Safety switch - Page 2

zombietactics · November 25, 2012, 03:08 PM

Holstered weapons with +3lb triggers don't really require the use of manual safeties.

Holstered weapons with -3lb triggers should have manual safeties, and they should be used.

Long guns should always have manual safeties, and they should absolutely be engaged at any time the weapon is not aimed at something you are about to shoot ... or perhaps disengaged when shooting commences, engaged when shooting stops.

PH/CIB · November 25, 2012, 03:16 PM

I carry a Glock for the reason it has no safety to take off or forget and it is the lightest high capacity reliable combat accurate handgun,,,all the others though better in some departments are heavier or have less capacity or have safeties.

A handgun if carried in a holster that covers the trigger guard should be safe to carry with safety off,,,however that being said when I carry a Browning High Power or 1911 it is always cocked and locked with the safety on,,,on a DA/SA pistol I never use the safety if the handgun has one,,,although the arguement that the safety could accidentally be put on leaving me trying to fire a handgun that I thought was off safety is valid so it might be better to practice taking off the safety on the draw whether the handgun has one or not or whether the safety is on or not,,,and if you do this I suppose you might as well be using the safety since you are automatically taking it off whether it is on or not or if the handgun even has one.

I suppose the best practice if you carry and practice with a lot of handguns is to practice on the draw sweeping your thumb down to take off the safety whether the handgun has one or not,,,however that will not work on handguns where the safety has to be swept up. While I own many different types of handguns and rifles and shotguns and am familiar on how to use all of them,,,I only carry one type of handgun on a regular basis.

Rifles and shotguns are a different story,,,while I hate safeties due to some combat experiences,,,and I have many times walked point with no one in front of me but the enemy and the rifle on full auto,,,it is not a good practice for a civilian to get into...You do not carry a rifle or shotgun in a holster or scabbard with the trigger protected and anything can get into the trigger guard and set the firearm off,,,brush, twigs, items you are carrying on yourself or in your vehicle for example.

I only had problems with a safety when everything went into slow motion in a firefight and actually there was no problem with the safety while it seemed like slow motion everything was actually happening at light speed. A safety would probably only get you killed or wounded if you forgot to take it off, and that is probably much more remote a possibility than having an accidental discharge by not using a safety and killing or wounding yourself or someone else,,,so it probably makes more sense to use the safety.

Straightshooter629 · November 25, 2012, 06:20 PM

For what it's worth, I am a firm believer in "Murphy's Law"...need I say more?

warningshot · November 26, 2012, 03:52 AM

Quote:

So, tell me if this is bad practice. But I don't run safetys on any gun.

Okay. I will. That is a bad practice.

Oh please, please talk me into installing breaks on my truck. Was that some you knew in the Crosswalk? I want to argue about if head lamps on my Ford or really neccessary while driving at night. I have great night vision. I'm special.

youngunz4life · November 26, 2012, 04:08 AM

Quote:

A loaded shotgun with the safety off next to the bed? I can't imagine any type of shotgun where that would be a good decision.

as long as the loaded shells are in the tube without having one in the mag. that being said, I like my safety on my shotgun. I use the feature.

Edward429451 · November 28, 2012, 11:04 AM

There is no forgetting the safety on your gun if you train with it to the point that you do not need to "remember" because it will be a reflexive muscle memory and switching it off or on is done without thought, automatically.

It sounds as if you may have too many guns with too many different systems of operation. I suggest safeing all but one and train train train until it becomes ingrained in you. Then go to the next weapon and do the same thing. Be safe and diligent with your safety practices.

Keepin_Jeepin · November 28, 2012, 07:06 PM

This has been a good discussion.

@youngunz4life... shotgun next to my bed with the safey off. Someone should explain to me what the real issue is keeping it loaded with safety off. I live alone, no kids. No one but me to touch it.

Is that information I should have said in the frist place? Who thinks it makes a difference?

hardworker · November 28, 2012, 09:05 PM

It makes a huge difference.

