Equipment Selection Scenario

Christopher II · May 20, 2005, 08:49 PM

Here's how it is - you're going to be leaving for Iraq in six weeks, to do a tour as a technical contractor. Although this is a strictly civilian, non-combat job, you will be required to be armed.

The contract requires you to provide one 5.56mm AR-15 carbine, six magazines, and one .45ACP pistol. Ammunition and other consumables will be provided in-theater.

Weapon-wise, what would you take? Assume an unlimited budget, but whatever you take, you have to be able to get in 4-6 weeks.

Thanks,
Chris

locked'n'cocked · May 20, 2005, 09:12 PM

full auto M16, and an SA 1911. and a bullet proof vest.

jonathon · May 20, 2005, 11:11 PM

a standard class III vest.. an AKSU-74..... a good pair of danners... Russian LBV... and either a 3" GP-100 or a 3" 686..

I think the danners, the vest, and the sidearm would be the most important part.. gotta protect your feet, and your chest, and most likely, you'll only be defending yourself, not actually fighting(Unless your security..)

IZinterrogator · May 21, 2005, 12:08 AM

A Bushmaster or Rock River Arms carbine and a USP45.

payne · May 21, 2005, 01:12 AM

Body armor of the best kind.

Weapon wise i'd go with the HK G36k or G36c, both offer the 5.56 round with 30 round mags, but are in more compact gunswith a folding stock. Id also carry a HK Mark 23 pistol. Hey price wasn't a factor here.

Crap i just realized the weapons have to be legal. Count my G36k and c out. Then I guess i'd say AR-10A2 (that's .308). I'd wanna give myself a little more power. Hey, It's my gun. I'm staying with the Mark 23 for the pistol though.

Christopher II · May 21, 2005, 05:16 AM

Okay, a couple of things. First, the contract calls specifically for an AR-15 carbine in 5.56mm. No other weapon platform or caliber. Second, as Payne said, the weapons all have to be legal. No NFA stuff.

The story behind this question is two acquaintances of mine are going to Iraq, same circumstances, and they asked me to help them get their gear sorted out.

Thanks,
Chris

Bulldozer · May 21, 2005, 07:52 AM

Armalite, Bushmaster, or Rock River AR-15 clone.

Springfield Armory Operator or Kimber TLE

payne · May 21, 2005, 02:49 PM

Ok, heres my new rifle. I hope this one's acceptable

http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalo...a2_carbine.htm

ssgmac27 · May 21, 2005, 04:43 PM

In addition to the weapon's and body armor, at handheld GPS wouldn't be a bad idea, if the contractor doesn't provide them. In an emergency, grid coordinates could save their lives.

Wraith · May 21, 2005, 04:57 PM

Just make sure it's a 20 incher and get some of those composite metal rounds if you can. Depending on where your buddies plan to be, a holo sight oughta fit the bill.

Seraph · May 21, 2005, 05:43 PM

Basic 20" AR-15, maybe with flat top receiver for optic sights, but with A2 sights as well, and a Springfield Armory Professional M1911A1.

rdebert · May 21, 2005, 06:47 PM

Bushmaster for AR-15. I prefer iron sights (no battery issues). Spare parts for same. As for a 45..a stainles Ruger 97 for absolute reliability (there just isn't that much access to armourers or gunsmiths).

RsqVet · May 22, 2005, 12:21 AM

Hi --

Since you are friends with a few guys heaidng over there a few things to think about...

AR choice --- I'll leave that to those who know better than I, however take an extra set of pins / springs/ small parts. If yours don't break someone elses might.

Handgun --- Take a Glock 21 and 30, extra mags, few extra parts and take down punch. Given the weight, parts interchangability, reliability and mag interchange issues I think Glock has an edge over others. Even if you chose a diffirent pistol as primary having a G30 that can be hidden elsewhere or always on would be a plus.

Body armor --- You don't say what the mission is, however 2 might be a better idea, the most mobile level 3 you can find and then a level 4 for when you are less mobile or a sitting duck. Honestly I don't know what the limits on baggage are in what you mention but there are enough places you can buy lexan or other ballistic sheets that I would look into taking some reasonable sized pices of that as well --- At liest a piece to sit on, one for the door, one for your back and a piece to put on the floor of a vehicle.

I would also take at minimum some extended first aid stuff --- look in the tactical paramedic or military medic manual for recomendations regarding wound dressings, fluids, IV's etc, and there are some things that are outside the supply chanels (Oxyglobin) as well that I would try and get if I could. Learning the basics of how to use this stuff and seeing that others do as well will go a long way --- you don't have to be a medic but a few basic skills and knowlage will go a long way. See fi your locla fire / rescue folks can / will set you up or give a little training / info / practice.

Good fixed blade knife and folder (Chris Reeve would be my pick) +/- leather man and hide away knife.

A small locator becon as well.

