Sub gauge Inserts 12 gauge to .22LR

GunChick · December 30, 2011, 12:53 AM

Has anyone tried these adapters if so how accurate? Dave canterbury of Dual Survivor Discovery Channel posted a video of him testing one of these. I will post the link below of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_f7C4ogORs

zippy13 · December 30, 2011, 03:05 PM

Greetings GunChick, and welcome aboard

I think the video tells it all. I suspect the accuracy depends more on your ability with a shotgun's bead sight than the adapter.

olddrum1 · January 2, 2012, 07:10 AM

Actually, I heard that they group pretty tight (3/4 inch groups) at about 26 to 30 inchs out.

FSJeeper · January 2, 2012, 08:57 AM

These inserts have had my interest since a kid. Years ago I bought the .22 inserts for a centerfire revolver cartridge. Total waste of money and total POS waste of time. Good for nothing.

I do not see how a <3" .22 rifled barrel coming out of a 12 gauge barrel with no sights is going to be useful for practical hunting.

I have never bought any of the shotgun adapters but I do remember about 30 years ago or so someone made full length 12 ga. shotgun adapters that actually worked well according to gun mag articles. I think they were 16" long.

All of that said, I wanted a 12 gauge shotgun with the ability to shoot .22lr for my go to emergency bag in the truck. I agree with the guy in the video about the 12 ga. being the most practical 1 gun system in the wild. The solution for me was the combo setup available where you just switch barrels from 12 gauge to .22lr. Those 16" .22 lr inserts probably weigh the same as the handy .22lr rifle with real sights on it so I think this is the optimum setup over inserts.

JASmith · January 2, 2012, 10:34 AM

A lot of the accuracy potential will depend on the consistency of the alignment between the breech and the insert.

It also sounds like the inserts may be intended for slug guns where real sights are frequently found. If so, then the opportunity for inexpensive and comfortable practice is obvious.

Now, having speculated a bit, a question arises -- could one wingshoot with a smoothbore slug gun to good effect? If so, would that add to the flexibility of the 1-gun survival tool? The idea being that the 22 LR for small game, quiet engagements, the slugs for larger game out to 100-150 yards, and birdshot for flying or fast moving game.

10 Beers · January 2, 2012, 11:29 AM

Sounds like a solution in seach of a problem. Either load a shell with one buckshot ball or stick one of these in your belt.

FSJeeper · January 2, 2012, 12:15 PM

Good point JASmith. But the whole issue boils down if these inserts are accurate enough for practical hunting. What would be useful is some real life tests with a slug bore and bird shot, and with the .22 lr inserted and shot for accuracy with slug sights.

My money would be on the 3" inserts not being anywhere in the ballpark for practical hunting use. Maybe those 16" ones they used to sell would be, but not the 3" ones.

The whole insert concept is interesting though.

TheKlawMan · January 2, 2012, 12:47 PM

What about the way spent cartidges are replaced from the .22 insert. You have to remove the insert, push the spent cartidge out with a tool, replace the insert in the chamber, and then reload the next cartrdige. Where has the rabbit or squirrel gone meantime?

B.L.E. · January 2, 2012, 01:10 PM

A short 3 inch barrel can actually shoot with an accuracy that would surprise a lot of people, it's more a matter of chamber slop making the chamber alignment iffy from shot to shot than it is about the short barrel.

Also, a .22 LR out of a 3 inch barrel has about 90% of the velocity of the same round out of a long rifle barrel.

TheKlawMan · January 2, 2012, 01:48 PM

If chamber slop is a problem with a short barrel gun, how does that fit with a chamber insert for a 12 gauge? You have the slop of the cartridge fit in the chamber of the insert added to the slop of the insert's fit into the camber of the 12 gauge?

B.L.E. · January 2, 2012, 02:01 PM

What I meant was the insert's shot to shot alignment in the 12 gauge chamber. A longer insert would have a better chance of consistant insert to barrel alignment.

A pistol shot from a machine rest can shoot groups that would amaze most people.