It's a bad idea to leave a loaded shotgun lying around with no safety.

It's an indescribably bad idea to leave a loaded shotgun around when there's kids about.

Keepin_Jeepin · November 29, 2012, 04:39 AM

Well i understand that, but I don't have any kids.

Sparks1957 · November 29, 2012, 05:21 AM

Quote:

It's a bad idea to leave a loaded shotgun lying around with no safety

It seems that you have no concept of how short a trigger it is. It's not like a handgun with a intentionally long, heavy trigger to compensate for the lack of a safety.

Just snag the trigger fumbling around in the dark...

Why take that risk, when you can simply learn to sweep off the safety as you raise the gun to firing position??

45_auto · November 29, 2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

shotgun next to my bed with the safey off. Someone should explain to me what the real issue is keeping it loaded with safety off. I live alone, no kids. No one but me to touch it.

All the explaining in the world isn't going to do any good if you're old enough to legally own a firearm and don't comprehend the issues involved with waking suddenly in the dark and fumbling around reaching for a loaded shotgun with the safety off.

Your mental processes just aren't up to it.

hardworker · November 29, 2012, 04:27 PM

It sounds like you know it's a bad idea, otherwise you wouldn't be asking. Everyone that's replied has confirmed.

Erno86 · November 29, 2012, 05:50 PM

Just remember...every bullet has a lawyer behind it. Some LEO's don't want to be mentally bothered with safety manipulation. I like to know the percentage of LEO's that have negligent discharges. Better yet...just go to a police station ---or especially an indoor gun range --- and see all the holes in the walls, floors and ceilings from negligent discharges. STORING A LOADED SHOTGUN, RIFLE OR PISTOL WITH SAFETY OFF OR HAMMER COCKED WITH SAFETY OFF --- IS JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE. Never trust a safety, and I don't like Glock's in the hands of pistolero novices.

chris in va · November 29, 2012, 10:44 PM

Quote:

If a gun is designed with a manual safety, has a round chambered and is not being fired then put the safety on. Simple.

Well gee whiz, guess I can't put my CZ at half cock notch...better use that safety!

dgludwig · November 30, 2012, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:
shotgun next to my bed with the safey off. Someone should explain to me what the real issue is keeping it loaded with safety off. I live alone, no kids. No one but me to touch it.

All the explaining in the world isn't going to do any good if you're old enough to legally own a firearm and don't comprehend the issues involved with waking suddenly in the dark and fumbling around reaching for a loaded shotgun with the safety off.

I agree with this assessment. As others have opined, get used to where your safety is located on your shotgun and train to use it reflexively. Triggers on most shotguns are entirely too light in terms of pounds to pull and have way too short of a pull index to trust not firing the gun inadvertently with the safety off and a round chambered in what is, by definition in terms of the intended use (self-defense), a high stress situation.

Erno86 · November 30, 2012, 05:00 PM

So jeepster...what if your house or apartment catches fire --- somebody calls the fire department --- and they come to break down your door. Assuming, that you don't have your place booby-trapped...what might happen, is that a firefighter might trip over your loaded gun ---with the safety off ---and having a chance of the gun discharging accidently.

Sgt127 · November 30, 2012, 11:42 PM

You have not specified what kind of guns you are using, or, definded "loaded" enough for me to tell you what you are doing is a little insane and dangerous.

If you mean the pump or auto shotgun is loaded, with a round in the chamber, safety off, its a bad idea. If its a double barrel, but left broken open, its not so bad.

If its a DA Auto, like a Smith 659 and the safety is off, its not so bad, if its a 1911, its not very smart.

Seriously, why buy handguns that require safeties if you don't like them? Glock, Sig DAK, HK LEM, revolvers are all point and click guns that don't require a safety.

