August 30, 2012, 12:03 PM | #1 |
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PA PICS denial
Hello all,
In February 2012 I purchased a pistol from the LGS, PICS approval number in less then 10 minutes, got the pistol and was good to go. The pistol I originally purchased was defective after 4 months, sent back to manufacture, it could not be repaired so a replacement was shipped. I went to pick up the replacement last night and the PICS system denied me the right to pick up my replacement pistol. The LGS manager questioned the operator (he was the same person that sold me the original pistol) stating that I was ok'd for it back in February and gave the operator the approval number (I keep that paperwork in my range bag). Not one thing has changed since February, no police stops, no arrests/detainments, no charges filed or dropped, absolutely nothing at all happened since February, not even any traffic stops, NOTHING has changed at all in the time that's gone by. I did a docket search using the link below, I checked the magisterial courts as well as the Philadelphia courts and no records were found with my name and birthday under any of the search criteria. I omitted my birthday and ran the search again, 3 people with the same name as me popped up, each with a different middle initial, each with different birthdays and each had criminal records....BUT, none of them were me. http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/ Needless to say, I'm worried, concerned, scared and a little angry at the situation. The shop manager told me this happens quite frequently with the PICS system. A couple of the employees that work for the shop were denied trying to purchase after numerous successful purchases. The application is in "research" right now and I'm to wait a maximum of 15 days for a determination. I'm aware that if it comes back denied I can challenge it, but that's after the waiting period. What really bothers me is, if it comes back denied after an appeal, will I be totally SOL in terms of recovering the money I spent on the original pistol? Technically the replacement pistol is mine but I'm not allowed to have it, so if I'm not allowed to have it, does that mean I'm not allowed to sell it to the shop? In the mean time, is there anything I can do to find out what is going on? Why I was approved in February and 6 months later I'm denied after having done nothing? Any suggestions on how to go about this would be greatly appreciated!!! ESB Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; August 30, 2012 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Language |
August 30, 2012, 12:14 PM | #2 |
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Not everyone likes to do it, but giving them your SSN seems to avoid a lot of these mishaps.
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August 30, 2012, 12:15 PM | #3 |
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I did provide my SSN, I didn't want to but for the sake of making sure they had the right person, I wrote it in. I did it on the last application too.
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August 30, 2012, 12:16 PM | #4 |
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Wow, then that's pretty annoying.
Hope it gets straightened out. |
August 30, 2012, 12:18 PM | #5 |
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Me too. This is majorly upsetting, first the pistol I bought breaks and now I can't get the replacement. Very frustrating to say the least!!!
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August 30, 2012, 01:28 PM | #6 |
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That's nuts....I got delayed the first couple of times by NICS. Understandable, as I was not always as well behaved as I am now. But annoying nonetheless.
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August 30, 2012, 02:16 PM | #7 |
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We all do dumb stuff when we're younger, that's part of growing up. The only thing on my record, if it even applies, would be an underage drinking charge but that case was thrown out.
If you want to talk about nuts, I've got all 6 dockets from this other person with the same name (as me) open; 5 of the 6 are in the same township (western PA, I guess), 2 of the 6 has a different DOB and the guy happens to have the SAME color eyes as me. Really weird!!! The only two things different are the decade he was born and hair color; I was born in the early 70s and this dude has DOBs of 83, 85 and 89 (4 of the six are 89). Yeah, I'm studying the hell out of them, this really bothers me; from looking at the charges, I don't want to be confused with this guy!!! Oh well, I just have to wait and see if it get sorted out. It was such a bummer seeing the new pistol and not being able to try it or bring it home, that really harshed my mellow...lol. Thanks for the replies! Last edited by ESB; August 30, 2012 at 02:42 PM. |
August 30, 2012, 04:08 PM | #8 |
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Just a question here....
(Assuming that you don't) If you had a CHL would you still have this issue? |
August 30, 2012, 06:08 PM | #9 |
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I'm not so sure a CHL (or LTCF/CCW in PA) would make any difference in this particular situation. They use the same PICS system to run the background checks on those too. Plus, living in Philly, I hear they're very hard to get. I suppose having one for future purchases might help, but, if guys working at the LGS (they all carry) are getting denials that doesn't offer too much in the way of hope.
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August 30, 2012, 09:38 PM | #10 |
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Call the dealer and get your NTN (NICS Transaction Number). Follow the instructions here to get any confusion cleared up.
Sounds like there's something in the database that's wrong.
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August 30, 2012, 11:25 PM | #11 | |
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Quote:
Thanks for the appeal link, hopefully I won't need it, but I have no faith in the system and probably will, I'll definitely keep the link handy! BTW, AWESOME screen name; MST3K rules!!! |
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August 30, 2012, 11:33 PM | #12 | |
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I must admit to having skimmed too quickly, and I was under the impression you were denied by the federal NICS system. The Pennsylvania system does seem a bit more arbitrary.
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August 30, 2012, 11:53 PM | #13 | |
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Yes, it's a redundant system, PICS does cross reference NICS. And PICS crashes or is taken offline a lot from what I've been reading about it (it was taken off line in May and I believe it was offline just a few weeks ago, 8/19 to be exact if I read the article right). I was told by the dealer to wait until Tuesday to give them a call, this way 3 business days have gone by; he expects to hear something by tomorrow. Guess I'll see what happens tomorrow, if the dealer calls I'll know one way or the other for sure, if not, I'll have to pester them on Tuesday. |
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August 31, 2012, 12:01 AM | #14 | |
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What strikes me as odd, and possibly fertile ground for future litigation, is that the PICS system places a heavier burden than the federal NICS system. Under the NICS system, a transaction that's delayed may only be held for three business days before the dealer is allowed to release the firearm. The whole idea is that they can't leave you hanging for an unreasonable amount of time.
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August 31, 2012, 01:40 AM | #15 | ||
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Quote:
Sorry for getting off topic everyone, we're human behind these computer screens. It doesn't have to be all business, does it? Meanwhile, back in PA... Quote:
http://canon-mcmillan.patch.com/arti...tem-yay-or-nay |
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September 4, 2012, 06:55 PM | #16 |
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ESB:
It appears that you have run into The Coal and Iron Cops, aka The Pennsylvania State Police, at their finest level of incompetence. By the way, I cannot see why you gave them your Social Security Number, federal courts having told them several years ago, that their demands therefore were a violation of federal law. References to the Social Security Number, in-so-far as I understand were removed from the PSP/State forms, and notices had been posted in gun stores about the Social Security Number requirement haveing been done away with. |
September 4, 2012, 10:35 PM | #17 | |
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Finally, it was approved. I got a call this afternoon and already picked up and put nearly 200 rounds through it.
Quote:
It did state that the SSN was optional and the dealer explained it simply enough. If I provide it, it helps identify me quicker and more accurately. Having nothing to hide, I filled it in. I can see from your reaction, this is something I shouldn't have done? What are the downfalls of providing an SSN on an application form? This is only the 2nd time I've gone through the process (un-wantingly I might add) so it's all new to me. Aside from the state and local laws for PA with regard to firearm ownership and carry, I know those, but, I don't know enough to know what providing an SSN could be used for other then IDing me. Anyway, I got the pistol, fired it and loved it....now it's time for it's first cleaning. Thanks for all the posts everyone, I'm glad for the advice and even more so that the problem got corrected. ESB |
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September 5, 2012, 09:21 AM | #18 |
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Most people object to giving the SSN because you're also giving it to your LGS salesman. We'd like to believe they are all upstanding people, but that isn't always the case.
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