Wolf ammo 'bad' for M1 carbine?

Chris_B · October 21, 2010, 04:36 PM

Due to the case I mean. I have heard this rumor. Does Wolf really beat up the carbine?

jonnyc · October 21, 2010, 04:43 PM

The US used plenty of steel cases in WWII, and the mild steel used for the cases is much softer than that used in the carbine. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Chris_B · October 21, 2010, 04:45 PM

Thanks Jonny!

Hardcase · October 21, 2010, 04:47 PM

It depends on who you ask. There are guys who claim that they've shot an army's worth of steel-cased ammo through their rifle and probably just as many who say that a box of Wolf ammo ruined the extractor on their carbine.

I'm not a metallurgist and the only steel-cased ammo I shoot is out of an SKS, so don't take my word as anything remotely like the gospel, but one opinion that I've heard several times is that if the extractor groove on the case isn't cut deep enough, the steel cases are really hard on an M1 carbine's extractor.

That's about the sum-total of my experience, though.

Chris_B · October 22, 2010, 04:37 PM

Well I only have 50 out of 250 that are Wolf so I'm not dead in the water. Thanks guys

kraigwy · October 22, 2010, 06:30 PM

CMP sells 500 rds of 30 cal Carbine for $200.

Chris_B · October 22, 2010, 06:50 PM

Heck of a deal. Should be the Aguila I think...but I want to go shooting tomorrow

astorbilt · October 24, 2010, 09:27 AM

I used to reload a lot of .30 Carbine. I have never fired steel cased ammo from any of my M1 Carbines. The carbine extractor is abusive to the case rims as it rides over. A good test would be to shoot 10 new brass cases and inspect the rims. Shoot 10 steel cases and inspect. IF the steel cases are soft and show some damage, the extractor must be harder?? IF the steel cases are NOT damaged would, it be safe to say that the extractor will suffer in the long term?

Would love to hear/see results of a comparison.

4INCHSMITH · October 24, 2010, 10:02 PM

You might want to look at this, Box-o-truth tried some Wolf .30 carbine out and they seemed less than satisfied.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu19.htm

Chris_B · October 30, 2010, 03:52 PM

Well, what I can say is that the Prvi and the odd no-name brass cased ammo I shot was OK. The no-name stuff was sealed in a factory box. The carbine ran like a top with both. Previously I had fired it from a USGI stock I purchased for it, and accuracy (for what it is) was better than just OK. This time I had it in it's M1A1 stock

I was hitting the black on an 8" bull at 100 yards. But then I fired a 15 round mag of factory Winchester .30 carbine and my groups were noticeably better, maybe 6" groups, I didn't actually measure them. I can't say if it was due to the ammo or due to the fact that it was the last 15 I fired and I was simply shooting better

doc540 · April 11, 2013, 10:57 AM

updated info on Wolf/M1 Carbine

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/146...s_of_Pics.html

I think the gun makes a significant difference in Wolf accuracy and how it runs.

tahunua001 · April 11, 2013, 01:04 PM

the M1 carbine was built to higher standards than a lot of guns you see today. some AR15s with poorly made budget parts may snap extractors on steel cases and cheap magazines with plastic followers may have the follower shaved down by steel cases but the 30 carbine does not have any of those problems. wolf is cheap, dirty, nasty stuff and many guns don't like it for accuracy but my AR15 is actually most accurate with wolf as far as plinking ammo goes and it has yet to skip a beat. my XDMs and MLE45 have had a pretty steady diet of steel cased ammo and had no ill effects.

Death from Afar · April 15, 2013, 02:27 AM

I have not used wolf, but I run a lot of steel cased - Barnaul, can you get that brand in the USA?- without a hitch. The M2's seem to love it.

salvadore · April 15, 2013, 07:55 AM

I shoot tula and herters (I believe is also tula) is there a difference from the wolf brand?

When I get jams in my 4/44 inland it manifests itself with a round picked up but won't push it up the feed ramp completely, however if I remember to take a spray lube, things move along much better.

Dalek · April 19, 2013, 06:14 PM

Having worked behind a gun shop counter... My 2 Cents...

Wolf is cheap. That can be a good thing.

My main concern was always, if Wolf (or Chinese ammo for that matter), blows up your gun, who do you growl at? Will they even care?

Having seen a few very nice firearms beaten up by bad ammo, I always put it this way to my customers.

"If you have a nice, new Ferrari...do you put 85 octane in the tank?"

gyrfalcon16 · April 19, 2013, 07:41 PM

I wouldn't use any of that commie junk in your bald eagle screaming M1!!!

