I can't find 300gr .44 bullets but...

Pond, James Pond · December 10, 2012, 05:52 PM

... I found these from Hornady.

They are classed as rifle bullets but is there any reason they could not be used in a Redhawk revolver provided I got the OAL correct?

It would be an additional 12% or so in weight over the 240s I have now.

Only other difference is these are .430 and not .429.

There is a Hornady stockist here who could order them in their next bulk buy...

In case anyone is not up to date with my aspirations, this would be a woods load capable of giving the likes of bear and elk some acupuncture, in case they came looking for "therapy"...

m&p45acp10+1 · December 10, 2012, 06:35 PM

They should work just fine a Red Hawk as long as you can handle the recoil. Many hunters have been using them for a lot of years in the woods.

oldpapps · December 10, 2012, 06:55 PM

"classed as rifle bullets but is there any reason they could not be used in a Redhawk revolver provided I got the OAL correct?

It would be an additional 12% or so in weight over the 240s I have now.

Only other difference is these are .430 and not .429."

Yes these are listed under 'Rifle' bullets section. So what. They will be harder, thicker jacket and maybe lead. I wouldn't expect a great deal of expansion at pistol velocities. As for being .430 over .429s, functionally the same. All of my leads are .430.

The important things to remember:
Harder/stiffer bullets can and will be harder to push, that will raise pressures.
265 grain bullets will be harder to push (over the 240s you have been using), that will raise pressures.

I would stick with 240 grain bullets and look for heavier lead, say 300gr and hard, to do your 'acupuncture'.

If you elect to load these 265 grainers, start with the lightest listed charge and slowly work up. I see no reason that they couldn't be loaded safely.

Additionally, with your Redhawk, the OAL must be short enough to chamber and still have enough bullet in the case to provide suitable tension to hold the bullet during recoil.

Be safe,

OSOK

Ozzieman · December 10, 2012, 07:20 PM

.429 and .430 are normal sizes for the 44. Rugers normally like a slightly larger bullet. I use 431 lead in my Super Blackhawk and 77/44.
I agree with oldpapps, stick with 240’s. For jacketed bullets you need velocity to get them expand that much.
I also never got the accuracy that I have with lead. I shoot lead almost exclusively.
If you do decide to try lead here are a couple from Penn.
He has a 240 truncated cone that has accuracy that I have never topped with any bullet that I have ever tried, and I have tried a lot. And 1400 FPS out of a rifle is easy to achieve.
The one that is a bulldozer for deer at reasonable range is his 320. It drops like a rock after 50 yards but you should see what it does to a deer at 75. But out of my Super Blackhawk it’s hard on the hand.
http://www.pennbullets.com/44/44-caliber.html

m&p45acp10+1 · December 10, 2012, 07:24 PM

The only people that I know that load with the 300 grain bullets use non expanding cast lead. They use them for penetration in large game, and bears.

nate45 · December 10, 2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpapps

They will be harder, thicker jacket and maybe lead. I wouldn't expect a great deal of expansion at pistol velocities.

Recommended muzzle velocity range for the Inter-Lock line of bullets is 2000 to 3300 fps. So no, you won't be getting good expansion. Inter-Locks are obviously structured for rifle velocities. The .429 .300 grain XTP on the other hand, has an expansion range from 700-1500 fps. http://www.hornady.com/bullets

.430 is fine for loading in the .429 though, so you have no worries there.

GeauxTide · December 10, 2012, 08:43 PM

The 265 was developed for the .444 Marlin. As stated, you won't get much expansion; however, you should get penetration in feet with top loads.

oneoldsap · December 10, 2012, 09:15 PM

Hornady .44 Mag. bullets are indeed .430 while everyone elses are .429 . Why can't you get 300 XTPs . I load them for my SRH and they are wicked Black Bear medicine over 20 Gr. of W-296/H-110 .

Pond, James Pond · December 11, 2012, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Why can't you get 300 XTPs .

I believe those are hollow-points and HPs are a no-no where I live.

