Green Dot powder ... without green dots?

[dogfood]

Let me say this upfront: I'm not going to use this powder. It becomes fertilizer in the spring. This question is asked out of technical curiosity only.

A friend recently gave me a half full container of Hercules Green Dot. This is one of the old 15 pound cardboard cartons with the lid that slides off after you break the seal (kind of like the old Quaker Oats containers, for those of you old enough to remember).

The friend received this from a widow whose husband was an avid shotgun reloader (where Green Dot in big volumes would make sense). The container is marked August 1983, and based on the Hercules logo, this is believable ... based on my recollection of the Hercules logo on the 1 pound Green Dot containers I had purchased in the late 80's. Although the cardboard container is certainly not airtight, the powder appears ok: no rust/brown discoloration and no foul odor ... but there is certainly less ether smell than with new powder.

But here's the strange thing: There are no green dots in this Green Dot. Granted it may not be Green Dot at all, but it would seem odd for someone to transfer a large amount of other powder (presumably from its own large container) to a Green Dot container. But people do odd stuff. I don't have any other Green Dot on hand to compare - and I'm not sure if that would be valid anyhow, given that it has been changed by Alliant somewhat over the years.

Assuming it really is Green Dot, I guess I would come to one of two conclusions: Either some batches of Green Dot didn't have green dots in the past ... or the green dots in my powder faded and/or deteriorated over time. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this?

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks,
dogfood

[SHR970]

I assume that it is NOT Green Dot.

I have used the Dots since the early 90's and have used 80's era powder before. If it doesn't have the colored dots, it is not what the container says. It is under the heading of UNKNOWN powder.

Just my opinion but better safe than sorry.

[JohnMoses]

I had a container of red dot just like you describe. After I quit shotgun loading, It took me about 20 years to use it up 3.8 grains at a time in 38 specials. The red dots were pretty faded by then, but I bought a pound of brand new red dot and chrono ed the 2 lots. No real difference. Later, I tried the new cleaner burning red dot. Still no difference. If you have 15 lbs of a flake powder, its a dot powder, or maybe unique. I'd load some up in a safe charge for any of those powders, chrono it, check for pressure signs or high sd, and then load and shoot. If it doesn't smell bad, it's probably ok.

[RC20]

I have Green Dot of the same era so maybe I can help.

Now I have to go look at my Green Dot, never remember seeing dots in it and did not know they were there. Hmmmm.

I think GD was the only dotted powder I ever had though.

Ok, it has Dots, vague memories, didn't use it much.

A small smattering of Green Dots so not obvious at first, I had to sift it around. Not bright Green but not gone either, just not very many of them.

Also, the rest is a lighter gray and a darker grey blend.

This is same Cardboard tube setup and right in that year era.

If its the mixed blend looking maybe spread some out and get a magnify glass and or if it matches the rest do cautious tests if you want.

I have shot my other powders of that era and just fine. Also am in a generally cooler climate and lower humidity so use discretion depending on locale.

[Sevens]

It was within the last 6 months that I burned up some Hercules Green Dot that I most likely purchased around 1992 or so, and the Green Dot flakes mixed in with the black ones were clearly evident. For -years- this Green Dot has annoyed the heck out of me and I finally found a fantastic place to use it and I'm glad I kept it all this time. (*gulp* Now I wanna buy more of it... )

That's not to say your (older) powder couldn't have faded green dot flakes, I just really don't know. But I'll trot out the same argument I've made in the past:

We are often trying to be frugal at this game and personally, I've always taken that very seriously. It's almost like a side-hobby, being frugal and putting thought in to how I use my money and how I can make the best of what I have just tickles the happy spot inside me. But if we can strip the emotion away for a minute and look at it rationally, it ends up being a very simple risk-reward equation.

Things might simply be looked at differently if what you had was 8 or 15 pounds of this powder. But we're literally talking about a pound. With tax, this is like $25. And for those of us who buy in bulk (I shop for 8 lb'ers whenever possible), we're talking like $16 or $17.

For the risk involved in having mis-identified the powder, the decision (for me) has LONG since been made.

Yes, I realize fully that you stated up front that you have no plans to use it.
I fully agree, I simply wanted to articulate the why.

[rg1]

Have some old Blue Dot and the blue has almost disappeared. Have to look closely to see the pale flakes.

[dogfood]

Additional thoughts/observations:

(1) After very close inspection and a bunch of sifting around, I did find some faded green flakes. Certainly not in the quantity I remember from the Green Dot I had purchased years ago ... and not in the same quantity as red flakes in the Red Dot I have from the same era ... but the green flakes are there. So I guess it could be Green Dot after all.

(2) If it isn't Green Dot - and assuming it's not another "Dot", I guess it could be one (or a combo) of several flake powders: Unique (as mentioned earlier) and Herco come to mind ... but also maybe 700X or 4756? Again, it's hard to say when you don't have the known powder on hand with which to compare it.

Anyway, I guess I'll never know for sure. It's certainly not all that important ... just an interesting puzzle (interesting to me at least).

Thanks to all who provided input.

dogfood

[HawkeyeNRAlifer]

When I first got into reloading back in the 80's, I got a deal on a bunch of dots. All colors plus some Herco, Unique and 2400. I didn't really care that most of it was for shotguns. I've purchased an eight poud can of Greendot since but even the last dregs of the others still retain their color. The color might have faded, but you really should see something.

It will make good fertilizer for the lawn come spring.

[GP100man]

700x is a fine flake powder , looks like smaller flake size.

4756 looks like very short cut cyls.