I carried a 1911 as a duty gun for many years, shot IPSC. I was very fast with a 1911. The safety on a 1911 is very natural and literally, became part of the trigger stroke. Thumb high on the safety, finger straight. Time to shoot, one move, thumb goes down, finger goes on trigger. Then we were issued Glocks, I stopped carrying 1911's off duty. I don't want to remember two different actions under stress. So I stick with the before mentioned action types for off duty. No decockers, no safeties.

If were issued tradional DA auto's like a P226 with a decocker, I would carry the same thing off duty. The specifics of the action type are trivial in my opinion, I've seen very good shooters with all types of triggers and, I would carry any one of them. But, prefer one type at a time.

To this day (12 years since I carried a 1911) I will still occassionally find my thumb feeling around for the thumb safety on my Glock when I am shooting really fast. Its just about gone now, but, that was REALLY ingrained in me.

SauerGrapes · December 1, 2012, 10:09 PM

IMO, you have too many guns in different stages of readiness. You carry a handgun, make it your HD gun also. If your going to have seperate shotguns, buy 2 of the same.

I have tons of guns and only one is loaded 24/7, that's the one I carry. It takes all the BS out of what's loaded what isn't and what safety is on and which isn't.

To be blunt, I think your an accident waiting to happen. Scale back to one handgun, and learn to shoot it in your sleep. Keep the rest locked up.

jhenry · December 2, 2012, 09:49 AM

I think this is one of those cases of leading horse to water.

The OP knows, or at the very least suspects, his methodology is unsafe. This has been confirmed by the multitudes, and yet, no dice. I can't think of any other way to state the same information that will have an effect, so to the OP, good luck. You have received good sound advice. It is up to you to be a safe and competent gun owner, I hope you become one.

Keepin_Jeepin · December 2, 2012, 09:58 PM

I don't believe I ever said I wouldnt take anyones advice here. I have and will; I succeed to all your points.

jhenry · December 2, 2012, 11:19 PM

In that case I withdraw my comment and wish you well.

bedbugbilly · December 5, 2012, 07:26 PM

the jigger summed up my thoughts on it pretty well . . .

for the OP . . . he already knows what he already does or is going to do . . . so what's really the point in even asking the question?

**44 AMP** · December 7, 2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

A loaded shotgun with the safety off next to the bed? I can't imagine any type of shotgun where that would be a good decision

You need to expand your imagination.

I have exactly that kind of situation, gun loaded, safety off, and I consider it very safe. Of course, the gun I use for this is a coach gun, with exposed hammers. Its quite safe loaded, until you cock the hammer(s)!

Now, a hammerless (internal hammer) double, or a regular pump or semiauto? No, NO, NO! NOT SAFE with chamber loaded and safety off!!!

haymaker · December 9, 2012, 08:37 PM

Is the OP a moron or a troll? If you can't remember where the safety is on a gun you have no business having a gun. Safeties are meant to be used. If you can't remember where it is then use a slingshot.

jason_iowa · December 12, 2012, 03:18 PM

I detest safeties on handguns. I do not buy hand guns that have active safeties on them. On rifles I tend to keep them on safe until i go into a situation where I may have to fire quickly. Same with shotguns. I keep all my defensive weapons loaded. Never trust a mechanical safety. The only one you can count on in the one between your ears.

