Spare mags - a rational discussion

[DiscoRacing]

i carry two S&W .40s...and four extra mags most of the time.... not sure why...

[MLeake]

... I'd be the big idiot kid wrestling with most of them, so I probably would have my weapons locked up. For some reason, I'm that guy that kids like to jump on screaming "spin me! spin me!" and that dogs all just somehow know will scratch their ears.

Get the feeling you may have been joking on that last one.

[ranburr]

Extra ammo is never a bad thing. The weakest point of any pistol platform is the magazine. Therefore, you would be stupid not to carry at least one spare magazine, (regardless of capacity).

[Wildalaska]

Therefore, you would be stupid not to carry at least one spare magazine, (regardless of capacity).

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah snifsobsob

You called me stoopid

WildicarryonemagAlaska TM

[raftman]

I certainly wouldn't say you'd be stupid not to carry a spare mag. From a statistical standpoint, the odds are very much against you ever actually needing it, unless you live in seriously bad area or something. You'd be pretty hard pressed to find a civilian self-defense situation (let's not get into military-style combat scenarios) in which someone lost a gunfight because of a malfunction attributed to the magazine.

[pax]

And there we go.

Just one time, I'd love to see one of these threads with a complete lack of any of the following accusations about the people on the other side:

• "paranoid"
  
• "sheep"
  
• "stupid"
  
• "living in denial"
  
• "living in fear"
  
• "Rambo wanna-be"
  
• "unprepared"

Can it be done? Based on available evidence, this old cynic doubts it...

The next post along those lines gets the thread closed -- and the member who posts it gets a demerit. Think twice, post once.

pax

[MLeake]

... and I've had to drop a magazine at the range in order to clear a stoppage with a 1911. This happened a time or two - enough to convince me not to carry that 1911 as a CCW - and statistically was an anomaly. My other semi's haven't had that happen, so far.

However, if they ever do, I'll have the spare mag.

The flip side of this argument is, what would I gain by NOT carrying the spare mag?

Pocket space? That's why I have magazine holders for my belt. Or cargo shorts and cargo pants.

So, I've been trained that it's prudent to carry a spare mag with a semi-auto, and I don't see any real gain from not carrying the spare mag, ergo why would I not carry the spare?

[Wildalaska]

Can it be done?

Bet I could do them all in one sentence that makes sense

The flip side of this argument is, what would I gain by NOT carrying the spare mag?

I sometmes have to argue with myself just to carry at all

WildicantacticallypukeAlaska TM

[Skan21]

I only carry one mag. 19 rounds is plenty. Or 19+1. What I carry depends on where I'm going. If I'm going somewhere I think may be sketchy, I carry the XD(M). That way I've got lots of lead. Mostly it's been the Springfield 1911. 8+1 is fine for most instances, IMO.

[Kyo]

hi pax. relax your being "paranoid" lol. just kidding.

anyway, Mleake, I can bat for the other side on your argument. carrying an extra mag, or extra speed loader, takes up more space. How much more space? Well, a double stack would be easier to see in pants. I keep my extra mag in the back pocket, and it can float around sometimes. it really depends on what clothes you wear. if you are a girl, a purse might be ok. A guy like me who wears jeans, its not a problem.
I don't keep it in my front pockets because my wallet/keys/phone are in those pockets. I mess with those about a million times a day, so a mag there is not the best. Back pocket it is. What if you have a business suit and don't have back pockets? You gonna put it in your sock and cover it with your pants? In your waistline maybe? No idea. But sometimes, I can see why you don't want an extra mag.

[MLeake]

but rather on having a second magazine, since magazine failures will really ruin your day with a pistol, especially if you don't have a spare.

I'm happy with a pair of 8 rounders, and in fact from time to time will carry a 6 and a 7 when my PM9 arrives. Either of those loadouts would be less in round count than the load in Skan21's one mag. However, if his magazine has an issue after one or two rounds fired, with no spare magazine, then he'd be in a worse position than I would be given the same problem, since I'd have a spare mag available.

Again, what is the gain in NOT carrying a spare magazine? Plenty of people have said why they feel it is unnecessary, but nobody has really indicated what they think the plus side is to not carrying a spare magazine. ("I don't think it's necessary" isn't the same as "you would gain x if you did not do that.")

[pax]

Kyo ~

Never use a mag pouch? Why not?

