THE Most Important Element in Self-Defense? - Page 2

kungfucowboy · May 26, 2008, 11:59 PM

i agree with mind set. however saying situational awareness is not bad as most people who have situational awareness also have the proper mindset to defend themselves or not be in a bad situation in the first place.

Shadow1198 · May 28, 2008, 02:10 AM

I voted for other. I do feel situational awareness is one of the most important aspects. If you can avoid trouble, so much the better. However, I consider mindset ultimately to be the most important. You can have all the awareness you want but, I think there is still always going to be the possibility of something completely unforeseen occurring. Mindset is ultimately what matters most IMO as, if you are attacked, you need to fight for your life with everything you've got and NEVER give up. 9 times out of 10, in my opinion, mindset is the one major factor differentiating losers and winners, in any context.

Lawyer Daggit · May 28, 2008, 02:30 AM

Clearly a willingness to defend yourself. Situational awareness prevents the other guy getting you first, but unless you have the willingness to defend yourself and kill- and a lot of people do not have this, you will not succeed.

grey sky · May 28, 2008, 05:59 AM

situational awareness dosnt mean your in condition red 24-7 as Barney fife would say "A coiled spring ready to act"
One can not stay in red like that it would /will wear one out.
That said awareness is the primary skill.

Musketeer · May 28, 2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Clearly a willingness to defend yourself. Situational awareness prevents the other guy getting you first, but unless you have the willingness to defend yourself and kill- and a lot of people do not have this, you will not succeed.

Yet not being aware to what is coming will kill you while the aware person who may not have the drive to kill or be killed can avoid the vast majority of situations based on awareness alone.

Like the car commercials stressing safety, the safest way to survive an accident is not to have one. Likewise with life threatening self defense scenarios.

Scattergun Bob · May 28, 2008, 08:45 AM

Rule # 5. The BEST gunfight that ever was, was the one that never happened!

If that fails, Awareness and alertness may help us with the next task, decisively and aggressively attacking our opponent.

Good Luck & Be Safe

Erik · May 28, 2008, 09:02 AM

Gun centric folks usually choose awareness, because it suggests they won't ever succumb to distraction or surprise, and thus be in a position to either leave or deploy their firearm in a timely manner.

But... that's not always the case.

Erik · May 28, 2008, 09:04 AM

And that said, I voted "other" with mindset in... mind. Hit 'em, stab 'em, shoot 'em to the ground. What ever it takes to carry the day from your compliment of knowledge, skill, and ability. DOn;t have much of a compliment? Well, everyone starts somewhere. I sugegst you start today.

Oh, and don't get me wrong, situational awareness is important and refining and practicing it are quite valuable.

threegun · May 28, 2008, 10:01 AM

Erik, I can't speak for others but the reason I chose situational awareness is because all my tactical training and shooting ability goes out the window when I'm starring down the barrel of a 45. You will not get the chance to deploy your "other" if the bad guy gets the drop on you. Tactics and training are also very important.

PT111 · May 28, 2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

all my tactical training and shooting ability goes out the window when I'm starring down the barrel of a 45

I have always said that there is something about looking down the barrel of a 12 gauge double-barrel shotgun that strikes fear into the heart of any man. The barrel of a .45 is similar and tends to make most forget anything they ever knew.

I have never had that experience and do not want it but I think you are on to something in trying to avoid it if at all possible.

exprt9 · May 28, 2008, 12:26 PM

Situational awareness is the key! You can be the fastest gunslinger and the sharpest shooter in the world but if you have no clue what's going on around you...R.I.P.

yettoblaster · June 5, 2008, 06:13 PM

Situational awareness.

I have never been in a confrontation I didn't want to be part of (except in the military).

I believe you can usually see this stuff coming from a long ways off, and take measures to slow its approach enough to extricate yourself from the scene of an impending crime, if you want to.

In fact, if you SUDDENLY find yourself in an uncontrollable situation, you likely were not as aware as you thought.

Now understand I'm sure there are things you can run into on the street that develop beyond your field of vision and suddenly blind-side you, however in the wide view I believe it comes down to percentages like: how often do you choose to be in "that" part of town. etc.

