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MTT TL, I think you are putting words in his mouth, and I'm not sure they fit what he was saying.
Please bear in mind, most of us realize this all came to light due to agents who first tried to stop F&F, and then blew the whistle when they were unable to derail it. Most of us realize that field agents generally do not set policy. I doubt many, if any, of us are gloating over dead FBI, BATFE, or other agents. And I am pretty sure BGutzman was referring to agent casualties caused by F&F guns, specifically. |
January 1, 2012, 09:08 PM | #1784 |
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ok, regardless I think it is crass.
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January 1, 2012, 09:26 PM | #1785 |
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Perhaps, but I think he meant it from the perspective of somebody who thinks the field agents have been sold out by the policy-makers. IE, he isn't celebrating a body count, he's blaming Holder et al for impending agent deaths.
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January 1, 2012, 10:38 PM | #1786 |
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It is political.
My point is that we are no better than they are if the intent is to use dead agents as a political football. We should be better than that.
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Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war. Last edited by MTT TL; January 1, 2012 at 10:44 PM. |
January 1, 2012, 11:20 PM | #1787 |
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MTT TLwrote:
ok, regardless I think it is crass, To which I would say, that there are things that are very much worse than "crass". |
January 1, 2012, 11:33 PM | #1788 |
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True, but as one of my mentors used to say; "if we are going to be dealing with people dying we may as well do it tastefully."
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January 2, 2012, 12:32 AM | #1789 |
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By writing this,I,myself,am guilty of what I am pointing out!
But in the last 20 posts or so,seems to be a lot of banter that isn't really about f+f. BTW,on the "body count",I,too,believe the loss of agents and officers should be treated with respect.. I find it interesting that Holder played the race card. I only hear a little bit mentioned about the fact,Fast and Furious,as an operation,could not help but cause terror,death,and suffering of the Mexican National people . Imagine being a Mexican citizen living in proximity to the f+f AK-47 in the hands of the drug thugs. If,as has been suggested,the intent was to use outrage from Mexico to compromise the 2nd Ammendment,then "collateral damage" from the arms was premeditated. The INTENT of F+F was innocent people being killed in large numbers by the weapons sold from gun dealerships in the USA. The killing and outrage was the intent.It would bring Power for Change from the Anger. While Mr Holder plays the race card,apparently that collateral damage was an acceptable price to pay for the crisis necessary to disarm us via international pressure. Somehow,it only became significant when a US agent was murdered. I agree,lets respect the loss of the agent. I think,if we look,more folks have been getting killed around the border,some from F+F guns,than have been getting killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Some of those are bad guy criminals.Many of them are people who resisted bad guy criminals.Good people.Maybe they just said "No" to drugs. Just like USA Agents,they are people with mothers,fathers,children,spouses,friends,etc. Are those lives any less important than our ATF agent? Ends justify the means?? Tell me about the race card again,Mr Holder. |
January 2, 2012, 03:13 AM | #1790 | ||
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Quote:
From the story: Quote:
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
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January 2, 2012, 03:19 AM | #1791 | |
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Back on topic, this from CNS News 12-29-2011:
SOURCE Quote:
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
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January 2, 2012, 03:55 AM | #1792 |
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Holy s***.
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January 2, 2012, 10:14 AM | #1793 | |
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- A known confessed drug lord - The head of the Department of Justice
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January 2, 2012, 03:20 PM | #1794 |
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As soon as a few FBI or BATFE agents quit over what they have seen they might get a lot more sympathy.
I have refused jobs, and quit jobs over what I decided was management illegal activity. They ended up prosecuted in less than a year, and forced to retire in another case after only a few months. You are known by the company you keep, and choosing to stay means you made a decision. Last edited by brickeyee; January 3, 2012 at 11:27 AM. |
January 2, 2012, 03:26 PM | #1795 | |
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January 2, 2012, 03:26 PM | #1796 | |
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"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights. |
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January 2, 2012, 04:22 PM | #1797 |
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I wish some of the agents would realize that they are cannon fodder for the AG's political goals and do something... preemptive.
BTW, has Eric Holder looked a little depressed lately?
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January 2, 2012, 11:03 PM | #1798 | |
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I don't have any doubt which is the more credible testimony. |
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January 3, 2012, 12:51 AM | #1799 | |
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January 3, 2012, 11:28 AM | #1800 | |
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atf , fast and furious |
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