Load Hints

roy reali · March 4, 2006, 12:49 AM

I recently aquired an older revolver chambered in .38 S&W. Reloading data for this cartridge is sparse. I guess this is not the most popular round shoth these days.

Anyway, the gun has been declared fit by a gunsmith. I want to shoot it , but I want to use light loads. I want to use cast bullets to be easy on the barrel.

Does anyone reload for this cartridge?

Any suggested light cast bullet loads?

Johnny Guest · March 4, 2006, 02:10 AM

Roy, you don't tell us what it is other than an old revolver. The old .38 S&W ctg was used in such diverse handguns as a BUNCH of turn of the (last) century, small frame break tops, and the far stronger Webley and Enfield British service revolvers, and the Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector, K-frames. The swing-out S&Ws are certainly strong enough to accept some pretty stout .38 Special pressures. Some of the old "Suicide Specials" were of merely marginal strength a century ago.

I've handloaded for all three classes of those revolvers, and I keep the loads pretty well separated. In recent years, though, I've realized that I own plenty of wheel guns far better suited for personal defense. Any .38 S&W ammo I've loaded lately has been suitable for the weakest I'll run across. They're all for fun, anyway.

Factory .38 S&W ammo uses a 145 gr. RNL bullet propelled at about 730 fps. Frank Barnes' excellent book, Cartridges of the World, 3rd edition, shows a factory duplication load with the 145 gr bullet and 2.2 gr. of Bullseye. As that edition has a 1972 copyright date, I'd even back down on that mild load unless I had one of the swing-out models. Go even lighter if you use the heavier .38 Spl bullets.

Best,
Johnny

roy reali · March 4, 2006, 12:18 PM

The gun in question is one of the older, hinged frame revolvers. I realize that it is of dubious strength. That is why I took it to a gunsmith. He did declare it mechanically sound. He also told me to shoot only the lightest loads possible through it.

That is why I have started this thread. I want some guidance towards a good, light cast load for the .38 S&W cartridge. All I want the load to do is have the bullet exit the barrel and hit paper at twenty feet or so.

I hope this added information helps.

Leftoverdj · March 4, 2006, 09:30 PM

Roy, the older .38 S&Ws had the oddball groove diameter standard of .360 and often had wide tolerances. A round ball in the .360-.365 range over a grain and a half of Bullseye or whatever fast pistol powder you have around would do what you want to do at very low pressures. Your best bet among bullets would be to have some of the 95 grain bullets for the 9mm Makarov sized down to .360 and relubed. The moulds for the .380 are unlikely to cast large enough.

gb_in_ga · March 4, 2006, 11:20 PM

You might want to check out M.D. Smith's loading pages, he has a page on the .38 S&W here that includes light loads for the break tops.

Johnny Guest · March 7, 2006, 11:19 PM

roy, if you don't want to disclose the brand name of your revolver, I guess that's your business. I can't see how it would be a security issue, though. Is it possible that the revolver has been so rusted and pitted that the factory markings are not visible? Or that it has been refinished and buffed so hard that the markings were obliterated? If this is the case, I'd suggest you NOT shoot it at all, with any loads.

If it is some foreign made type, with no brand name on it, the same caution applies.

If it is a S&W, Iver-Johnson, Hopkins & Allen, Forehand & Wadsworth, Merwin & Hulbert - - Any of those pretty good old American made "ampersand" types, without deep pitting and with a solid lockup, then go for it. Leftoverdj's advice about a .360 round ball and a bit of Bullseye or Unique is good. If you can get by a big gun show where there are dealers that sell wide varieties of cast bullets, you might locate some 130- to 150 gr. LRN bullets properly sized for the .38 S&W.

Another possible bullet, and certainly the easiest to locate, is the swaged lead 148 gr. .38 Spl hollow base wadcutter. The same 1.5 to 2 gr. of Bullseye would cause the base to "slug out" and fill the bore nicely.

Good luck
Johnny

kart racer · March 8, 2006, 07:17 PM

Speer #13 says w/158 gr lead swc,hp or rn
2.4-2.7 red dot
2.2-2.4 bullseye
2.8-3.1 unique
2.3-2.6 231
2.9-3.2 herco
2.6-2.9 sr7625
lyman also has a bunch if your interested.

roy reali · March 8, 2006, 07:27 PM

The revolver in question is an Hopkins and Allen. The top latch locks like a safe. It can only be opened by operating the release mechanism.

I just want to shoot it out of curiosity. I don't want to put any unneeded stress on the firearm.