I guess I could see the difficulty if you carried in a pocket. But most of us carry on the belt. And if the belt is already in place, a mag pouch is an easy addition.

pax

[Kyo]

ahh glad you asked me. I don't like to use mag carriers on the belt because they actually print more then the gun. I carry the gun IWB, the mag holder I have has a place for 2 mags and clips into the belt, but only for OWB. If I open carry I still just keep it in the pocket.

[MLeake]

... thanks for actually addressing the question.

For me, if I'm carrying a double-stack, it means I either have a loose outer shirt or a jacket, depending on the weather. I'm probably carrying OWB, because I don't really like double-stack IWB. If that's the case, and I want to preserve pocket space, I have magazine holders made by Galco and SimplyRugged that I can just snap over my belt on the opposite side from the pistol. The same outer shirt or jacket that covers the pistol on my right does a great job of concealing the magazine on my left. Or, if I have plenty of pocket space available (I really prefer cargo pants and shorts, if only because I hate having a wallet in a hip pocket when driving or otherwise seated, it just annoys me, so thigh cargo pockets are wonderful things for me) then I just toss the spare mag in either the front left or left cargo pocket, depending on where it flops around less.

If using my shoulder rig, it has a dual magazine pouch setup opposite the pistol, to act as both spare location and counterweight to the pistol. If the holster is concealed, so are the spare magazines.

The only time I'd really have to worry about the pocket space, or the possible annoyance of the mag banging around on me, would be shorts and t-shirt or tank mode. However, a pistol suitable for that mode tends to be a smaller, single-stack type, and the magazines aren't as bulky or heavy in the pocket, and don't bang around so much against my thigh.

On an odd note, the biggest problem I have on a board shorts day is where to stick the ubiquitous folding knife. Those days, it tends to be my smaller folder, tucked into the waistband of the shorts on strong side, with a pistol in the right cargo. On those days, keys, cell phone, wallet, and any loose change end up in the left pocket, so a spare mag becomes pretty unlikely.

So, for me at least, aside from outdoor play activities there's almost never a real gain to not carrying the spare. I can see where this would be more of a problem for a slimmer person, or one who prefers wranglers or similar jeans.

[pax]

Kyo ~

That makes sense.

I have an IWB tuckable mag pouch from Ted Blocker Holsters that works well. No printing.

pax

[doc2rn]

Until I find a nice leather rig with dual mag pouch like a shoulder rig I just obey the first law and bring a gun. I hit what I aim at, and I have 9 lawyers in my weapon.

[Kyo]

sweet i been lookin for IWB ammo pouches. It would be nice to have one of those
mleake- I carry on a simplyrugged Cuda holster and belt. I <3 them. most comfortable holster I have found while doing everything from laying around to driving.
pax thanx for the ted blocker link im gonna pick up a concealment mag holder

this mainly comes down to convenience. obviously, if it was so we would all carry as much as we could afford in guns, and ammo. reality sets in, and I am willing to give up some comfort for safety, just not all of it. Thats why I have a leather holster instead of crap, and a gun belt instead of crap as well. I learned real quick that if its that much of a drag to carry you wont. But I do it comfortably to my threshold. My threshold would be 1 mag in the pocket. 2 is too many because there is no where for them to go when I sit down. As i sit with 1, I can move it to the side and be fine.

[Skan21]

I see where you're going Mleake, about the mag malfunctions. But I've never had a malfunction with any of my pistols. I also use good magazines ( Mec Gar or Wilson) which absolutely doesn't rule out malfunctions, but cuts down on the risk substantially. If I carried a low quality pistol, with low quality mags, I might have a different opinion. If I carry, I carry the most reliable, or best that I can afford. My life is worth more to me than the $1000 I spend on my carry gear. Plus, I shoot my carry mags regularly, but I never drop them out of the pistol onto the ground. I take care of them, and clean them regularly. My range mags are marked with red tape on the bottom, and I beat the living crap out of them.

[Dannyl]

Hi,

I kit up according to where I am going.

Most of the time it is my S&W 4006 (11+1) with one spare mag either in my pocket or in my laptop bag (which either is on my back or next to me)

In my car I keep one more spare mag and a box of 20 Rounds ( always, it takes little space and it is always there, right next to the first aid kit and the extinguisher)

In some instances I may do away with the spare mag and carry only the gun
( mainly in places that are very secure to start with) and on the other hand, there are instances where I will have my carry gun with 2 spare mags, and a back-up gun with spare mags for it. (Like when I am part of the guard at a synagogue in a religious holiday and the chances that I may have to fend off an attack are much higher)

So my answer if one asks, is to kit up for the circumstances.