Quote:

They will be harder, thicker jacket and maybe lead. I wouldn't expect a great deal of expansion at pistol velocities.

I'm not actually after expansion. I'm more after penetration regardless of skeletal obstacles.

This is purely a "kindly don't eat/gore me" load for when I'm in the forests.

All in all, they sound like a real, accessible option.

youngunz4life · December 11, 2012, 02:29 AM

I buy the 300gr .44 hollowpoints. they can be found just go to a bigger gunstore instead of a hardware store as an example. they are my favorite .44 caliber round.

youngunz4life · December 11, 2012, 02:31 AM

PS - I just saw your updated post James....my bad, maybe you are in NJ? Wow, even in rifles it is an issue? Either way, I respect you for following the law in your state...you usually can't go wrong if you make an honest attempt to do the right thing.

Pond, James Pond · December 11, 2012, 05:26 AM

Not NJ either!!

No, I live in Estonia.

HPs for rifle are fine and legal, but these would be loaded into a handgun so, still forbidden.

reloader28 · December 11, 2012, 08:30 AM

I have some of those Hornady bullets sitting on the shelf. I keep them around for a rainy day. I loaded them for bears until I started casting bullets. Then I pulled them all and threw them on the shelf.

If you want bear protection or a good hunting bullet, go with a home cast bullet. Not a store bought. Home cast. You'll have a bullet to rival the best jacketed bullets in the world and dont cost that much to start up.

481 · December 11, 2012, 12:00 PM

Y'know, reloader28 might be onto something there...

Since availability is a problem, is casting your bullets an option for you under Estonian law?

That would allow you to select any bullet design from an almost infinite variety of molds (short of a hollowpoint, obviously) and a good starting point for a fairly hard alloy would be 4% tin, 11% antimony, and 85% lead- ought to give at least 20 BHN.

mikld · December 11, 2012, 12:06 PM

SAAMI specs for .44 Magnum rifle barrel dimensions differ from handgun dimensions. IIRC; .431" rifle and .429" for handgin.

Cheap 870 · December 11, 2012, 12:46 PM

Midway USA has all the 300gr bullets.

Pond, James Pond · December 11, 2012, 02:45 PM

Quote:

If you want bear protection or a good hunting bullet, go with a home cast bullet. Not a store bought. Home cast.

Casting... Hmmmm.

I'd be interested, but realistically, I wouldn't have the space, nor money to buy the stuff, I also have no idea where I can get hold of the lead. Environmental legislation has reduced the amount of lead circulating as wheel weights or other stuff. As far as I know it is legal, but I'd have to check again.

TBH, I'd probably buy about 100-200 such bullets, then develop a load, make up 50 or so cartridges and only load them when going out.

I can buy 265gr H&N bullets in the meanitme just for range practice...

Quote:

Midway USA has all the 300gr bullets.

All Midways are outside the country and I would need an import licence to get them even from Finland or Germany!! Very expensive and I would need a services licence as well...

Cheap 870 · December 11, 2012, 02:48 PM

Sorry didn't notice you weren't in US.

Pond, James Pond · December 11, 2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Sorry didn't notice you weren't in US.

No problemo, senor!

(As they don't say in Estonia!!)

Mike / Tx · December 11, 2012, 08:25 PM

I don't know if you can get your hands on Speer Bullets over there but here are a couple that I have shot out to 100yds from my RH with excellent accuracy,

4463 44 300 / 19.44 44 Mag JSP

4461 44 270 / 17.5 44 Mag DCSP

They should penetrate deeply into anything you throw them at.

458winshooter · December 11, 2012, 10:34 PM

Hornady's load manual lists load data for the 265gr under their 44 mag section as well as their 300gr.All Hornady bullets for the 44 mag are .430 diameter according to their book both lead and jacketed.

Pond, James Pond · December 12, 2012, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Hornady's load manual lists load data for the 265gr under their 44 mag section as well as their 300gr.All Hornady bullets for the 44 mag are .430 diameter according to their book both lead and jacketed.