Duxman · May 24, 2005, 06:28 PM

My vote would go to an AR180 or Galil 5.56mm. Much more reliable than your standard AR in the desert.

As for a .45? I am not really a fan, but if I must: HK USP in .45

I would mount a sawed off shotgun (if legal) under the AR180 or Galil for "up close and personal...." Just in case.

L3 Body armor with ceramic padding, 2 satelite cell phones, GPS, and a desert survival kit. Dont forget signal flares and Nightvision googles.

ron8903 · May 25, 2005, 07:46 AM

Colt AR-15 H Bar
Sig 220

dojpros · June 1, 2005, 11:35 AM

Bushmaster, Colt or RRA 16 inch flattop, as light a barrel (ie Bushmaster has a superlightweight SP1 configuration that is very nice) as you dare, with an Aimpoint or EO-TECH (aa bat version) mounted on a Larue or some other type of QD zero repeatable mount with a quality BUIS ie GGG, Troy, ARMS etc. Maybe even pack a CQB optic referenced above and a 3.5-10 Leupold (mil dots would be best but not absolutely required given the effective range of 5.56 anyway) on a QD zero repeatable mount as well

Kimber Custom Classic 45/ with Wilson or Chip McCormick Power Mags
or
Glock 21
Make sure you have the mindset to survive.
Make sure all equipment is tested, tested and tested again.

Spotted Owl · June 1, 2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

the weapons all have to be legal. No NFA stuff.

Are you implying that NFA weapons are not legal?

Eghad · June 1, 2005, 01:01 PM

As far as boots go...as soon as I could I had my wife send me a pair of Danners and I ordered a pair of Bellville Tan Jungle Style Boots..chuncked the GI issue ones in the trash.....

also take a suede brush, cleaner, and suede waterproofer...whenever it would sprinkle everybody elses boots would get wet mine would stay dry for a while.

May 20, 2005, 08:49 PM	#1
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	Equipment Selection Scenario Here's how it is - you're going to be leaving for Iraq in six weeks, to do a tour as a technical contractor. Although this is a strictly civilian, non-combat job, you will be required to be armed. The contract requires you to provide one 5.56mm AR-15 carbine, six magazines, and one .45ACP pistol. Ammunition and other consumables will be provided in-theater. Weapon-wise, what would you take? Assume an unlimited budget, but whatever you take, you have to be able to get in 4-6 weeks. Thanks, Chris __________________ "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." – Robert Heinlein "Contrary to popular belief, your vote does not matter, and you cannot make a difference." - Bob Murphy, "Picking Neither of Two Evils" My PGP Public Key

May 20, 2005, 09:12 PM	#2
locked'n'cocked Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2005 Location: MN, USof A Posts: 214	full auto M16, and an SA 1911. and a bullet proof vest. __________________ locked 'n' cocked "Make haste, slowly." Wyatt Earp

May 20, 2005, 11:11 PM	#3
jonathon Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Washougal, Washington. YEHAW! Posts: 1,872	a standard class III vest.. an AKSU-74..... a good pair of danners... Russian LBV... and either a 3" GP-100 or a 3" 686.. I think the danners, the vest, and the sidearm would be the most important part.. gotta protect your feet, and your chest, and most likely, you'll only be defending yourself, not actually fighting(Unless your security..) __________________ Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good More CZ M52 info than you can shake a stick at!

May 21, 2005, 12:08 AM	#4
IZinterrogator Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2004 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 2,457	A Bushmaster or Rock River Arms carbine and a USP45. __________________ "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” - Samuel Adams

May 21, 2005, 01:12 AM	#5
payne Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: SE US Posts: 519	Body armor of the best kind. Weapon wise i'd go with the HK G36k or G36c, both offer the 5.56 round with 30 round mags, but are in more compact gunswith a folding stock. Id also carry a HK Mark 23 pistol. Hey price wasn't a factor here. Crap i just realized the weapons have to be legal. Count my G36k and c out. Then I guess i'd say AR-10A2 (that's .308). I'd wanna give myself a little more power. Hey, It's my gun. I'm staying with the Mark 23 for the pistol though. __________________ If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu

May 21, 2005, 05:16 AM	#6
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	Okay, a couple of things. First, the contract calls specifically for an AR-15 carbine in 5.56mm. No other weapon platform or caliber. Second, as Payne said, the weapons all have to be legal. No NFA stuff. The story behind this question is two acquaintances of mine are going to Iraq, same circumstances, and they asked me to help them get their gear sorted out. Thanks, Chris __________________ "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." – Robert Heinlein "Contrary to popular belief, your vote does not matter, and you cannot make a difference." - Bob Murphy, "Picking Neither of Two Evils" My PGP Public Key

May 21, 2005, 07:52 AM	#7
Bulldozer Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 1999 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 415	Armalite, Bushmaster, or Rock River AR-15 clone. Springfield Armory Operator or Kimber TLE __________________ There are three things in this life that make me smile ear to ear -- Mastiffs, Magnums, and Merlots. Don't try to take any of them from me.