30-30remchester · January 2, 2012, 05:54 PM

I have collected and shot chamber adapters for 4 decades so I do have some experence. First nearly all my useage has been in rifle calibers. These for the most part as chambered to a pistol round with the same bullet diameter as the original chambering (30-06 x 32 ACP). These work well enough to 25 yards yet sights must be altered. These inserts were very popular @1900 time frame, especially in Canada where private ownership of handguns was forbidden. A hunter could go afield with his big game rifle say a 30-30 and have the ability to take small game as well. During the days of iron sights, it was easy enought to raise the elevator a couple notches and have the sub caliber hit close to point of aim. This allowed old outdoorsmen to spend months afield without resupply. You cant shoot a moose every three days, so this allowed small game aquisition. I still use my adapter when big game hunting, the noise level is far less than a 22 lr and the velocity is supposed to be @200fps faster from a given pistol rounds advertised velocities when shot from a longer rifle barrel. An adapter and 10 small pistol rounds weigh minamally. I have recently purchased some of the Short Lane adapter for my 12 guage and done peliminary testing. The Short Lane adapters need refinement. They are top quality of poor design. First and foremost they are NOT rifled. My 12 guage x 357 will keep all shots inside a 6" circle at 25 yards but 2 out of 5 bullets had keyholed by this time. The same brand adapter for different guages work fine at 15 yards. I hace a 12x20 guage and a 12 x410 adapter. S

30-30remchester · January 2, 2012, 06:02 PM

Sorry, accidentally pushed submit without finishing or spell checking. Anyhow some of the Short Lane adapter are 3" in length and cant easily be used in a standard 2 3/4" pump or autoloader. These problems could easily be corrected by rifling the inserts and offering others in 2 3/4" chamberings. My 12 guage x 22lr adapter is an old brand made of alluminum and is rifled. I think it might have been made by an outfit from Anchorage Alaska. It shoots well enough to carry afield every trip. Lightweight and even without sight it hit inside 3"circle at 25 yards and hits pointof aim at that range without rifle sights. I like the idea of having a handful of 22's when shotgun hunting.

idek · January 3, 2012, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Also, a .22 LR out of a 3 inch barrel has about 90% of the velocity of the same round out of a long rifle barrel.

chronograph results I've seen don't support this statement. I'd say 75% is more in the ballpark.

December 30, 2011, 12:53 AM	#1
GunChick Junior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 1	Sub gauge Inserts 12 gauge to .22LR Has anyone tried these adapters if so how accurate? Dave canterbury of Dual Survivor Discovery Channel posted a video of him testing one of these. I will post the link below of the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_f7C4ogORs

January 2, 2012, 10:34 AM	#5
JASmith Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2009 Posts: 157	A lot of the accuracy potential will depend on the consistency of the alignment between the breech and the insert. It also sounds like the inserts may be intended for slug guns where real sights are frequently found. If so, then the opportunity for inexpensive and comfortable practice is obvious. Now, having speculated a bit, a question arises -- could one wingshoot with a smoothbore slug gun to good effect? If so, would that add to the flexibility of the 1-gun survival tool? The idea being that the 22 LR for small game, quiet engagements, the slugs for larger game out to 100-150 yards, and birdshot for flying or fast moving game. __________________ Nevermore... http://shootersnotes.com

January 2, 2012, 11:29 AM	#6
10 Beers Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2008 Location: Paradise(South Florida) Posts: 343	Sounds like a solution in seach of a problem. Either load a shell with one buckshot ball or stick one of these in your belt. __________________ I got a fever, and the only cure is more guns. Ya wanna go shootin' tomarrow?

December 30, 2011, 03:05 PM	#2
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Greetings GunChick, and welcome aboard I think the video tells it all. I suspect the accuracy depends more on your ability with a shotgun's bead sight than the adapter.

January 2, 2012, 07:10 AM	#3
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	Actually, I heard that they group pretty tight (3/4 inch groups) at about 26 to 30 inchs out.

January 2, 2012, 08:57 AM	#4
FSJeeper Member Join Date: July 21, 2008 Posts: 96	These inserts have had my interest since a kid. Years ago I bought the .22 inserts for a centerfire revolver cartridge. Total waste of money and total POS waste of time. Good for nothing. I do not see how a <3" .22 rifled barrel coming out of a 12 gauge barrel with no sights is going to be useful for practical hunting. I have never bought any of the shotgun adapters but I do remember about 30 years ago or so someone made full length 12 ga. shotgun adapters that actually worked well according to gun mag articles. I think they were 16" long. All of that said, I wanted a 12 gauge shotgun with the ability to shoot .22lr for my go to emergency bag in the truck. I agree with the guy in the video about the 12 ga. being the most practical 1 gun system in the wild. The solution for me was the combo setup available where you just switch barrels from 12 gauge to .22lr. Those 16" .22 lr inserts probably weigh the same as the handy .22lr rifle with real sights on it so I think this is the optimum setup over inserts.

