CCW permit and Rehabs (Mississippi)

TennJed · February 24, 2011, 12:20 AM

I have been involved with firearms for a long time, but I do not have my CCW permit. I live in Mississippi and want to get it soon.

I have admitted myself in the past to a treatment facility for alcohol abuse (please do not judge, I am now sober, am involved in a church for the first time in my life and attend AA meetings very regular.)

At looking at the application in the section after you have your notary signature it states to the effect of no person who habitually uses alcohol or drugs can posses a permit and that if you have voluntary or involuntary been admitted to a treatment facility (within the last 3 years) you are assumed to habitually use.

If I am understanding this correct I cannot get my CCW until I have been out of rehab for 3 years. Is there anyway around this? I could obviously lie on the application, but I will not do that...part of AA is becoming a better person (and if, God forbid, I ever had to use my firearm it could come back to haunt me)

Does anyone have any knowledge or experience that could help me?

Thanks

mikejonestkd · February 24, 2011, 12:27 AM

As you mentioned, it looks like three years is the regulation.

http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/45/009/0101.htm

Quote:

(e) Does not chronically or habitually abuse controlled substances to the extent that his normal faculties are impaired. It shall be presumed that an applicant chronically and habitually uses controlled substances to the extent that his faculties are impaired if the applicant has been voluntarily or involuntarily committed to a treatment facility for the abuse of a controlled substance or been found guilty of a crime under the provisions of the Uniform Controlled Substances Law or similar laws of any other state or the United States relating to controlled substances within a three-year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted;

(f) Does not chronically and habitually use alcoholic beverages to the extent that his normal faculties are impaired. It shall be presumed that an applicant chronically and habitually uses alcoholic beverages to the extent that his normal faculties are impaired if the applicant has been voluntarily or involuntarily committed as an alcoholic to a treatment facility or has been convicted of two (2) or more offenses related to the use of alcohol under the laws of this state or similar laws of any other state or the United States within the three-year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted;

Don't lie to try to get it any earlier, it'll only come back to bite you on the behind in the future.

TennJed · February 24, 2011, 12:45 AM

I figured that, and have no intention of lying. I guess I was just hoping.

sakeneko · February 24, 2011, 01:03 AM

Hope springs eternal.

BTW, if you simply hold your head up, admit that you had (past tense) a drug/alcohol problem for which you got treatment, and don't apologize, most people are going to take that at face value. I had two alcoholic parents. One died of a combination of that and complications from diabetes. The other has been sober for coming on thirty years. IMHO drug or alcohol addiction is a fact, not a moral failing. The moral failing, or triumph, is what you do with it. Sounds like you're doing the right thing about it. Keep on doing that, and maybe someday you'll have a kid who looks up to you as much as I do my mom. :-)

danber9546 · February 24, 2011, 01:33 AM

I wish good luck to you in trying to stay sober and in getting your CCW permit.

8shot357 · February 24, 2011, 05:56 AM

Quote:

I have admitted myself in the past to a treatment facility for alcohol abuse

If they look you up, will they be able to find that fact, or is it confidential?

You ca only try with a NA/no.

Just say no!

Powderman · February 24, 2011, 06:14 AM

To the OP: I commend you on your integrity. You'll do to ride the river with, as the saying goes. Hold your head high and do not be ashamed--at all!

Ben Towe · February 24, 2011, 08:29 AM

I, too, commend you for your integrity. It is a shame that they choose to punish those who try to help themselves however. I don't think voluntary enrollment for alcohol treatment should be a deciding factor. No one made you do it, you made the choice. Good luck with it all, sir.

EDIT: You might call whoever is in charge issuing permit to make certain you cannot qualify. It can't hurt.

jhenry · February 24, 2011, 09:53 AM

You are doing the right thing. It does not hurt to ask the powers that be if there is any exemption allowed, there probably isn't. In that case just wait the three years total and move on. Best of luck with you recovery, I sincerely hope you have the best of success.

Al Norris · February 24, 2011, 09:54 AM

It is a sad fact of life that many who go through rehab (voluntary or otherwise) simply cannot shed the addiction. The first five years, of sobriety, can be the hardest thing you ever do, as it is and was for many trying to get their lives back together.

It's not often I agree with gun control laws. This is one I understand.

8shot357, what you suggested is not only illegal (and I usually ban on sight, anyone who proposes such action), it goes against everything that TennJed is trying to change. Alcoholics/Drug Addicts are not truthful. Not to you, me and most especially, themselves.