May 21, 2005, 02:49 PM	#8
payne Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: SE US Posts: 519	Ok, heres my new rifle. I hope this one's acceptable http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalo...a2_carbine.htm __________________ If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu

May 21, 2005, 04:43 PM	#9
ssgmac27 Member Join Date: December 24, 2004 Posts: 56	Gps In addition to the weapon's and body armor, at handheld GPS wouldn't be a bad idea, if the contractor doesn't provide them. In an emergency, grid coordinates could save their lives.

May 21, 2005, 04:57 PM	#10
Wraith Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2004 Location: The Free State Posts: 498	Just make sure it's a 20 incher and get some of those composite metal rounds if you can. Depending on where your buddies plan to be, a holo sight oughta fit the bill. __________________ June 23, 2003 GRATZ et al. v. BOLLINGER et al. The day America died. Never Forget 9/11. Cold dead hands...

May 21, 2005, 05:43 PM	#11
Seraph Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Posts: 372	Basic 20" AR-15, maybe with flat top receiver for optic sights, but with A2 sights as well, and a Springfield Armory Professional M1911A1.

May 21, 2005, 06:47 PM	#12
rdebert Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 301	Bushmaster for AR-15. I prefer iron sights (no battery issues). Spare parts for same. As for a 45..a stainles Ruger 97 for absolute reliability (there just isn't that much access to armourers or gunsmiths).

May 22, 2005, 12:21 AM	#13
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 2,474	Hi -- Since you are friends with a few guys heaidng over there a few things to think about... AR choice --- I'll leave that to those who know better than I, however take an extra set of pins / springs/ small parts. If yours don't break someone elses might. Handgun --- Take a Glock 21 and 30, extra mags, few extra parts and take down punch. Given the weight, parts interchangability, reliability and mag interchange issues I think Glock has an edge over others. Even if you chose a diffirent pistol as primary having a G30 that can be hidden elsewhere or always on would be a plus. Body armor --- You don't say what the mission is, however 2 might be a better idea, the most mobile level 3 you can find and then a level 4 for when you are less mobile or a sitting duck. Honestly I don't know what the limits on baggage are in what you mention but there are enough places you can buy lexan or other ballistic sheets that I would look into taking some reasonable sized pices of that as well --- At liest a piece to sit on, one for the door, one for your back and a piece to put on the floor of a vehicle. I would also take at minimum some extended first aid stuff --- look in the tactical paramedic or military medic manual for recomendations regarding wound dressings, fluids, IV's etc, and there are some things that are outside the supply chanels (Oxyglobin) as well that I would try and get if I could. Learning the basics of how to use this stuff and seeing that others do as well will go a long way --- you don't have to be a medic but a few basic skills and knowlage will go a long way. See fi your locla fire / rescue folks can / will set you up or give a little training / info / practice. Good fixed blade knife and folder (Chris Reeve would be my pick) +/- leather man and hide away knife. A small locator becon as well.

May 24, 2005, 06:28 PM	#14
Duxman Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2005 Location: VA Posts: 1,294	My vote would go to an AR180 or Galil 5.56mm. Much more reliable than your standard AR in the desert. As for a .45? I am not really a fan, but if I must: HK USP in .45 I would mount a sawed off shotgun (if legal) under the AR180 or Galil for "up close and personal...." Just in case. L3 Body armor with ceramic padding, 2 satelite cell phones, GPS, and a desert survival kit. Dont forget signal flares and Nightvision googles.

May 25, 2005, 07:46 AM	#15
ron8903 Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Location: south florida Posts: 217	Colt AR-15 H Bar Sig 220 __________________ eyes,ears open. mouth closed

June 1, 2005, 11:35 AM	#16
dojpros Member Join Date: March 15, 2001 Posts: 22	Bushmaster, Colt or RRA 16 inch flattop, as light a barrel (ie Bushmaster has a superlightweight SP1 configuration that is very nice) as you dare, with an Aimpoint or EO-TECH (aa bat version) mounted on a Larue or some other type of QD zero repeatable mount with a quality BUIS ie GGG, Troy, ARMS etc. Maybe even pack a CQB optic referenced above and a 3.5-10 Leupold (mil dots would be best but not absolutely required given the effective range of 5.56 anyway) on a QD zero repeatable mount as well Kimber Custom Classic 45/ with Wilson or Chip McCormick Power Mags or Glock 21 Make sure you have the mindset to survive. Make sure all equipment is tested, tested and tested again.

June 1, 2005, 01:01 PM	#18
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	As far as boots go...as soon as I could I had my wife send me a pair of Danners and I ordered a pair of Bellville Tan Jungle Style Boots..chuncked the GI issue ones in the trash..... also take a suede brush, cleaner, and suede waterproofer...whenever it would sprinkle everybody elses boots would get wet mine would stay dry for a while. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member