Colt 1958 D.S.Question

[stevnlevine]

A first poster here. I have read these forums regularly for a while, and I respect the expertise.

The Colt in question is a 2nd generation ,c 1958 Detective Special in .38 Spl. Could the bobbed hammer be factory? Or is it aftermarket? Can anyone tell by looking? Various www sites mention a "bobbed" version, but none shows a picture. Thanks in advance.


The gun was carried by my late father as his off duty weapon. He was a P.O. in a small upstate N.Y. city. So it either was ordered this way from Colt. Or bobbed by someone other than Colt. He told me that all 70 officers on the dept were issued these bobbed guns for off duty carry. They trained double action, strong hand only with these guns.

The guns are still capable of being single action cocked. Although there isn't much to grab on to for either cocking or decocking.


The Colt "Official Police" in .38 Spl was the issue duty gun. Most men carried the 6" model. Detectives, motor cycle units and others carried 4" guns.

It is currently on my carry permit, and will still shoot 6 wadcutters into a tiny circle at 25 yards. I still have a box of his duty ammo. Peters .38 lead round nose "police" load c 1940.

[James K]

It could have been a special order, and a Colt letter would show that, but it looks more like it was done by a local gunsmith or the police armorer.

As you know, shooting DA can be just as effective as SA fire, and a lot faster; I tend to agree with the philosophy of whomever issued those guns that way.

Jim

[Chesster]

Welcome Stevn. It is hard to say, but it looks like the bob jobs I have done on some old Colt Ds and Smith Js with a Dremel, file and/or emory cloth.

[PetahW]

I agree, in thinking the bobjob isn't factory - mostly because the factory option at the time was to either install their hammer shroud, or to sell the shroud as a part for an aftermarket install.

After doing one myself many years ago, I can tell you that I was sorry I had done so.
The problem arose the first time I had a "social" incident while carrying the bobbed revolver, and started the hammer back DA, bringing it to full cock with the thumb, to emphasize my point about de-escalation of the incident.

When the incident "disappeared" itself, with the cocking of the gun, I was left with a loaded/cocked revolver in an urban/congested area - that was very hairy to uncock safely w/o a AD.
[edit: And, NO, I didn't checker the top of the bobbed hammer. My bad. (Doh) Hindsight is 20/20]

Shortly after that, I bought & swapped back in an issue hammer.

.

[doc540]

Is the trigger guard cut, too?

Please post more pics of the entire gun.

If a Colt hammer is bobbed and checkered effectively, it is safe to operate single action.

I carry two (one at a time) and have no problems whatsoever with single action operation.

[tdrizzle]

I have an Agent I'm thinking about having bobbed. Got a rough idea what it would cost for a smith to do it? Would you have to disassemble, or just use a dremel and polish it up? I couldn't do any checkering to the top of the hammer myself, which would seem important so it doesn't slip when you're trying to lower the hammer.

[stevnlevine]

Most Colt DA revolvers will allow the cylinder to open when the hammer is cocked. This has always seemed safer to me than lowering the hammer gingerly onto a live round by pulling the trigger. Especially in a piece like this one with it's tiny hammer.


Regarding my Father's DS: I think a photo of a Colt factory hammer "bob-job", c 1958, will provide my answer. There has to be some body out there that at least knows what a factory hammer bob looks like? As I said earlier. Old Colt (c1950's) sales lit mentions their availability.


As for having a modern piece bobbed. I wouldn't be surprised if the gun needs some adjusting after this is done. I'm guessing less hammer mass, needs more spring to hit as hard?

[Dfariswheel]

Would you have to disassemble, or just use a dremel and polish it up?

Best to disassemble.
If you do it while in the gun, you get metal particles and grit into the action.
Also, one slip and you can easily damage the gun's finish.
You can tape the dickens out of the gun and around the hammer to prevent things from getting in the action and to protect the guns itself.

Most decent gunsmiths can do it for you. Price depends on the 'smith.

Most Colt DA revolvers will allow the cylinder to open when the hammer is cocked

If you can open a Colt cylinder while the hammer is cocked, you have a defective gun.
The hammer blocking safety prevents the cylinder latch from moving back to allow opening the cylinder.
If some fool has removed the safety block, that will allow the cylinder to open while cocked.

[dgludwig]

The problem arose the first time I had a "social" incident while carrying the bobbed revolver, and started the hammer back DA, bringing it to full cock with the thumb, to emphasize my point about de-escalation of the incident.

IMO, not the smartest way to "defuse" any sort of social incident. Nothing good can come from cocking a revolver and putting it in a single-action mode when involved in a situation that mandated you putting your weapon into play-unless you are involved in a rare, long range self-defense scenario. Cocking a hammer is no way to "emphasize" your message. A cocked revolver with its attendant light, single-action trigger pull poses way too many unintended consequences .

[PetahW]

[Most Colt DA revolvers will allow the cylinder to open when the hammer is cocked]

[If you can open a Colt cylinder while the hammer is cocked, you have a defective gun.]

+1 - Amen.