I don't suppose the Hornady manual gives any Vihtavuori powder charges for that bullet, does it?

If so, would you mind posting them?
As usual, finding an appropriate charge is proving hard to find!!

reloader28 · December 13, 2012, 08:51 AM

Hornady edition 6

265gr FP
Viht N-105 = 12.8-14.5
Viht N-110 = 17.3-19.4

300gr HP XTP
Viht N-105 = 11.7-12.8
Viht N-110 = 14.9-16.6

Rifleman1776 · December 13, 2012, 09:16 AM

Lots of good replies. I'll just add from experience that the recoil factor increases substantially with 300 gr. bullets in a .44 mag. Redhawk. One cylinder full is what I call a shooting 'session' with these because they are so tiring and punishing to shoot.

Pond, James Pond · December 13, 2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

165gr FP
Viht N-105 = 12.8-14.5
Viht N-110 = 17.3-19.4

Thanks Reloader28!! That is great, although I assume you meant 265gr!!

Quote:

One cylinder full is what I call a shooting 'session' with these because they are so tiring and punishing to shoot.

Noteworthy for sure, but luckily this would be a woods load: Develop the charge, load it, and then leave it on the shelf until I next go to the forest. I'd shoot it once in a while, but probably shoot loads of 240grs in the interim to get closer to the recoil....

December 10, 2012, 05:52 PM	#1
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	I can't find 300gr .44 bullets but... ... I found these from Hornady. They are classed as rifle bullets but is there any reason they could not be used in a Redhawk revolver provided I got the OAL correct? It would be an additional 12% or so in weight over the 240s I have now. Only other difference is these are .430 and not .429. There is a Hornady stockist here who could order them in their next bulk buy... In case anyone is not up to date with my aspirations, this would be a woods load capable of giving the likes of bear and elk some acupuncture, in case they came looking for "therapy"... __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

December 10, 2012, 06:35 PM	#2
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	They should work just fine a Red Hawk as long as you can handle the recoil. Many hunters have been using them for a lot of years in the woods. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

December 10, 2012, 07:20 PM	#4
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	.429 and .430 are normal sizes for the 44. Rugers normally like a slightly larger bullet. I use 431 lead in my Super Blackhawk and 77/44. I agree with oldpapps, stick with 240’s. For jacketed bullets you need velocity to get them expand that much. I also never got the accuracy that I have with lead. I shoot lead almost exclusively. If you do decide to try lead here are a couple from Penn. He has a 240 truncated cone that has accuracy that I have never topped with any bullet that I have ever tried, and I have tried a lot. And 1400 FPS out of a rifle is easy to achieve. The one that is a bulldozer for deer at reasonable range is his 320. It drops like a rock after 50 yards but you should see what it does to a deer at 75. But out of my Super Blackhawk it’s hard on the hand. http://www.pennbullets.com/44/44-caliber.html __________________ It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe. Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe.

December 10, 2012, 07:24 PM	#5
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	The only people that I know that load with the 300 grain bullets use non expanding cast lead. They use them for penetration in large game, and bears. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

December 11, 2012, 02:29 AM	#10
youngunz4life Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2010 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,877	I buy the 300gr .44 hollowpoints. they can be found just go to a bigger gunstore instead of a hardware store as an example. they are my favorite .44 caliber round. __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864

December 10, 2012, 06:55 PM	#3
oldpapps Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Middle America Posts: 518	"classed as rifle bullets but is there any reason they could not be used in a Redhawk revolver provided I got the OAL correct? It would be an additional 12% or so in weight over the 240s I have now. Only other difference is these are .430 and not .429." Yes these are listed under 'Rifle' bullets section. So what. They will be harder, thicker jacket and maybe lead. I wouldn't expect a great deal of expansion at pistol velocities. As for being .430 over .429s, functionally the same. All of my leads are .430. The important things to remember: Harder/stiffer bullets can and will be harder to push, that will raise pressures. 265 grain bullets will be harder to push (over the 240s you have been using), that will raise pressures. I would stick with 240 grain bullets and look for heavier lead, say 300gr and hard, to do your 'acupuncture'. If you elect to load these 265 grainers, start with the lightest listed charge and slowly work up. I see no reason that they couldn't be loaded safely. Additionally, with your Redhawk, the OAL must be short enough to chamber and still have enough bullet in the case to provide suitable tension to hold the bullet during recoil. Be safe, OSOK