Your suggestion does nothing but enable past behaviors that are destructive to the person your suggestion is aimed at. Consider this warning. It will be the only one you get.

TennJed, Hang in there. Use this time well and get yourself together. I can't guarantee things will get better, they will get different.

Welcome to the Firing Line.

youngunz4life · February 24, 2011, 10:09 AM

yes, Sir. You will be ready after 3 yrs too. I knew someone who wouldn't join the military for fear of relapse. It wasn't even an option let alone a fear. Well, after some yrs sober, he volunteered for the war and thought nothing of it. He was ready. The last thing you need is a relapse or some kind if issue where you do have a gun. "Well, I won't carry." You and I both know the alcoholic who says he won't drive inevitably does anyways after drinking(many times but not everyone).

speeding @ sixteen after a 12pack without a fear in the world and by the time was 25 paranoid about 1-2beers and driving a mile
(sorry I never forgot my buddy's story).

hang in there. You are doing the right thing, and your honesty and admittance will go along way towards your recovery. I believe admittance is the first step.

SwampYankee · February 24, 2011, 10:49 AM

If I were in your shoes, I would simply wait the 3 years. If you apply within the 3 years and answer truthfully, you may be denied. Ok, so now you wait the 3 years and reapply. BUT they will likely keep your previous paperwork on file. I'm not sure if Mississippi is a shall or may state but they less they know about your background the better. Even if you are following the letter of the law and are past your 3 year limit, they may still use it as a reason to deny if they know about it. You don't want to lie because it will come back to bite you, but you don't want the licensing agency to have anymore information about you than they need.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 24, 2011, 01:02 PM

TennJed -

I also commend you for deciding to be honest. That is an important step.

Now, with that said, I also think it's important to view laws on the basis of what they actually say. For example, the Federal 4473 that you fill out to buy a firearm asks if you have been "involuntarily" committed to a treatment facility. Clearly, then, you can honestly answer "No" to that one.

The law that's causing you problems, however, says "voluntarily or involuntarily committed." I think we can agree on what "voluntary" means, but in your post you used the word "admitted" rather than "committed." I'm going to suggest that you may be able to legally and honestly answer "No" to the question. But (as usual with legal questions), it depends.

Is the word "committed" defined in the statute? If not, is it defined in any related statutes? Unless and until you know what "committed" means in the context of the law, you do not actually know what the law says.

I'm threading a needle with a camel here, but that's the way the law works. I'm in a different state, and I am not a lawyer. I did have a friend who was periodically in and out of mental health facilities for issues relating to depression and suicide. I also knew a gentleman who was the director of one such facility for a large, teaching hospital. What I am driving at is that there may be a distinct difference in meaning/definition between "admitted" and "committed."

I'm pretty sure that, in my state, someone who is voluntarily "admitted" to a treatment facility can walk out at any time. Just say, "I quit." However, someone who is voluntarily "committed" signs away the right to say, "I quit." Someone who voluntarily "commits" him/herself agrees that they won't be released until the medical staff decide they are ready.

To be clear: I am NOT suggesting that you adopt this view. I am suggesting that you discuss it with a lawyer and ask if this law makes any distinction between "admitted" and "committed." If so, then you'll have to figure out if, in your voluntary admission, you could have walked out ... or not.

Good luck.

AlabamaFamilyMan · February 24, 2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Is the word "committed" defined in the statute? If not, is it defined in any related statutes? Unless and until you know what "committed" means in the context of the law, you do not actually know what the law says.

Also, be sure to check for case law on the subject.

AFM

JIMSPD9 · February 24, 2011, 03:21 PM

If CCW is really important to you wait until you can apply legally.
Filing a false statement opens up a whole can of worms and may deny you the chance to obtain at all. A CCW conviction may also deny or hold back future approval for months or longer.

As a retired Mississippi LEO, I can tell you that carrying a weapon in your vehicle is LEGAL without a permit. Just leave it in the car. That should suffice until such time, that you can file outside your hospitalization restriction.

There is a meeting of the Mississippi Firearms Owners Assoc (MFOA) at the Bass Pro Shop in Pearl, Ms.(JACKSON AREA) This Sat, Feb 26, at 1400. Why not attend, and see whats happening in the gun owner community in Mississippi.

Jim S.

TennJed · February 24, 2011, 06:51 PM

Thanks for all the great info guys, this is while I love this place and feel comfortable discussing such matters.