Give or sell it to me really cheap.

chiefr · April 22, 2013, 08:16 AM

I find the Russian ammo in general accurate and reliable. Great plinking stuff at bargain prices.
Most problem I know of with Russian ammo has to do with extraction systems that do not like steel cases.
I have fired some of the Wolf steel cased 308 ammo thru a Rem 700 heavy barred match rifle despite sceptics telling me I would be lucky to keep the rounds in the black and would damage the rifle. The group was sub-MOA at 200yds and the rifle did not blow up.
I for one am greatful importers are supplying Russian ammo to us here in the USA.

444 · April 22, 2013, 07:04 PM

salvadore

Not to hijack the thread, but have you done any shooting for accuracy with that Herters ammo in .30 Carbine ?

I recently bought a couple boxes of it and fired some of it through a Ruger Blackhawk chambered in .30 Carbine. The accuracy was horrible. I haven't tried it yet in my M1 Carbine. But, out of the revolver, the accuracy was so bad, that I quit shooting after 12 rounds: I was wasting my time.

With this recent ammo shortage, this Herters stuff was almost the only thing on the shelf. So, I thought, what the heck I would give it a try.

salvadore · April 23, 2013, 01:45 PM

444, I've shot it casually and can say it is a tin can terror. I was planning on going to the range tomorrow if the wind doesn't blow (eastern idaho, good luck) and will take the carbine and some herters stuff. My eyesight has so far south, you will have to be satisfied with 50yd groups.

salvadore · May 3, 2013, 06:06 PM

Took a while, but at the range the Herters were less accurate than my handloads.

444 · May 3, 2013, 06:16 PM

Thank you.

I don't have much experience with the Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine and none (up until now) shooting it for serious accuracy off a bench. I had plinked with it a few times.
Point being, I really didn't know what kind of accuracy to expect, but I did know that the accuracy I was getting was horrible with the Herter's ammo. Even if the gun itself isn't a tack driver (it may be for all I know), 8" groups (or so) can't be normal.

October 21, 2010, 04:36 PM	#1
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Wolf ammo 'bad' for M1 carbine? Due to the case I mean. I have heard this rumor. Does Wolf really beat up the carbine?

October 21, 2010, 04:47 PM	#4
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	It depends on who you ask. There are guys who claim that they've shot an army's worth of steel-cased ammo through their rifle and probably just as many who say that a box of Wolf ammo ruined the extractor on their carbine. I'm not a metallurgist and the only steel-cased ammo I shoot is out of an SKS, so don't take my word as anything remotely like the gospel, but one opinion that I've heard several times is that if the extractor groove on the case isn't cut deep enough, the steel cases are really hard on an M1 carbine's extractor. That's about the sum-total of my experience, though. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

October 22, 2010, 06:30 PM	#6
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	CMP sells 500 rds of 30 cal Carbine for $200. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

October 24, 2010, 09:27 AM	#8
astorbilt Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Location: Forest City N.C. Posts: 48	I used to reload a lot of .30 Carbine. I have never fired steel cased ammo from any of my M1 Carbines. The carbine extractor is abusive to the case rims as it rides over. A good test would be to shoot 10 new brass cases and inspect the rims. Shoot 10 steel cases and inspect. IF the steel cases are soft and show some damage, the extractor must be harder?? IF the steel cases are NOT damaged would, it be safe to say that the extractor will suffer in the long term? Would love to hear/see results of a comparison. Last edited by astorbilt; October 24, 2010 at 09:36 AM.

October 24, 2010, 10:02 PM	#9
4INCHSMITH Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Location: Mid-Michigan Posts: 313	You might want to look at this, Box-o-truth tried some Wolf .30 carbine out and they seemed less than satisfied. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu19.htm __________________ "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence, supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without having to fight" -Sun Tzu

October 21, 2010, 04:43 PM	#2
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	The US used plenty of steel cases in WWII, and the mild steel used for the cases is much softer than that used in the carbine. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

October 21, 2010, 04:45 PM	#3
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Thanks Jonny!

