Assessing A Situation

Groundhog · May 16, 2007, 11:08 AM

This video has inspired much debate here in recent days. There seems to be a common thread of 'Think About It', vs. 'Charge Right In There' going on. For those of you who are trained in it, or who have done it:

How long does it take to assess a situation like that and determine your course of action?

My suspicion is that it's done in seconds.

Big Calhoun · May 16, 2007, 12:16 PM

I have no formal training. I've been lucky

enough to live in a variety of situations, good and bad, and have been able to develop good common and street sense. That being said, I'm also a family guy. I work a 9 to 5 professional job and just want to go home to my wife and kid at the end of the day. I'm your 'average Tyrone', err, Joe.

IMHO, good situational awareness can be done in seconds...how many 'potentials'? Anything bulging? Posturing...body language? Verbal communication? If you understand what you're looking for and stay observant, a situation or scene can be 'deciphered' in seconds.

I am more of the 'wait and see' variety when different scenarios occur. Because enviorments are so fluid, I'd rather be comfortable and know what I'm observing is accurate and representative of the situation in progress rather than going on a hunch.

All in all, I believe it is better to act than to have a reaction.

markj · May 16, 2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

My suspicion is that it's done in seconds.

Split seconds. Mostly reaction time. Depends on training and things like that. Working in a rough bar as a bouncer you kinda get that.

Archie · May 16, 2007, 01:44 PM

Most situations are not as complicated as one might think.

One of my biggest complaints about 'training scenarios' is the trainers try to be too damn clever. The big ugly aggressor is really an undercover DEA agent working a big drug ring, but unknown to the DEA he's been bought by the drug kingpin and unbeknownst to the cartel, he's really clean and working on a book and movie deal... and so on. Not hardly.

Yes, one needs to look at what is going on. I don't like 7-11 on principle - they're anti-gun - so I don't often frequent those places. However, when I pull up to a convenience store, I do look to see who's waiting in the cars out front. I take a quick look to see if there are customers inside and if there's a cashier visible. Nothing stealthy, no protracted recon, just a quick look.

The same thing applies to other normal situations. If waiting in a parking lot, I lock the doors. (I also turn the engine off to avoid exciting others and killing myself with carbon monoxide.)

Mostly, think ahead. Where are the places from where one could attack? Where are the exits? Who is acting oddly?

Groundhog · May 16, 2007, 02:11 PM

All good ideas. I'm kind of getting at assessments in a situation already gone bad. For instance, in the video, prevention would have been seeing a bunch of people milling around in the parking lot, think about going to another store. I'm looking more at what happens when the "situation" has already gone south. How long will it take for a person to assess it and determine a course of action (i.e. get involved, don't get involved, etc.)

Big Calhoun · May 16, 2007, 03:13 PM

I would again say seconds.

I had a recent situation where I essentially arrived in the middle of an ongoing situation. What my eyes saw were two young men in gang type clothing (solid colored Dickies) moving, acting aggressively towards another individual who was seemingly trying to retreat from or avoid the situation. What my ears heard were raised and forceful voices from the two Dickies wearing gents and a low and muffled tone from the lone individual. Putting those obvious clues together, in seconds, I can make a basic assesment of a 2 on 1 altercation, possibly gang related.

I think it also comes down to mindset. Not everyone has lived through the same set of circumstances. A police officer is trained to recognize certain signals and clues. A person like me has had to live through seeing those signs and clues repeatedly and not recognizing through memorization, but learning them through the instict of survival. Others can go through varying degrees of training. Someone who has no need or purpose to recognize subtle details in a situation may not be inclined to do so.

The encounter I had lasted a minute and a half tops. I would comfortably say that within 10-15 seconds I was able to: asses the situation, establish a line of sight so I wouldn't get flanked, decide under what conditions I would present my weapon, decide who would be shot first, and decide I was just going to observe unless a specific set of conditions came into play (eg. 2 on 1 fight, someone else had a weapon, etc.). The rest of the time, I basically observed.

Lurper · May 17, 2007, 02:41 PM

It doesn't take that long. Anyone who advocates rushing in without first calling 911 is a fool. While on the phone, you can assess the situation initially, that would just consist of taking in the entire scene. After giving your location, you can set the phone down (without hanging up) and begin to act. But you need to assess cover, positioning, etc. The Billy Bad A$$ who rushes into a crowd of 8 or 9 without knowing who is who or who is armed probably will not walk out. An assessment of this particular situation would only take a couple of seconds. Check the position of the BG, the bystanders, possible cover, then act.

