September 3, 2010, 09:30 PM | #576 |
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I found some 4bore plastic cases, 4 inches long, red colored, looking like an oversize 12ga Activ case, They are all plastic without a steel insert in the base like Activ cases have. No markings.
I understand they are Fiocchi. They are the size for the 4bores that are about .950 inch bore. They are suitable for shot loads of moderate pressures. Guys loading them say they stretch out after a few loads. And they use about 3 oz shot. I will test them with a light buckshot loads of nine 45cal buckshot, 140 grains each. Total 1260gr, a little less than three ounces. In picture are plastic cases with brass ones and 3.3" 8ga. The base of case will be shimmed with strong wide tape to fit our chamber, cutting down on the stretching. Ed
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September 11, 2010, 10:23 PM | #577 |
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When I made the 16ga FH, shown earlier in this thread,
I had couple bmg cases that were partly worked down, and not yet expanded to 16ga mouth size. With a rim on it bigger than the base which was .770". Well, I've had guys ask if I would ever have bottlenecked cartridge. This led me to a way to do one. I made rim .770, left shoulder diameter, swage case sides straight, and expanded neck for 585" size. Cut the case to 3.7" length, and we have the 585 Hubel Super Magnum. This will be my only bottle necked wildcat. I can make the mag box on the MRC PH long to feed case..Good for over 16,000 ft lbs,Regular 12-14,000 ft lbs. Will that put trex in small letters.....Pictured with 505 Gibbs to which it has nearly identical larger shape and good side taper for easy extraction, with heavy loads.And I can make cases like I do with my 700HE.Case hold 250gr ball powder under bullet. It'll work in FBW model LED
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September 17, 2010, 12:23 AM | #578 |
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Shot 4 ga plastic case with 7- 140 gr balls, 980gr total
1800 fps. Used duplex load- Blue Dot 100gr, - Re17 150gr. A card and couple nitro wads under load and card over, glue gunned the card in. Shot loadedin two rows of 3 and 7th on bottom in recess in the middle of top wad. Red plastic case ok some expansion. Just about the limit for an all plastic case. Here is picture 0f 585HSM and some other cases. Gonna test a few in trusty ole Enfield I shot the 700H 3.25 in with extra rear lugs. Change barrel lengthen port.It won't do maximum real hotrod loads like when I put it in PH later, but it'll outrun trex.2nd pic... ED
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ED HUBEL |
October 5, 2010, 08:55 AM | #579 |
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In the 4ga plastic case a 760 gr ball at 2000 fps
extracted ok. 3oz #2 shot load at 1500 ok. More 8ga stuff, fired a 2 ball, 820gr load at 1600 with all the RE17 it had room for. We fired 1300 gr cast full bore 8ga hard slug at 1700. Found a guy who can do them. Here is picture of his 10 and 8ga cast fullbore hard slugs. 2nd picture is the 585 HSM case sectioned with a competition case showing how strong brass is.Ed
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October 9, 2010, 09:22 AM | #580 |
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The 4ga all plastic case good for 4 of my magnum
pressure loads, with our slower powders,before it is expanded to much. Compared to the brass cases, at 50% more pressure, I've fired one 6 times and sized, and fired it 4 more.ED
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October 15, 2010, 09:26 AM | #581 |
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We found some 585 hardcast, sized and lubed bullets.