November 25, 2012, 03:16 PM	#27
PH/CIB Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 281	I carry a Glock for the reason it has no safety to take off or forget and it is the lightest high capacity reliable combat accurate handgun,,,all the others though better in some departments are heavier or have less capacity or have safeties. A handgun if carried in a holster that covers the trigger guard should be safe to carry with safety off,,,however that being said when I carry a Browning High Power or 1911 it is always cocked and locked with the safety on,,,on a DA/SA pistol I never use the safety if the handgun has one,,,although the arguement that the safety could accidentally be put on leaving me trying to fire a handgun that I thought was off safety is valid so it might be better to practice taking off the safety on the draw whether the handgun has one or not or whether the safety is on or not,,,and if you do this I suppose you might as well be using the safety since you are automatically taking it off whether it is on or not or if the handgun even has one. I suppose the best practice if you carry and practice with a lot of handguns is to practice on the draw sweeping your thumb down to take off the safety whether the handgun has one or not,,,however that will not work on handguns where the safety has to be swept up. While I own many different types of handguns and rifles and shotguns and am familiar on how to use all of them,,,I only carry one type of handgun on a regular basis. Rifles and shotguns are a different story,,,while I hate safeties due to some combat experiences,,,and I have many times walked point with no one in front of me but the enemy and the rifle on full auto,,,it is not a good practice for a civilian to get into...You do not carry a rifle or shotgun in a holster or scabbard with the trigger protected and anything can get into the trigger guard and set the firearm off,,,brush, twigs, items you are carrying on yourself or in your vehicle for example. I only had problems with a safety when everything went into slow motion in a firefight and actually there was no problem with the safety while it seemed like slow motion everything was actually happening at light speed. A safety would probably only get you killed or wounded if you forgot to take it off, and that is probably much more remote a possibility than having an accidental discharge by not using a safety and killing or wounding yourself or someone else,,,so it probably makes more sense to use the safety. __________________ Life Member,,,Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, Amvets, Disabled American Veterans, 173rd Airborne Skysoldier Association, National Rifle Association, Member,,,IDPA, USPSA, Iowa Sheriffs and Deputies Association,,Website http://www.handgunholsters.net

November 29, 2012, 05:50 PM	#38
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	Just remember...every bullet has a lawyer behind it. Some LEO's don't want to be mentally bothered with safety manipulation. I like to know the percentage of LEO's that have negligent discharges. Better yet...just go to a police station ---or especially an indoor gun range --- and see all the holes in the walls, floors and ceilings from negligent discharges. STORING A LOADED SHOTGUN, RIFLE OR PISTOL WITH SAFETY OFF OR HAMMER COCKED WITH SAFETY OFF --- IS JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE. Never trust a safety, and I don't like Glock's in the hands of pistolero novices. Last edited by Erno86; November 29, 2012 at 05:56 PM.

December 1, 2012, 10:09 PM	#43
SauerGrapes Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Location: S.E.PA. Posts: 920	IMO, you have too many guns in different stages of readiness. You carry a handgun, make it your HD gun also. If your going to have seperate shotguns, buy 2 of the same. I have tons of guns and only one is loaded 24/7, that's the one I carry. It takes all the BS out of what's loaded what isn't and what safety is on and which isn't. To be blunt, I think your an accident waiting to happen. Scale back to one handgun, and learn to shoot it in your sleep. Keep the rest locked up. __________________ NRA member, DCF&S member, PAFOA member, USPSA member, NSCA member R.I.P.____Murphy

December 2, 2012, 09:49 AM	#44
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	I think this is one of those cases of leading horse to water. The OP knows, or at the very least suspects, his methodology is unsafe. This has been confirmed by the multitudes, and yet, no dice. I can't think of any other way to state the same information that will have an effect, so to the OP, good luck. You have received good sound advice. It is up to you to be a safe and competent gun owner, I hope you become one. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer

December 2, 2012, 11:19 PM	#46
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	In that case I withdraw my comment and wish you well. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer

November 25, 2012, 03:08 PM	#26
zombietactics Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 447	Holstered weapons with +3lb triggers don't really require the use of manual safeties. Holstered weapons with -3lb triggers should have manual safeties, and they should be used. Long guns should always have manual safeties, and they should absolutely be engaged at any time the weapon is not aimed at something you are about to shoot ... or perhaps disengaged when shooting commences, engaged when shooting stops.

November 25, 2012, 06:20 PM	#28
Straightshooter629 Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 475	For what it's worth, I am a firm believer in "Murphy's Law"...need I say more?

November 28, 2012, 11:04 AM	#31
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	There is no forgetting the safety on your gun if you train with it to the point that you do not need to "remember" because it will be a reflexive muscle memory and switching it off or on is done without thought, automatically. It sounds as if you may have too many guns with too many different systems of operation. I suggest safeing all but one and train train train until it becomes ingrained in you. Then go to the next weapon and do the same thing. Be safe and diligent with your safety practices.