I have defiantly made my mind up to wait it out. Fortunately it is closer to 2 years than 3.

I am also lucky enough to have relatives with quite a bit of land close by. One actually has a private "gun range" set up a short 4-wheeler ride from his home. this is where I currently keep all the family firearms anyway (I do not have any at home much less loaded).

I have the chance to go there a few times a month to shoot as I want (in a safe controlled environment b/c he knows my situation, he is retired and always there and would never let my shoot if he felt something was "up")......anyway I am going to use this time to practice my technique and shooting so when I can legally acquire the CCW I will not only have a "clear mind" but a better skill set.

Thanks for all the good info!!!!

February 24, 2011, 12:20 AM	#1
TennJed Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2010 Posts: 1,536	CCW permit and Rehabs (Mississippi) I have been involved with firearms for a long time, but I do not have my CCW permit. I live in Mississippi and want to get it soon. I have admitted myself in the past to a treatment facility for alcohol abuse (please do not judge, I am now sober, am involved in a church for the first time in my life and attend AA meetings very regular.) At looking at the application in the section after you have your notary signature it states to the effect of no person who habitually uses alcohol or drugs can posses a permit and that if you have voluntary or involuntary been admitted to a treatment facility (within the last 3 years) you are assumed to habitually use. If I am understanding this correct I cannot get my CCW until I have been out of rehab for 3 years. Is there anyway around this? I could obviously lie on the application, but I will not do that...part of AA is becoming a better person (and if, God forbid, I ever had to use my firearm it could come back to haunt me) Does anyone have any knowledge or experience that could help me? Thanks

February 24, 2011, 06:14 AM	#7
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	To the OP: I commend you on your integrity. You'll do to ride the river with, as the saying goes. Hold your head high and do not be ashamed--at all! __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

February 24, 2011, 08:29 AM	#8
Ben Towe Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 1,128	I, too, commend you for your integrity. It is a shame that they choose to punish those who try to help themselves however. I don't think voluntary enrollment for alcohol treatment should be a deciding factor. No one made you do it, you made the choice. Good luck with it all, sir. EDIT: You might call whoever is in charge issuing permit to make certain you cannot qualify. It can't hurt. __________________ 'Merica: Back to back World War Champs

February 24, 2011, 09:53 AM	#9
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	You are doing the right thing. It does not hurt to ask the powers that be if there is any exemption allowed, there probably isn't. In that case just wait the three years total and move on. Best of luck with you recovery, I sincerely hope you have the best of success. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer

February 24, 2011, 10:09 AM	#11
youngunz4life Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2010 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,877	yes, Sir. You will be ready after 3 yrs too. I knew someone who wouldn't join the military for fear of relapse. It wasn't even an option let alone a fear. Well, after some yrs sober, he volunteered for the war and thought nothing of it. He was ready. The last thing you need is a relapse or some kind if issue where you do have a gun. "Well, I won't carry." You and I both know the alcoholic who says he won't drive inevitably does anyways after drinking(many times but not everyone). speeding @ sixteen after a 12pack without a fear in the world and by the time was 25 paranoid about 1-2beers and driving a mile (sorry I never forgot my buddy's story). hang in there. You are doing the right thing, and your honesty and admittance will go along way towards your recovery. I believe admittance is the first step. __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864

February 24, 2011, 12:45 AM	#3
TennJed Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2010 Posts: 1,536	I figured that, and have no intention of lying. I guess I was just hoping.

February 24, 2011, 01:03 AM	#4
sakeneko Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 644	Hope springs eternal. BTW, if you simply hold your head up, admit that you had (past tense) a drug/alcohol problem for which you got treatment, and don't apologize, most people are going to take that at face value. I had two alcoholic parents. One died of a combination of that and complications from diabetes. The other has been sober for coming on thirty years. IMHO drug or alcohol addiction is a fact, not a moral failing. The moral failing, or triumph, is what you do with it. Sounds like you're doing the right thing about it. Keep on doing that, and maybe someday you'll have a kid who looks up to you as much as I do my mom. :-)

February 24, 2011, 01:33 AM	#5
danber9546 Member Join Date: November 22, 2009 Location: Eubank, KY Posts: 74	I wish good luck to you in trying to stay sober and in getting your CCW permit.