January 2, 2012, 12:15 PM	#7
FSJeeper Member Join Date: July 21, 2008 Posts: 96	Good point JASmith. But the whole issue boils down if these inserts are accurate enough for practical hunting. What would be useful is some real life tests with a slug bore and bird shot, and with the .22 lr inserted and shot for accuracy with slug sights. My money would be on the 3" inserts not being anywhere in the ballpark for practical hunting use. Maybe those 16" ones they used to sell would be, but not the 3" ones. The whole insert concept is interesting though.

January 2, 2012, 12:47 PM	#8
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	What about the way spent cartidges are replaced from the .22 insert. You have to remove the insert, push the spent cartidge out with a tool, replace the insert in the chamber, and then reload the next cartrdige. Where has the rabbit or squirrel gone meantime?

January 2, 2012, 01:10 PM	#9
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	A short 3 inch barrel can actually shoot with an accuracy that would surprise a lot of people, it's more a matter of chamber slop making the chamber alignment iffy from shot to shot than it is about the short barrel. Also, a .22 LR out of a 3 inch barrel has about 90% of the velocity of the same round out of a long rifle barrel.

January 2, 2012, 01:48 PM	#10
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	If chamber slop is a problem with a short barrel gun, how does that fit with a chamber insert for a 12 gauge? You have the slop of the cartridge fit in the chamber of the insert added to the slop of the insert's fit into the camber of the 12 gauge?

January 2, 2012, 02:01 PM	#11
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	What I meant was the insert's shot to shot alignment in the 12 gauge chamber. A longer insert would have a better chance of consistant insert to barrel alignment. A pistol shot from a machine rest can shoot groups that would amaze most people.

January 2, 2012, 05:54 PM	#12
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	I have collected and shot chamber adapters for 4 decades so I do have some experence. First nearly all my useage has been in rifle calibers. These for the most part as chambered to a pistol round with the same bullet diameter as the original chambering (30-06 x 32 ACP). These work well enough to 25 yards yet sights must be altered. These inserts were very popular @1900 time frame, especially in Canada where private ownership of handguns was forbidden. A hunter could go afield with his big game rifle say a 30-30 and have the ability to take small game as well. During the days of iron sights, it was easy enought to raise the elevator a couple notches and have the sub caliber hit close to point of aim. This allowed old outdoorsmen to spend months afield without resupply. You cant shoot a moose every three days, so this allowed small game aquisition. I still use my adapter when big game hunting, the noise level is far less than a 22 lr and the velocity is supposed to be @200fps faster from a given pistol rounds advertised velocities when shot from a longer rifle barrel. An adapter and 10 small pistol rounds weigh minamally. I have recently purchased some of the Short Lane adapter for my 12 guage and done peliminary testing. The Short Lane adapters need refinement. They are top quality of poor design. First and foremost they are NOT rifled. My 12 guage x 357 will keep all shots inside a 6" circle at 25 yards but 2 out of 5 bullets had keyholed by this time. The same brand adapter for different guages work fine at 15 yards. I hace a 12x20 guage and a 12 x410 adapter. S

January 2, 2012, 06:02 PM	#13
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	Sorry, accidentally pushed submit without finishing or spell checking. Anyhow some of the Short Lane adapter are 3" in length and cant easily be used in a standard 2 3/4" pump or autoloader. These problems could easily be corrected by rifling the inserts and offering others in 2 3/4" chamberings. My 12 guage x 22lr adapter is an old brand made of alluminum and is rifled. I think it might have been made by an outfit from Anchorage Alaska. It shoots well enough to carry afield every trip. Lightweight and even without sight it hit inside 3"circle at 25 yards and hits pointof aim at that range without rifle sights. I like the idea of having a handful of 22's when shotgun hunting.