November 28, 2012, 07:06 PM	#32
Keepin_Jeepin Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2007 Location: Chelan Posts: 161	This has been a good discussion. @youngunz4life... shotgun next to my bed with the safey off. Someone should explain to me what the real issue is keeping it loaded with safety off. I live alone, no kids. No one but me to touch it. Is that information I should have said in the frist place? Who thinks it makes a difference?

November 28, 2012, 09:05 PM	#33
hardworker Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2010 Posts: 820	It makes a huge difference. It's a bad idea to leave a loaded shotgun lying around with no safety. It's an indescribably bad idea to leave a loaded shotgun around when there's kids about.

November 29, 2012, 04:39 AM	#34
Keepin_Jeepin Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2007 Location: Chelan Posts: 161	Well i understand that, but I don't have any kids.

November 29, 2012, 04:27 PM	#37
hardworker Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2010 Posts: 820	It sounds like you know it's a bad idea, otherwise you wouldn't be asking. Everyone that's replied has confirmed.

November 30, 2012, 05:00 PM	#41
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	So jeepster...what if your house or apartment catches fire --- somebody calls the fire department --- and they come to break down your door. Assuming, that you don't have your place booby-trapped...what might happen, is that a firefighter might trip over your loaded gun ---with the safety off ---and having a chance of the gun discharging accidently.

November 30, 2012, 11:42 PM	#42
Sgt127 Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2002 Posts: 1,053	You have not specified what kind of guns you are using, or, definded "loaded" enough for me to tell you what you are doing is a little insane and dangerous. If you mean the pump or auto shotgun is loaded, with a round in the chamber, safety off, its a bad idea. If its a double barrel, but left broken open, its not so bad. If its a DA Auto, like a Smith 659 and the safety is off, its not so bad, if its a 1911, its not very smart. Seriously, why buy handguns that require safeties if you don't like them? Glock, Sig DAK, HK LEM, revolvers are all point and click guns that don't require a safety. I carried a 1911 as a duty gun for many years, shot IPSC. I was very fast with a 1911. The safety on a 1911 is very natural and literally, became part of the trigger stroke. Thumb high on the safety, finger straight. Time to shoot, one move, thumb goes down, finger goes on trigger. Then we were issued Glocks, I stopped carrying 1911's off duty. I don't want to remember two different actions under stress. So I stick with the before mentioned action types for off duty. No decockers, no safeties. If were issued tradional DA auto's like a P226 with a decocker, I would carry the same thing off duty. The specifics of the action type are trivial in my opinion, I've seen very good shooters with all types of triggers and, I would carry any one of them. But, prefer one type at a time. To this day (12 years since I carried a 1911) I will still occassionally find my thumb feeling around for the thumb safety on my Glock when I am shooting really fast. Its just about gone now, but, that was REALLY ingrained in me.

December 2, 2012, 09:58 PM	#45
Keepin_Jeepin Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2007 Location: Chelan Posts: 161	I don't believe I ever said I wouldnt take anyones advice here. I have and will; I succeed to all your points.

December 5, 2012, 07:26 PM	#47
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	the jigger summed up my thoughts on it pretty well . . . for the OP . . . he already knows what he already does or is going to do . . . so what's really the point in even asking the question? __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

December 9, 2012, 08:37 PM	#49
haymaker Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Location: central Washington State Posts: 108	Is the OP a moron or a troll? If you can't remember where the safety is on a gun you have no business having a gun. Safeties are meant to be used. If you can't remember where it is then use a slingshot.

December 12, 2012, 03:18 PM	#50
jason_iowa Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Posts: 686	I detest safeties on handguns. I do not buy hand guns that have active safeties on them. On rifles I tend to keep them on safe until i go into a situation where I may have to fire quickly. Same with shotguns. I keep all my defensive weapons loaded. Never trust a mechanical safety. The only one you can count on in the one between your ears.