October 22, 2010, 04:37 PM	#5
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Well I only have 50 out of 250 that are Wolf so I'm not dead in the water. Thanks guys

October 22, 2010, 06:50 PM	#7
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Heck of a deal. Should be the Aguila I think...but I want to go shooting tomorrow

October 30, 2010, 03:52 PM	#10
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Well, what I can say is that the Prvi and the odd no-name brass cased ammo I shot was OK. The no-name stuff was sealed in a factory box. The carbine ran like a top with both. Previously I had fired it from a USGI stock I purchased for it, and accuracy (for what it is) was better than just OK. This time I had it in it's M1A1 stock I was hitting the black on an 8" bull at 100 yards. But then I fired a 15 round mag of factory Winchester .30 carbine and my groups were noticeably better, maybe 6" groups, I didn't actually measure them. I can't say if it was due to the ammo or due to the fact that it was the last 15 I fired and I was simply shooting better

April 11, 2013, 10:57 AM	#11
doc540 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,430	updated info on Wolf/M1 Carbine http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/146...s_of_Pics.html I think the gun makes a significant difference in Wolf accuracy and how it runs. __________________ Shooting more, typing less

April 11, 2013, 01:04 PM	#12
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	the M1 carbine was built to higher standards than a lot of guns you see today. some AR15s with poorly made budget parts may snap extractors on steel cases and cheap magazines with plastic followers may have the follower shaved down by steel cases but the 30 carbine does not have any of those problems. wolf is cheap, dirty, nasty stuff and many guns don't like it for accuracy but my AR15 is actually most accurate with wolf as far as plinking ammo goes and it has yet to skip a beat. my XDMs and MLE45 have had a pretty steady diet of steel cased ammo and had no ill effects. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

April 15, 2013, 02:27 AM	#13
Death from Afar Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Living the dream in Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND Posts: 1,635	I have not used wolf, but I run a lot of steel cased - Barnaul, can you get that brand in the USA?- without a hitch. The M2's seem to love it. __________________ "Beware of the Man with one gun...he probably isnt into guns enough to be safe with it".

April 15, 2013, 07:55 AM	#14
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	I shoot tula and herters (I believe is also tula) is there a difference from the wolf brand? When I get jams in my 4/44 inland it manifests itself with a round picked up but won't push it up the feed ramp completely, however if I remember to take a spray lube, things move along much better.

April 19, 2013, 06:14 PM	#15
Dalek Member Join Date: April 10, 2013 Posts: 64	Having worked behind a gun shop counter... My 2 Cents... Wolf is cheap. That can be a good thing. My main concern was always, if Wolf (or Chinese ammo for that matter), blows up your gun, who do you growl at? Will they even care? Having seen a few very nice firearms beaten up by bad ammo, I always put it this way to my customers. "If you have a nice, new Ferrari...do you put 85 octane in the tank?"

April 19, 2013, 07:41 PM	#16
gyrfalcon16 Member Join Date: December 5, 2006 Posts: 16	I wouldn't use any of that commie junk in your bald eagle screaming M1!!! Give or sell it to me really cheap.

April 22, 2013, 08:16 AM	#17
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	I find the Russian ammo in general accurate and reliable. Great plinking stuff at bargain prices. Most problem I know of with Russian ammo has to do with extraction systems that do not like steel cases. I have fired some of the Wolf steel cased 308 ammo thru a Rem 700 heavy barred match rifle despite sceptics telling me I would be lucky to keep the rounds in the black and would damage the rifle. The group was sub-MOA at 200yds and the rifle did not blow up. I for one am greatful importers are supplying Russian ammo to us here in the USA.

April 22, 2013, 07:04 PM	#18
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	salvadore Not to hijack the thread, but have you done any shooting for accuracy with that Herters ammo in .30 Carbine ? I recently bought a couple boxes of it and fired some of it through a Ruger Blackhawk chambered in .30 Carbine. The accuracy was horrible. I haven't tried it yet in my M1 Carbine. But, out of the revolver, the accuracy was so bad, that I quit shooting after 12 rounds: I was wasting my time. With this recent ammo shortage, this Herters stuff was almost the only thing on the shelf. So, I thought, what the heck I would give it a try. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

April 23, 2013, 01:45 PM	#19
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	444, I've shot it casually and can say it is a tin can terror. I was planning on going to the range tomorrow if the wind doesn't blow (eastern idaho, good luck) and will take the carbine and some herters stuff. My eyesight has so far south, you will have to be satisfied with 50yd groups.

May 3, 2013, 06:06 PM	#20
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	Took a while, but at the range the Herters were less accurate than my handloads.

May 3, 2013, 06:16 PM	#21
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	Thank you. I don't have much experience with the Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine and none (up until now) shooting it for serious accuracy off a bench. I had plinked with it a few times. Point being, I really didn't know what kind of accuracy to expect, but I did know that the accuracy I was getting was horrible with the Herter's ammo. Even if the gun itself isn't a tack driver (it may be for all I know), 8" groups (or so) can't be normal. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.