FEG Frommer Stop 7.65?

joyrock · November 22, 2009, 12:13 AM

I just got a `FEG' Fegyergyar Stop made in Budapest in 7.65mm (32acp?). Does any body have one? Fired it? I think the one got was made in 1917. From what I have read it is chambered in 7.65 Frommer? Thats close to the 32ACP? Right?
Can I use new 32acp? Mine looks just like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frommerstop.jpg
Yes, I know it's Wikipedia. Thanks

Onward Allusion · November 22, 2009, 01:37 AM

7.65 (x17mm) Browning = .32 ACP

Tom2 · November 22, 2009, 09:34 AM

Wow, that is like, "I could not see the robber's face, but his gun was ugly!"

joyrock · November 22, 2009, 12:42 PM

Ugly? I thought it was cute.

James K · November 22, 2009, 06:37 PM

Rudolf Frommer was a rather well-known designer of early auto pistols, his first being the Model 1901, first produced in 1903. The later Model 1906 used a detachable magazine and was chambered for the 7.65mm Frommer, a shorter round than the 7.65 Browning (.32 ACP). The 1910 was further modified and used the 7.65 Browning cartridge. The Frommer Stop first appeared in 1912; it and the shorter Frommer Baby were made in both 7.65 Browning and 9mm Browning Short (.380 ACP).

The Stop and Baby are among the very few pistols which use a long recoil operating system. Like the Browning Auto 5 and some Browning-designed rifles, the barrel and breech block are locked together until they reach the rear of the receiver, at which point the barrel is released to go forward, followed by the breechblock, which picks up a fresh round from the magazine as it goes forward into battery. Locking is by a rotating bolt head.

(If anyone wants to see how the Stop works, empty the gun and remove the magazine, then insert a wood dowel or pencil from the muzzle and push back the breechblock.)

The guns can be damaged by trying to disassemble them unless the correct procedure is followed carefully. If Joyrock does not have disassembly instructions I will give them to him. Note that I do NOT recommend disassembly beyond field stripping.

An interesting point in this day of plastic pistols is that the entire Frommer Stop/Baby frame is milled from a solid block of steel. Making something like that today would cost a fortune.

Jim

joyrock · November 23, 2009, 07:30 AM

Thanks Jim! What do you mean `damaged'? I noted that it was made from one block of steel, thought that was neat.

James K · November 23, 2009, 10:22 PM

Many are the ways to ruin a gun trying to disassemble it the wrong way. I saw a Stop that the owner had tried to unscrew the rear part of the bolt, thinking the bolt would then come out the front!

Jim

joyrock · November 24, 2009, 10:07 AM

How did he get to the bolt to unscrew it? You said you have the instructions to disassemble it? I found some the the net, but they where kinda vague, I can get the front spring out by unscrewing the barrel nut. But the spring guide rod must have some kind of tabs or something like that, as far as I can tell. I can't seem to get the rod to come out of the bolt body. If I can get that out, it looks like the bolt then would come out, and the two tabs on the spring guide rod would come out the front, and the barrel then would drop free, right?

James K · November 24, 2009, 09:54 PM

The rear of the bolt where the finger grips are is outside the frame. Apparently he pulled the bolt back and thought the rear part unscrewed. I can't figure out what some folks are thinking or if guys like that think at all.

For disassembly, first the usual - remove magazine and make sure the gun is unloaded.

Then, push in the little nub (barrel nut retainer) at the front above the barrel, and unscrew the barrel nut. The barrel guide (the sort of figure 8) can then be taken out, making sure not to lose the retainer. Pull out the recoil spring.

The barrel guide has a slot in the top. That slot fits over the front end of the recoil spring assembly and allows it to be turned 1/4 turn CCW to unlock the rear from the bolt. Then the bolt and barrel can be removed to the rear. The recoil spring assembly is then turned back 1/4 turn and removed to the front. The recoil spring assembly is a permanent assembly and should not be disassembled. The bolt can be removed from the barrel extension and the bolt head removed from the bolt body. The bolt head can be removed, but further disassembly is not recommend.

When reassembling, insert the bolt into the barrel extension by pushing the bolt head in, then turning the bolt body a bit to the right to insert the bolt body. The barrel/bolt then is inserted into the frame as one unit. Get the barrel past the bolt catch by raising it up in back, moving it forward, then pull the hammer back and slide the barrel and bolt into the receiver. When the bolt stops on the bolt catch, push the barrel forward until the bolt releases.