Works ok in my 585s at high speed. Shown in picture. We showed 10ga slugs above, Another easy to do 10ga slug load is the 10ga wadcups for lead BPI has, with a 69cal swaged lead bullet in it that Dixie sells. It is hollowbased and 750gr.Also use the same wadcup for buckshot. Some are showing interest in 10ga due to NEF making them with heavy bull barrels. Another experimenter has got a bunch of RMC 3.5" brass 10ga cases, and will load and test the fullbore 10ga slugs shown above. RMC can do them about any time you want.Ed
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October 25, 2010, 09:45 AM | #582 |
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Here is picture of the 3.5" 20ga brass case in
FBW falling block. Nice cases by RMC.Shotgun primer. Using 395 gr sabot get over 2700 fps. 600gr over 2200. Cases take many reloads with minimum sizing. One fired 8 times, still good and the slower powders get the velocity without the hard shock to cases, compared to fast shotgun powders. And the hotrod Hastings factory loads work in the gun also. Guy got new design 8 and 10 ga slugs with bigger hollow in the base. 1100gr for 8 and 900gr for 10. More accurate in smooth bores. Will let everyone know when he is ready to make a few for shooters.Ed
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October 25, 2010, 05:12 PM | #583 |
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i would PAY to see a ballistics-gelatin test with that round i vote HUBEL458 for the Nobel Prize
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November 4, 2010, 02:19 AM | #584 |
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I probably would vaporize gel block, like
it did that 6gal pail of water, with fast 12ga. I like singleshot break actions. I found another brand that will work to make heavy barrel 12 and 20 ga FH. By monoblocking in heavy barrels. It is the CBC Model SB. It has stock mounted like more expensive doubles and O/U. And nice shaped pistol grip stock. They have the nice stylish look like the Win 37 and Stevens 94. But they are heavier built, just need heavy barrel. I going to do a couple by monoblocking in heavy barrels, one 20ga and one my 585 HE like I did in the NEF.And they are 50 to 100 bucks. That action is a 1/8 inch wider than NEF, has big breach diameter like NEF 10/12 gauges. The bearing surfaces on the pivot is .300" wider, and pivot block is 1/4" wider. Pivot pin is 1/10" bigger. The action is a 1/2 inch taller, and extra diameter at breach end. In fact you could build a real hairy 8ga on its wider action, with a heavy barrel and a new pivot block welded on.Ed
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November 6, 2010, 09:42 PM | #585 |
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More info on doing 20ga 3.5" in break actions. Nice
to do them in falling blocks, but they aren't available for decent price. One choice, heavy barrel NEF 20ga, lengthen chamber, but barrels are too short for proper burning of large loads. Longer barrel better and helps with recoil. And in a break action looks better to me. Brass cases from RMC 7 bucks, decent price compared to 600NE brass at twice that. Many guys want 20s along with the bigger. So you put a heavy barrel in a gun like the CBC which is low cost and put extra toward the barrel. Which is why I started research after getting a CBC, as it is about perfect for the 20ga added heavy barrel. Or in NEF, a little more. Or other singles, if heavy enough. And you still fire factory 3-3.5" slug loads. And 3.5" brass 20ga will do same as 600NE factory loads, in a gun at 1/20 the price. That is reason we are looking at monoblocking 20ga barrels to make heavy strong guns, that can get great velocities, less cost.. Like 600gr to 2200 or more. Added heavy barrels in right actions will hold all the pressure the RMC brass operates at. And remember one experimenter has 20ga kills at 160 and 230 yds on deer.ED
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November 12, 2010, 12:42 AM | #586 |
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More info on 10 and 8 gauge slugs. The guy got some
made with deep hollowbase, 10ga 900gr, 8ga 1100gr. He will make them for a buck each. Bob Bigando in AZ. (bobiano at yahoo.com) Good price as they are nice hard shiny slugs. For seals for 10 and 8 gauge you can get regular card seals and nitro fiber wads, but plastic seals will do better, about a 100 fps in the faster loads. Plastic seals for 10 ga are at BPI, called - X10X. For 8ga I cut bottom seal part off of the 8ga wadcup that BPI has. For extended accuracy in smooth bores you can screw the seals on to the slugs and that will make the overall projectile more front heavy. Use these in loads with slower RE17 that fills case so no fiber wads are need.Just seal and slug.ED
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November 28, 2010, 10:27 PM | #587 |
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I talked about these 12ga jacketed full bore slugs earlier,