February 24, 2011, 09:54 AM	#10
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	It is a sad fact of life that many who go through rehab (voluntary or otherwise) simply cannot shed the addiction. The first five years, of sobriety, can be the hardest thing you ever do, as it is and was for many trying to get their lives back together. It's not often I agree with gun control laws. This is one I understand. 8shot357, what you suggested is not only illegal (and I usually ban on sight, anyone who proposes such action), it goes against everything that TennJed is trying to change. Alcoholics/Drug Addicts are not truthful. Not to you, me and most especially, themselves. Your suggestion does nothing but enable past behaviors that are destructive to the person your suggestion is aimed at. Consider this warning. It will be the only one you get. TennJed, Hang in there. Use this time well and get yourself together. I can't guarantee things will get better, they will get different. Welcome to the Firing Line.

February 24, 2011, 10:49 AM	#12
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	If I were in your shoes, I would simply wait the 3 years. If you apply within the 3 years and answer truthfully, you may be denied. Ok, so now you wait the 3 years and reapply. BUT they will likely keep your previous paperwork on file. I'm not sure if Mississippi is a shall or may state but they less they know about your background the better. Even if you are following the letter of the law and are past your 3 year limit, they may still use it as a reason to deny if they know about it. You don't want to lie because it will come back to bite you, but you don't want the licensing agency to have anymore information about you than they need.

February 24, 2011, 01:02 PM	#13
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,458	TennJed - I also commend you for deciding to be honest. That is an important step. Now, with that said, I also think it's important to view laws on the basis of what they actually say. For example, the Federal 4473 that you fill out to buy a firearm asks if you have been "involuntarily" committed to a treatment facility. Clearly, then, you can honestly answer "No" to that one. The law that's causing you problems, however, says "voluntarily or involuntarily committed." I think we can agree on what "voluntary" means, but in your post you used the word "admitted" rather than "committed." I'm going to suggest that you may be able to legally and honestly answer "No" to the question. But (as usual with legal questions), it depends. Is the word "committed" defined in the statute? If not, is it defined in any related statutes? Unless and until you know what "committed" means in the context of the law, you do not actually know what the law says. I'm threading a needle with a camel here, but that's the way the law works. I'm in a different state, and I am not a lawyer. I did have a friend who was periodically in and out of mental health facilities for issues relating to depression and suicide. I also knew a gentleman who was the director of one such facility for a large, teaching hospital. What I am driving at is that there may be a distinct difference in meaning/definition between "admitted" and "committed." I'm pretty sure that, in my state, someone who is voluntarily "admitted" to a treatment facility can walk out at any time. Just say, "I quit." However, someone who is voluntarily "committed" signs away the right to say, "I quit." Someone who voluntarily "commits" him/herself agrees that they won't be released until the medical staff decide they are ready. To be clear: I am NOT suggesting that you adopt this view. I am suggesting that you discuss it with a lawyer and ask if this law makes any distinction between "admitted" and "committed." If so, then you'll have to figure out if, in your voluntary admission, you could have walked out ... or not. Good luck.

February 24, 2011, 03:21 PM	#15
JIMSPD9 Member Join Date: August 6, 2010 Posts: 86	WAIT !!! If CCW is really important to you wait until you can apply legally. Filing a false statement opens up a whole can of worms and may deny you the chance to obtain at all. A CCW conviction may also deny or hold back future approval for months or longer. As a retired Mississippi LEO, I can tell you that carrying a weapon in your vehicle is LEGAL without a permit. Just leave it in the car. That should suffice until such time, that you can file outside your hospitalization restriction. There is a meeting of the Mississippi Firearms Owners Assoc (MFOA) at the Bass Pro Shop in Pearl, Ms.(JACKSON AREA) This Sat, Feb 26, at 1400. Why not attend, and see whats happening in the gun owner community in Mississippi. Jim S. Last edited by JIMSPD9; February 24, 2011 at 03:28 PM.

February 24, 2011, 06:51 PM	#16
TennJed Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2010 Posts: 1,536	Thanks for all the great info guys, this is while I love this place and feel comfortable discussing such matters. I have defiantly made my mind up to wait it out. Fortunately it is closer to 2 years than 3. I am also lucky enough to have relatives with quite a bit of land close by. One actually has a private "gun range" set up a short 4-wheeler ride from his home. this is where I currently keep all the family firearms anyway (I do not have any at home much less loaded). I have the chance to go there a few times a month to shoot as I want (in a safe controlled environment b/c he knows my situation, he is retired and always there and would never let my shoot if he felt something was "up")......anyway I am going to use this time to practice my technique and shooting so when I can legally acquire the CCW I will not only have a "clear mind" but a better skill set. Thanks for all the good info!!!!