Now insert the recoil spring guide and lock it into the bolt, using the barrel guide. Insert the recoil spring and put the barrel nut retainer on it. Insert the barrel guide (either way). Keep everything in place and screw on the barrel nut.

Jim

joyrock · December 1, 2009, 11:09 AM

Thanks Jim! got it apart, and found my problem, it was missing the bolt catch. The little thing that keeps the bolt back and the barrel on locks from the bolt. But I found a guy here in town who had one and I installed it. Now it works like a charm! All I need now is some good ammo! Thanks again!

James K · December 1, 2009, 07:24 PM

Happy to have been of help.

Jim

gyvel · December 5, 2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

I just got a `FEG' Fegyergyar Stop made in Budapest in 7.65mm (32acp?). Does any body have one? Fired it? I think the one got was made in 1917. From what I have read it is chambered in 7.65 Frommer? Thats close to the 32ACP? Right?

Didn't you post this same question on another forum? I gave you an answer tthere.

James K · December 5, 2009, 07:22 PM

I think I did too, but the Stop is chambered for the 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP) not the 7.65 Frommer.

Jim

gyvel · December 6, 2009, 11:36 AM

Yep, they did post on another forum. The 1910 model used a slightly different cartridge than the 1912. I think (but I'm not 100% sure) it was the same as the 7.65mm Roth-Sauer. (I'll have to check.)

James K · December 6, 2009, 10:46 PM

The Frommer 1910 did use the 7.65mm Browning; the earlier Model 1906 used the shorter 7.65mm Frommer (case length .510") and the Model 1901 used the 8mm Roth. But the previous Frommer models were totally different guns from the Stop and Baby, resembling the Krnka-Roth externally. Only the Stop and Baby were made in significant numbers; the previous guns are extremely rare. I have seen one 1910, but have never seen a 1901 or 1906.

Jim

gyvel · December 7, 2009, 04:36 AM

Ditto Jim. I've only seen one 1901 "in the flesh" and only pics of the others.

joyrock · December 7, 2009, 07:12 PM

Thanks for all your help!
Now my quest to find a `Baby' and or a `Liliput'!

James K · December 8, 2009, 07:15 PM

The Frommer "Baby" is fairly common (mine is in .380) but the Liliput pistols are right rare. Good luck in the hunt!

Jim

November 22, 2009, 12:13 AM	#1
joyrock Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 153	FEG Frommer Stop 7.65? I just got a `FEG' Fegyergyar Stop made in Budapest in 7.65mm (32acp?). Does any body have one? Fired it? I think the one got was made in 1917. From what I have read it is chambered in 7.65 Frommer? Thats close to the 32ACP? Right? Can I use new 32acp? Mine looks just like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frommerstop.jpg Yes, I know it's Wikipedia. Thanks __________________ Oleg Volk is my hero! Last edited by joyrock; November 22, 2009 at 09:08 AM.

November 22, 2009, 09:34 AM	#3
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Wow, that is like, "I could not see the robber's face, but his gun was ugly!" __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

November 22, 2009, 12:42 PM	#4
joyrock Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 153	Ugly? I thought it was cute. __________________ Oleg Volk is my hero!

November 23, 2009, 07:30 AM	#6
joyrock Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 153	Thanks Jim! What do you mean `damaged'? I noted that it was made from one block of steel, thought that was neat. __________________ Oleg Volk is my hero!

November 24, 2009, 10:07 AM	#8
joyrock Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 153	How did he get to the bolt to unscrew it? You said you have the instructions to disassemble it? I found some the the net, but they where kinda vague, I can get the front spring out by unscrewing the barrel nut. But the spring guide rod must have some kind of tabs or something like that, as far as I can tell. I can't seem to get the rod to come out of the bolt body. If I can get that out, it looks like the bolt then would come out, and the two tabs on the spring guide rod would come out the front, and the barrel then would drop free, right? __________________ Oleg Volk is my hero!