Brgds,

Danny

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by MLeake

....I have two reasons I consider rational for combining a reasonably high-cap pistol with a spare.

1) While muggers may often act solo, the trend in Atlanta (where I reside, though in the outskirts) and Orlando (where my parents reside, or in the outskirts) area robberies has been young males, in groups of 2 or 3. While I'm a very good shot, I don't expect any bullet to be a magic bullet, and I'd like to at least have a chance at 3 double-taps prior to a reload.

2) Standard stoppage drills, if tap/rack/pull doesn't fix the issue, often go next to dropping the magazine and trying a new one. Just because the first magazine is high-capacity, doesn't mean it will work....

FWIW, I agree completely.

I carry whenever I legally can, and most of the time I carry, it's a 1911 or an H&K P7M8. And I always carry at least one extra magazine. Probably won't need it, but then again, I probably won't need the gun in the first place. But if I'm already carrying almost 3 pounds of loaded gun, what's an extra magazine or two? Magazines, especially single stack magazines, are easy to carry. It's the gun that's hard to carry.

And if one really paid attention to the odds, one wouldn't even bother carrying the gun in the first place. Most people in Western Civilization will die quietly in their beds without ever having had to defend themselves in a violent encounter. But the thing is that rare things do happen.

So okay, one is unlikely to need an extra magazine (or a gun for that matter). But the upside of not carrying an extra magazine is pretty modest -- just a little convenience. At the same time, the downside of needing one and not having it can be pretty catastrophic (even if unlikely).

[armsmaster270]

I agree fully with MLeaks post If you are going to carry you might as well be ready for the worse case scenario. Normally I carry 1 spare on me with one in my car unless I am on a Ride along with a police agency then I carry 2 plus my BUG

CWPinSC I hope that while you are doing the shooting you are actively seeking good cover at the same time and not just trading shots.

[MLeake]

I also take pretty good care of my magazines, and avoid dropping them where possible. (IE, at the range, I normally baby them; during military quals, I have no trouble letting them drop, so I'm pretty sure I'm not training in a bad habit at my more normal sessions, though this could be a potential concern.)

As far as reliability, the SIG P series and CZ75 series are known for it. So's the Kahr, though again I pick that up next week, and have yet to shoot it (but a range report is likely to follow shortly after I do). I agree fully that reliability is critical to any carry system.

But by nature, and maybe even more by training, I like spares.

On a loosely related note, aircraft engines are very reliable things. Still, I've never regretted having one or three extras, because sometimes engines don't function properly, too.

For that matter, I've never regretted having backup radios. Or backup navaids.

I think you see where I'm going with this...

Cheers,

M

[ThomasPaine]

It does not matter what the odds are that a civilian will ever end up in a shooting situation is. Last time I heard stats most cops never have to discharge their weapon at someone during their career. The fact remains that once you have been in such a situation, at the first opportunity you should always reload your gun so it is fully loaded. You do not pull out your mag and put one or two rounds back in it, you drop it, put in a fresh one and pocket the less than full one. This is nothing more than efficiency and training.

[rantingredneck]

I typically carry one reload for my gun, but usually it's a speedstrip since I've become such a revolver nut of late.

I doubt I'll ever need it, but it's not like it's a lot of extra gear to lug around. I just drop it in my offside pocket and go about my day.

With my LCP I have a handy little pocket mag carrier that I use. Got it from stmcelroy aka www.rkbaholsters.com. Good stuff there.

If I am carrying a full size semi auto (rare these days) I have a couple of fobus mag paddles that I can use. One's a double that pretty much just stays with my truck gun as I rarely actually wear it. The other is a single and I honestly don't wear it very often either.

I do occasionally just tuck a full size mag in my back jeans pocket, but I find by the end of the day it ends up riding in my console or door pocket of my truck or my wife's car.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

If one gives it a little thought, one can comfortably dress and conceal a reasonable semi and mag pouch. With no offense, I find the statements that you can't not believeable.

Even in TX, a nice TX tee shirt and then a big floppy light weight over shirt , like a Magellan or Columbia fishing shirt works just fine. Many folks have the t and overshirt look so you don't stand out. Get a size or two bigger. You don't print.

I've hung with groups of folks dressed like that and we don't look like the SWAT team.

Basically, there is no down side to extra ammo - what we do see is folks locking into a position and then defending it because it's an argument.

If you shoot a lot, you see guns and mags go belly up quite a bit.