March 4, 2006, 02:10 AM	#2
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Like the man says, "It all depends." Roy, you don't tell us what it is other than an old revolver. The old .38 S&W ctg was used in such diverse handguns as a BUNCH of turn of the (last) century, small frame break tops, and the far stronger Webley and Enfield British service revolvers, and the Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector, K-frames. The swing-out S&Ws are certainly strong enough to accept some pretty stout .38 Special pressures. Some of the old "Suicide Specials" were of merely marginal strength a century ago. I've handloaded for all three classes of those revolvers, and I keep the loads pretty well separated. In recent years, though, I've realized that I own plenty of wheel guns far better suited for personal defense. Any .38 S&W ammo I've loaded lately has been suitable for the weakest I'll run across. They're all for fun, anyway. Factory .38 S&W ammo uses a 145 gr. RNL bullet propelled at about 730 fps. Frank Barnes' excellent book, Cartridges of the World, 3rd edition, shows a factory duplication load with the 145 gr bullet and 2.2 gr. of Bullseye. As that edition has a 1972 copyright date, I'd even back down on that mild load unless I had one of the swing-out models. Go even lighter if you use the heavier .38 Spl bullets. Best, Johnny

March 4, 2006, 12:18 PM	#3
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	More Info The gun in question is one of the older, hinged frame revolvers. I realize that it is of dubious strength. That is why I took it to a gunsmith. He did declare it mechanically sound. He also told me to shoot only the lightest loads possible through it. That is why I have started this thread. I want some guidance towards a good, light cast load for the .38 S&W cartridge. All I want the load to do is have the bullet exit the barrel and hit paper at twenty feet or so. I hope this added information helps.

March 4, 2006, 11:20 PM	#5
gb_in_ga Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Location: Pensacola, Fl Posts: 3,092	You might want to check out M.D. Smith's loading pages, he has a page on the .38 S&W here that includes light loads for the break tops. __________________ COME AND TAKE IT http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/batgon.htm Formerly lived in Ga, but now I'm back in Tx! Aaaand, now I'm off to Fla...

March 7, 2006, 11:19 PM	#6
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	A mystery revolver? roy, if you don't want to disclose the brand name of your revolver, I guess that's your business. I can't see how it would be a security issue, though. Is it possible that the revolver has been so rusted and pitted that the factory markings are not visible? Or that it has been refinished and buffed so hard that the markings were obliterated? If this is the case, I'd suggest you NOT shoot it at all, with any loads. If it is some foreign made type, with no brand name on it, the same caution applies. If it is a S&W, Iver-Johnson, Hopkins & Allen, Forehand & Wadsworth, Merwin & Hulbert - - Any of those pretty good old American made "ampersand" types, without deep pitting and with a solid lockup, then go for it. Leftoverdj's advice about a .360 round ball and a bit of Bullseye or Unique is good. If you can get by a big gun show where there are dealers that sell wide varieties of cast bullets, you might locate some 130- to 150 gr. LRN bullets properly sized for the .38 S&W. Another possible bullet, and certainly the easiest to locate, is the swaged lead 148 gr. .38 Spl hollow base wadcutter. The same 1.5 to 2 gr. of Bullseye would cause the base to "slug out" and fill the bore nicely. Good luck Johnny

March 8, 2006, 07:17 PM	#7
kart racer Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Posts: 175	loads Speer #13 says w/158 gr lead swc,hp or rn 2.4-2.7 red dot 2.2-2.4 bullseye 2.8-3.1 unique 2.3-2.6 231 2.9-3.2 herco 2.6-2.9 sr7625 lyman also has a bunch if your interested.

March 4, 2006, 12:49 AM	#1
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Load Hints I recently aquired an older revolver chambered in .38 S&W. Reloading data for this cartridge is sparse. I guess this is not the most popular round shoth these days. Anyway, the gun has been declared fit by a gunsmith. I want to shoot it , but I want to use light loads. I want to use cast bullets to be easy on the barrel. Does anyone reload for this cartridge? Any suggested light cast bullet loads?

March 4, 2006, 09:30 PM	#4
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	Roy, the older .38 S&Ws had the oddball groove diameter standard of .360 and often had wide tolerances. A round ball in the .360-.365 range over a grain and a half of Bullseye or whatever fast pistol powder you have around would do what you want to do at very low pressures. Your best bet among bullets would be to have some of the 95 grain bullets for the 9mm Makarov sized down to .360 and relubed. The moulds for the .380 are unlikely to cast large enough.

March 8, 2006, 07:27 PM	#8
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	The Gun The revolver in question is an Hopkins and Allen. The top latch locks like a safe. It can only be opened by operating the release mechanism. I just want to shoot it out of curiosity. I don't want to put any unneeded stress on the firearm.