shown below. Well now BPI has something similiar in their new catalog. We have tested some and one gets a 3 shot group that is nearly touching at 50 yds in a scoped NEF Ultra slug gun. They can go real fast in our 3.5 RMC or our real long case.They are hollowpoint and fairly streamlined.I fill them with plastic glue for better streamlining.Fullbore and no sabots needed. Relatively light weight, to lessen recoil.Ed
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November 29, 2010, 09:54 AM | #588 |
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nice !! very impressieve
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November 29, 2010, 08:59 PM | #589 |
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you could mix a drink in those damn things.... drool
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December 16, 2010, 01:28 AM | #590 |
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The 12ga Brenekke slugs with locked on base and the USS-S
slugs I test have led to other combinations that I've put together using different slugs and wads. The object is 60 yd accurate, economical slugs for reloading smoothbores that in the reloading process we can get more power also. Like the Lyman cast slugs in thickwall 10ga steel wads, with the slug glued in and wad cut off even with top of slug. Then with wad cut even, you load and can rollcrimp perfect. It makes a real nose heavy combination that is as accurate in smoothbores, as the expensive 10ga foster style slugs. Another one is the hollowbase 577 soft lead slugs that Dixie sells, I put in a thickwall 16ga wad that BPI has. I glue it in using Goop, a thick glue that hardwares sell. Epoxy works. Another one is 20ga ga thickwall wad with 54 cal hollowbase soft lead slugs. All these and others can be loaded for a fifth of factory for smoothbores, and be as accurate as foster slugs. And our slow powder loads seal good with wadcups. Representative one in middlle, 10ga.Slug glued in tight.Ed
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December 27, 2010, 02:59 AM | #591 |
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Some wonder if only trying for foster slug accuracy at 200 feet
or 60-70 yds wasn't the best goal in a smooth bore, But if you get it at 20% of the cost you've made a big gain. And most deer here are killed at 30 yards. And putting slugs inside of thickwall wadcups, with corresponding nitro wads under slug to get slug to the front of cup, slug glued in, makes them long and a little more accurate than foster slugs. Reason is the forcing cone in smoothbores. With the long nose, heavy combination of wadcup/slug, the back of the wadcup is in case yet while the front gets into the bore, past the forcing cone, for a straight start. Little better accuracy. Like the accurate US-S smoothbore locked on base slug, that is long. The longer the nose heavy slug/sabot combo is, the truer it flies. And most of these combinations work in brass cases with thick walls like RMC cases. They fit real tight for my cases. Ed
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January 11, 2011, 08:22 PM | #592 |
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Penetration with slugs-Had a bunch of
wood blocks up to 12" through. 20ga load is a 54 cal 410 gr slug glued in wadcup. Gives the same effect as Brenekke with locked on base.. Good in smoothbore at 50 yds.Goes through 6" block of wood easy/ Buckshot load in 4bore, 9 140gr 45cal balls at 1800, all zip through 3/4" OSB and keep going. In 4bore 760gr steel ball zips through 12" block of wood. going over 3200 fps. Wood is dried hard poplar. In 10ga 3.5" plastic case, a 900gr hardcast slug at 1800 fps, through same kind of block easy. This slug I put on a screwed on base with plastic seal and wad. I've also put plastic seals and fiber wads on 8ga slugs to test later.. 12ga 600gr hard slug at 2100 zips through 12" wood block like it was putty.In a 3.5" RMC case in NEF. Anyone wanting one of my loaded 585HSMs to collect or look at, let me know. 750gr slug in this at 2800 in Enfield test gun. Soon have barrel in PH and put the real speed to it. About 33-3400. Will soon have the heavy 20 ga barrel mono-blocked into the 12ga barrel setup on the CBC break action. Make a nice looking gun. Also going to put the 8ga heavy barrel I had in Enfield for testing into falling block built like the 4 bore one.Maybe done by summer. Will be in one piece stock like 4bore.Ed
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January 11, 2011, 10:21 PM | #593 |
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Man, you are non-stop action. Noting better than what you are doing as far as I am concerned. Keep up the posts, I need the inspiration.
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January 11, 2011, 10:39 PM | #594 |
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Man those guns are awesome. Thanks for posting all the pics and experiences. Really thinking outside the box. I mean 760 grain bullets going around 3000 fps? Freaking awesome firepower.