December 10, 2012, 08:43 PM	#7
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,423	The 265 was developed for the .444 Marlin. As stated, you won't get much expansion; however, you should get penetration in feet with top loads.

December 10, 2012, 09:15 PM	#8
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	Hornady .44 Mag. bullets are indeed .430 while everyone elses are .429 . Why can't you get 300 XTPs . I load them for my SRH and they are wicked Black Bear medicine over 20 Gr. of W-296/H-110 .

December 11, 2012, 02:31 AM	#11
youngunz4life Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2010 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,877	PS - I just saw your updated post James....my bad, maybe you are in NJ? Wow, even in rifles it is an issue? Either way, I respect you for following the law in your state...you usually can't go wrong if you make an honest attempt to do the right thing. __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864

December 11, 2012, 05:26 AM	#12
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	Not NJ either!! No, I live in Estonia. HPs for rifle are fine and legal, but these would be loaded into a handgun so, still forbidden. __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

December 11, 2012, 08:30 AM	#13
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	I have some of those Hornady bullets sitting on the shelf. I keep them around for a rainy day. I loaded them for bears until I started casting bullets. Then I pulled them all and threw them on the shelf. If you want bear protection or a good hunting bullet, go with a home cast bullet. Not a store bought. Home cast. You'll have a bullet to rival the best jacketed bullets in the world and dont cost that much to start up.

December 11, 2012, 12:00 PM	#14
481 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Posts: 540	Y'know, reloader28 might be onto something there... Since availability is a problem, is casting your bullets an option for you under Estonian law? That would allow you to select any bullet design from an almost infinite variety of molds (short of a hollowpoint, obviously) and a good starting point for a fairly hard alloy would be 4% tin, 11% antimony, and 85% lead- ought to give at least 20 BHN. __________________ QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION

December 11, 2012, 12:06 PM	#15
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	SAAMI specs for .44 Magnum rifle barrel dimensions differ from handgun dimensions. IIRC; .431" rifle and .429" for handgin. __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

December 11, 2012, 12:46 PM	#16
Cheap 870 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 159	Midway USA has all the 300gr bullets.

December 11, 2012, 02:48 PM	#18
Cheap 870 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 159	Sorry didn't notice you weren't in US.

December 11, 2012, 08:25 PM	#20
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	I don't know if you can get your hands on Speer Bullets over there but here are a couple that I have shot out to 100yds from my RH with excellent accuracy, 4463 44 300 / 19.44 44 Mag JSP 4461 44 270 / 17.5 44 Mag DCSP They should penetrate deeply into anything you throw them at. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

December 11, 2012, 10:34 PM	#21
458winshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Transplanted to Ridgeland,SC Posts: 606	429-430 Hornady's load manual lists load data for the 265gr under their 44 mag section as well as their 300gr.All Hornady bullets for the 44 mag are .430 diameter according to their book both lead and jacketed.

December 13, 2012, 08:51 AM	#23
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	Hornady edition 6 265gr FP Viht N-105 = 12.8-14.5 Viht N-110 = 17.3-19.4 300gr HP XTP Viht N-105 = 11.7-12.8 Viht N-110 = 14.9-16.6 Last edited by reloader28; December 14, 2012 at 12:03 AM. Reason: I oops

December 13, 2012, 09:16 AM	#24
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Lots of good replies. I'll just add from experience that the recoil factor increases substantially with 300 gr. bullets in a .44 mag. Redhawk. One cylinder full is what I call a shooting 'session' with these because they are so tiring and punishing to shoot.