[IMO, not the smartest way to "defuse" any sort of social incident.]


While you're certainly entitled to your opinion, dgludwig - they tend to be like butts (everyone's got one).

It's hard to argue with success - and with an incident ending w/o my having to shoot someone, which I was fully prepared to do (i.e., shoot), and in fact preparing to do immediately (i.e., shoot), at the time.

I simply thought it smartest, under duress, to give the other party their last chance.
They took that chance.

I'm sure both of us were glad they decided that way.

YMMV.

BT/DT/NTS.

.

[DougP]

One, upmanship is never a good way to defuse a problem.
WOW
This is one of the fastest way to get something started.
You were lucky this time, the next time you might want to change your thinking. I hope, for your sake. A pistol is there to save you, not to tell someone you have a gun, or to scare them or to be the big guy.
Who ever doesn't believe this should not be carring a pistol.
Just like at home - keep it in your pants or your going to get into trouble.
Depending on where you are at , this could be the fastest way to jail you can think of, or worse.

[PetahW]

[One, upmanship is never a good way to defuse a problem.
WOW This is one of the fastest way to get something started. ]

OK, one last time -then, I'm done on this subject.

Don't judge anything, unless YOU were there.

NO "one-upmanship" was involved; and "something" had already been started - by the OTHER party.

I cocked the revolver because it's use was emminent - I was being approached for an attack, despite yelling for them to stop or I would shoot them.

I decided - charitably, since I felt I had just enough time/distance - to cock SA as a last warning instead of killing someone.
It's a legal thing - about which party is doing the escalation.

The cocking action stopped the attack; no one got injured or worse - and I get a ration from someone who's never walked in my shoes.

stevnlevine - I'm sorry your thread got hijacked by others.

.

[dgludwig]

Firstly, PetahW, if anyone "hijacked" this thread it was you when you advocated cocking a da revolver to quell a "social incident". You should know that many police forces around the country went to dao pistols to preclude the very unintended consequence your actions invited-somebody other than the intended target getting shot because the "good guy's" finger rested on a "hair" trigger when an extra dose of adrenalin was coursing through their veins.

Many uninformed people seem to believe that the sound of a pump shotgun being racked or the sight of a red dot being danced on a bg's chest or some other such "psychological" endeavor is a substitute for effective self-defense measures. Don't kid yourself. Any time you have good cause to draw a weapon to defend yourself, by definition you have every reason to shoot the offending party. Cocking the hammer of a da revolver to show somebody you "mean business" is nothing more than an act of showmanship that has no bearing whatsoever in a confrontation with an armed bg who has already conveyed his or her intent to take your life or that of an innocent other's-the only reason you have to have drawn your weapon in the first place. And I don't have to have "walked in your shoes" to decide otherwise.

[DougP]

Doc 540 -- boy that's a nice looking revolver. But they are like other things - I haven't met one I didn't like yet.

With several other posts, Safety is always a concern - for yourself and the ones around you. If anyone would catch up with real world ideas they would know if a pistol is drawn, someone most likely goes to jail. Be it the good guy or be the bad guy- someone goes to jail. Hopfully walking and not being carried. As for being in someones shoes, I like my own shoes thank you . I do carry most of the time so I do know the reasons for pulling a pistol out. And its not to show someone I've got one. The next time we meet "he" just might be waiting to show me his bigger gun. Not a good move for anyone.

Remember to have a nice day out there

[PetahW]

FYI:

ad·vo·ca·cy n. :

The act of pleading or arguing in favor of something, such as a cause, idea, or policy; active support.




recount v. :

Narrate or give a detailed account of - i.e., narrate, tell, recite, as in : "Tell what happened".

Inform, as in : impart knowledge of some fact, state or affairs, or event to.

.

[RsqVet]

Petah ---

Glad your incident worked out in your favor without shots fired. Yes it is hard to argue when something worked for you.

At the same time what you report is counter to current good use of lethal force doctrine. No need for argument on this subject, it is true for the reasons outlined by many posters. If you want even more info search tactics and training or any number of refferance materials on armed defense.

So, since this is a public forum it should come as no great surprise that when you report something like this, others will counter your post; presumably since this is a public forum and they do not wish for the un-informed to think that what you report is a great idea. Same idea as if some one reported a self defense situation with a BB gun --- glad it worked, not going to advise folks to carry BB guns.

[SaberOne]

I agree with “dgludwig” on the social de-escalation thing’. Back when I was a LEO in the 70’s my partner use to do this and it always scared the crap out of me! We caught these two guys that had broken in to a business and we had them up against the wall. My partner placed his .44 SP revolver to the base of one of the guy’s neck as he cocked the hammer. One false move and that would have been it, and I’d still be cleaning brain matter off my clothes to this day. I really think it’s a bit risky as it can actually over commit yourself to something you may not want to do.

Ok, back on point: I would never want to bob a hammer on the fly as mentioned here. Its well worth the money to have it done right, clean and professional. If it were a Colt in good condition, I would really want it done by no less than a master, if at all.
Regards,