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January 15, 2011, 04:00 PM | #595 |
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Anyone wanting one of my loaded 585HSMs to
Sir,
I would be interested in one of your 585 HSM's for collecting purposes. Please let me know the details. Cool! Sincerely, C-
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January 16, 2011, 12:00 AM | #596 |
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Finding real slow powders that works with shotgun primers,
without starter powder. We found RE-17 and surplus 7383. To recap faster rifle powders we use -VV110,IMR 4759,4227.. On the thread we've written about real slow powders like H-BMG we've used with a starter powder, IE 15gr of Blue dot, and H-BMG in amounts from 150 gr to 230gr in 3.5 and 3.85 inch brass cases. And 3.5 " plastic cases. 860-1040 gr slugs. Tested in NEF with long heavy barrel. We finally got some RE-50,a really slow powder like H-BMG. It works with a real magnum shotgun primer with heavy slugs, 860 gr on up, in 3.5" RMC brass, 3.5" plastic and our long brass case. I used 239 Fed primers. Lighter slugs only give squib loads.RE-50 Is a powder made like RE-17 with the deterrant all through the grain of the powder, rather than all on the surface of the grains, so it will ignite easier, to get the initial combustion started. In brass case used 240gr with 860gr slug, 1950 fps and 220gr with 1040gr slug, 1750. In 3.5" plastic 860gr slug with 180gr RE-50, 1500 plus. Now these velocities aren't earth shattering as powder is real slow, but cases don't expand, not even plastic case base cup. And no starter powder. Nice thing is just fill cases leaving room for slug and seal and no worries about to high of peak pressures with the heavy slugs or cases expanding to stick. Now to get 239 primers get Fed 12ga long red 3.5" primed cases from BPI. I used Fed cases,and took out primers and used in other plastic and the brass cases. Got a big shop trying to free up 239 primers for us reloaders. Federal puts them in 3.5" mag 12ga loads and 10ga cases. Elsewhere it was reported someone may do a 16ga sabot. Also a guy got huge antlered buck with hotrod 20ga. Ed
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January 16, 2011, 04:45 AM | #597 |
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Ed,
Have you tried the CCI 209M magnum shotshell primers? Also the 209 type primers made for inline black powder rifles have quite a bit higher brissance than standard 209 shotshell primers. (Federal Fusion 209 Muzzleloading primers, Winchester Triple Seven primers and Remington Black Powder primers) Since they are designed for black powder and/or the harder to ignite substitutes, they should have no problem igniting your large charges of slowburning smokless. Seems to me that they would be both easier to acquire and safer to use than recycled Federal 239 3.5" primers. I have also noticed that the Fiocchi 209 primers seem to be stronger than other standard primers.
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January 17, 2011, 04:25 AM | #598 |
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Thanks for info.
I'll check out the MZ inline primers as soon as I get some. Now black powder is harder to ignite than fast shotgun powders, but easier than real slow rifle powders The CCI 209Ms are not as strong as Fed 239s and taking out 239s is no problem with blunt pin that pushes on the battery cup. They come out just as good as new. Using RE-50 in 20 gauge, and 600 NE cases, and smaller, the diameter of powder charge is small enough that any primer will work. In my test of Regular # 216 Fiocchi primers and they weren't any stronger than CCI 209M. Fiocchi is supposed to have a #217 that is stronger but I can't get any to test yet. I have tried the absolute strongest shotgun primer, the Win and REM 8ga kiln case primers, and they still won't ignite H-BMG and other real slow rifle powders.But buying 8ga cases to get them is expensive. Thr RE50 slow powder only works because its deterrantapplication is different than all other rifle powders except RE17.ED
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ED HUBEL Last edited by HUBEL458; January 17, 2011 at 04:30 AM. |
January 20, 2011, 01:35 AM | #599 |
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I have a way to compare primers without powder and slugs,
for a lot of my experimenting. I use a short 24"barrel 10ga. The barrel being shorter I can see the sparks and flame. I fire off the primers in case with no powder/slugs. I have just tested to see if magnum FED Fusion and Triple 7 inline muzzleloading primers were as strong as FED 239. Just the two brands to test in the 10ga to compare flame, sparks and bang, and they were not as good as the 209 Remington STS ones I like. They only put a few sparks out of the barrel.The REM 209 STS and Fed 209 M had 3" fire out the barrel and the Fed 239 had about 5-6" out the barrel. And 8ga Rem and Win kiln case hotrod primers 8" plus.... Previous post I mention trying to start H-BMG slow powder with 8ga kiln primers without success. Which is why we figured out using a starter powder like 15gr Blue Dot. Then it works great with any shotgun primer. Guys here when they see misfires with shotgun primers and H-BMG only, and the see starter powder loads go off in our big 12ga case like a tank cannon, they are flabbergasted at the difference.ED
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February 9, 2011, 01:41 AM | #600 |
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I mentioned in the threads earlier a 16GA FH case
I made from bmg brass. Then I put it in a 16ga Stevens 94 break action by lengthening chamber for the 3.5" case. I kept speed and pressures down as the regular barrel on the gun had a thin muzzle. Now I found a thick heavy 16ga 32" alloy tube and I had extra Enfield test action, with the port opened for longer cases. I turned it 1.1" at the muzzle. Nice and heavy. It does a 630gr 16ga 'Greg S' slug 2400 and 385 gr Lightfield 16ga slug to 3000, without the bottom 2/3 of the case having to be resized. With RE-17. I have these cases setup for shotgun primers.The Lightfield has it own seal on the locked on base and for the 630 gr use a BPGS and Flexseal over powder.. Ed
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