May 16, 2007, 11:08 AM	#1
Groundhog Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 406	Assessing A Situation This video has inspired much debate here in recent days. There seems to be a common thread of 'Think About It', vs. 'Charge Right In There' going on. For those of you who are trained in it, or who have done it: How long does it take to assess a situation like that and determine your course of action? My suspicion is that it's done in seconds. __________________ Greg Miller "Remember, a valid point never overrules a family tradition." - Me

May 16, 2007, 12:16 PM	#2
Big Calhoun Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Posts: 213	I have no formal training. I've been lucky enough to live in a variety of situations, good and bad, and have been able to develop good common and street sense. That being said, I'm also a family guy. I work a 9 to 5 professional job and just want to go home to my wife and kid at the end of the day. I'm your 'average Tyrone', err, Joe. IMHO, good situational awareness can be done in seconds...how many 'potentials'? Anything bulging? Posturing...body language? Verbal communication? If you understand what you're looking for and stay observant, a situation or scene can be 'deciphered' in seconds. I am more of the 'wait and see' variety when different scenarios occur. Because enviorments are so fluid, I'd rather be comfortable and know what I'm observing is accurate and representative of the situation in progress rather than going on a hunch. All in all, I believe it is better to act than to have a reaction. __________________ Beretta 96FS :: HK USP Tatical :: Springfield XD45 :: Kimber Compact Stainless II :: HK P2000 SK

May 16, 2007, 01:44 PM	#4
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	In real life... Most situations are not as complicated as one might think. One of my biggest complaints about 'training scenarios' is the trainers try to be too damn clever. The big ugly aggressor is really an undercover DEA agent working a big drug ring, but unknown to the DEA he's been bought by the drug kingpin and unbeknownst to the cartel, he's really clean and working on a book and movie deal... and so on. Not hardly. Yes, one needs to look at what is going on. I don't like 7-11 on principle - they're anti-gun - so I don't often frequent those places. However, when I pull up to a convenience store, I do look to see who's waiting in the cars out front. I take a quick look to see if there are customers inside and if there's a cashier visible. Nothing stealthy, no protracted recon, just a quick look. The same thing applies to other normal situations. If waiting in a parking lot, I lock the doors. (I also turn the engine off to avoid exciting others and killing myself with carbon monoxide.) Mostly, think ahead. Where are the places from where one could attack? Where are the exits? Who is acting oddly? __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

May 16, 2007, 02:11 PM	#5
Groundhog Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 406	All good ideas. I'm kind of getting at assessments in a situation already gone bad. For instance, in the video, prevention would have been seeing a bunch of people milling around in the parking lot, think about going to another store. I'm looking more at what happens when the "situation" has already gone south. How long will it take for a person to assess it and determine a course of action (i.e. get involved, don't get involved, etc.) __________________ Greg Miller "Remember, a valid point never overrules a family tradition." - Me

May 16, 2007, 03:13 PM	#6
Big Calhoun Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Posts: 213	I would again say seconds. I had a recent situation where I essentially arrived in the middle of an ongoing situation. What my eyes saw were two young men in gang type clothing (solid colored Dickies) moving, acting aggressively towards another individual who was seemingly trying to retreat from or avoid the situation. What my ears heard were raised and forceful voices from the two Dickies wearing gents and a low and muffled tone from the lone individual. Putting those obvious clues together, in seconds, I can make a basic assesment of a 2 on 1 altercation, possibly gang related. I think it also comes down to mindset. Not everyone has lived through the same set of circumstances. A police officer is trained to recognize certain signals and clues. A person like me has had to live through seeing those signs and clues repeatedly and not recognizing through memorization, but learning them through the instict of survival. Others can go through varying degrees of training. Someone who has no need or purpose to recognize subtle details in a situation may not be inclined to do so. The encounter I had lasted a minute and a half tops. I would comfortably say that within 10-15 seconds I was able to: asses the situation, establish a line of sight so I wouldn't get flanked, decide under what conditions I would present my weapon, decide who would be shot first, and decide I was just going to observe unless a specific set of conditions came into play (eg. 2 on 1 fight, someone else had a weapon, etc.). The rest of the time, I basically observed. __________________ Beretta 96FS :: HK USP Tatical :: Springfield XD45 :: Kimber Compact Stainless II :: HK P2000 SK

May 17, 2007, 02:41 PM	#7
Lurper Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 943	It doesn't take that long. Anyone who advocates rushing in without first calling 911 is a fool. While on the phone, you can assess the situation initially, that would just consist of taking in the entire scene. After giving your location, you can set the phone down (without hanging up) and begin to act. But you need to assess cover, positioning, etc. The Billy Bad A$$ who rushes into a crowd of 8 or 9 without knowing who is who or who is armed probably will not walk out. An assessment of this particular situation would only take a couple of seconds. Check the position of the BG, the bystanders, possible cover, then act.