November 22, 2009, 01:37 AM	#2
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	7.65 (x17mm) Browning = .32 ACP

November 22, 2009, 06:37 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Rudolf Frommer was a rather well-known designer of early auto pistols, his first being the Model 1901, first produced in 1903. The later Model 1906 used a detachable magazine and was chambered for the 7.65mm Frommer, a shorter round than the 7.65 Browning (.32 ACP). The 1910 was further modified and used the 7.65 Browning cartridge. The Frommer Stop first appeared in 1912; it and the shorter Frommer Baby were made in both 7.65 Browning and 9mm Browning Short (.380 ACP). The Stop and Baby are among the very few pistols which use a long recoil operating system. Like the Browning Auto 5 and some Browning-designed rifles, the barrel and breech block are locked together until they reach the rear of the receiver, at which point the barrel is released to go forward, followed by the breechblock, which picks up a fresh round from the magazine as it goes forward into battery. Locking is by a rotating bolt head. (If anyone wants to see how the Stop works, empty the gun and remove the magazine, then insert a wood dowel or pencil from the muzzle and push back the breechblock.) The guns can be damaged by trying to disassemble them unless the correct procedure is followed carefully. If Joyrock does not have disassembly instructions I will give them to him. Note that I do NOT recommend disassembly beyond field stripping. An interesting point in this day of plastic pistols is that the entire Frommer Stop/Baby frame is milled from a solid block of steel. Making something like that today would cost a fortune. Jim

November 23, 2009, 10:22 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Many are the ways to ruin a gun trying to disassemble it the wrong way. I saw a Stop that the owner had tried to unscrew the rear part of the bolt, thinking the bolt would then come out the front! Jim

November 24, 2009, 09:54 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The rear of the bolt where the finger grips are is outside the frame. Apparently he pulled the bolt back and thought the rear part unscrewed. I can't figure out what some folks are thinking or if guys like that think at all. For disassembly, first the usual - remove magazine and make sure the gun is unloaded. Then, push in the little nub (barrel nut retainer) at the front above the barrel, and unscrew the barrel nut. The barrel guide (the sort of figure 8) can then be taken out, making sure not to lose the retainer. Pull out the recoil spring. The barrel guide has a slot in the top. That slot fits over the front end of the recoil spring assembly and allows it to be turned 1/4 turn CCW to unlock the rear from the bolt. Then the bolt and barrel can be removed to the rear. The recoil spring assembly is then turned back 1/4 turn and removed to the front. The recoil spring assembly is a permanent assembly and should not be disassembled. The bolt can be removed from the barrel extension and the bolt head removed from the bolt body. The bolt head can be removed, but further disassembly is not recommend. When reassembling, insert the bolt into the barrel extension by pushing the bolt head in, then turning the bolt body a bit to the right to insert the bolt body. The barrel/bolt then is inserted into the frame as one unit. Get the barrel past the bolt catch by raising it up in back, moving it forward, then pull the hammer back and slide the barrel and bolt into the receiver. When the bolt stops on the bolt catch, push the barrel forward until the bolt releases. Now insert the recoil spring guide and lock it into the bolt, using the barrel guide. Insert the recoil spring and put the barrel nut retainer on it. Insert the barrel guide (either way). Keep everything in place and screw on the barrel nut. Jim

December 1, 2009, 11:09 AM	#10
joyrock Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 153	Thanks Jim! got it apart, and found my problem, it was missing the bolt catch. The little thing that keeps the bolt back and the barrel on locks from the bolt. But I found a guy here in town who had one and I installed it. Now it works like a charm! All I need now is some good ammo! Thanks again! __________________ Oleg Volk is my hero!

December 1, 2009, 07:24 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Happy to have been of help. Jim

December 5, 2009, 07:22 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I think I did too, but the Stop is chambered for the 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP) not the 7.65 Frommer. Jim

December 6, 2009, 11:36 AM	#14
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Yep, they did post on another forum. The 1910 model used a slightly different cartridge than the 1912. I think (but I'm not 100% sure) it was the same as the 7.65mm Roth-Sauer. (I'll have to check.)

December 6, 2009, 10:46 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Frommer 1910 did use the 7.65mm Browning; the earlier Model 1906 used the shorter 7.65mm Frommer (case length .510") and the Model 1901 used the 8mm Roth. But the previous Frommer models were totally different guns from the Stop and Baby, resembling the Krnka-Roth externally. Only the Stop and Baby were made in significant numbers; the previous guns are extremely rare. I have seen one 1910, but have never seen a 1901 or 1906. Jim

December 7, 2009, 04:36 AM	#16
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Ditto Jim. I've only seen one 1901 "in the flesh" and only pics of the others.

December 7, 2009, 07:12 PM	#17
joyrock Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 153	Thanks for all your help! Now my quest to find a `Baby' and or a `Liliput'! __________________ Oleg Volk is my hero!

December 8, 2009, 07:15 PM	#18
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Frommer "Baby" is fairly common (mine is in .380) but the Liliput pistols are right rare. Good luck in the hunt! Jim