Chui · June 5, 2008, 06:17 PM

"Gun centric folks usually choose awareness, because it suggests they won't ever succumb to distraction or surprise, and thus be in a position to either leave or deploy their firearm in a timely manner." Or, being loaded for mice find themselves facing a wolf.

yettoblaster · June 5, 2008, 06:27 PM

Actually I believe my .44 Special to be probably equally effective on wolves OR mice.

Recon7 · June 5, 2008, 06:41 PM

kind of a loaded question isn't it?

I voted SA but that of course is no argument against the others. The question that remains is how do you train SA and when does it become paranoia. I think people spaz about the other aspects because they are easier to quantify and control.

Just read a few threads and you will see stuff like:
What caliber is better?
What bullet is better?
I am shooting off to the left, help me out.
I have yet to see the post "should I stare off and daydream or pay the f#@^ attention.

Stay alert stay alive

starshooter231 · June 5, 2008, 10:25 PM

Awareness

Without it the others just don't matter.

spamanon · June 6, 2008, 11:20 PM

I couldn't agree more with the statement about awareness while packing.

Since I have been carrying I am way more alert to my surroundings. I guess it is the weight of the responsibility I have chosen to bear. And it is a heavy weight.

I think this alertness has me way more likely to see trouble coming and avoid it in the first place. This was not the case before I took on the responsibility of carrying a weapon.

Breadslinger · June 7, 2008, 06:51 AM

Awareness. Knowing what's going on around you makes all the difference. It doesn't guarantee you won't ever be surprised; it does however, reduce the possibilities.

HKFan9 · June 15, 2008, 01:06 AM

I voted other. I took a self defense class at college because i needed some extra credits and I was surprised to see that it was a pretty serious, and helpful class. It wasn't one of these arm bar/wrist lock, call the police classes. It WAS 1) run if you can, 2) Inflict as much pain and damage to the BG in a short amount of time(I.E. Gouge eyes, break a wind pipe, break an arm ect.) THEN run. I vote Running as most important in self defense, it should always be the #1 option if the situation allows it.

.300H&H · June 17, 2008, 10:41 AM

Better to be aware&have a Mouse.22 than to be unaware&have a Glock 26.

It applies to a lot of things ie. most of my first aid training always says to begin by 'surveying the scene'.

Also this makes the arguement for concealed carry rather than open carry.

When one 'open carries' one is helping everybody else<including the BG> be
aware...while maybe putting one's own self too confidently asleep.

There's also the tactical arguement that carrying a semiauto without a round in the chamber - is ironically better...because it forces one to be more tactically aware of situations, makes it harder for the BG to take away the gun and immediatly use it on you, and makes one focus on thinking more deliberatly about pulling out the gun.<ironically the way folks used to have to tactically think when carrying single action revolvers.>

Superhornet · June 17, 2008, 11:36 AM

Be aware, be fast, be accurate and be the last one standing.

Recon7 · June 18, 2008, 06:09 PM

HKfan, I agree there is a time and place for the nike defense, but if the lives of others is in danger, or your attacker has a gun and is determined to kill you, you may want to end the fight.

shooter_john · June 18, 2008, 08:52 PM

Mindset.

Rifleman 173 · June 19, 2008, 04:19 PM

The most elemental factor in any shooting situation is: good tactics. Even if you are a mediocre shot, even if you have the biggest handgun or most powerful handgun around, if your tactics are poor then you die. You have GOT to have good tactics in order to make that good shot. All the other things involved in a shooting scenario are important too BUT the key is good tactics.

View Poll Results: If you had to choose, what is THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL element in self-defense?
Situational Awareness	159	88.33%
Gun/Caliber selection	1	0.56%
Shooting skill	8	4.44%
Other	12	6.67%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

May 28, 2008, 02:10 AM	#27
Shadow1198 Member Join Date: June 28, 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 48	I voted for other. I do feel situational awareness is one of the most important aspects. If you can avoid trouble, so much the better. However, I consider mindset ultimately to be the most important. You can have all the awareness you want but, I think there is still always going to be the possibility of something completely unforeseen occurring. Mindset is ultimately what matters most IMO as, if you are attacked, you need to fight for your life with everything you've got and NEVER give up. 9 times out of 10, in my opinion, mindset is the one major factor differentiating losers and winners, in any context. __________________ __________________________________________ Texas people, please check out my local forum: http://www.texasguntalk.com

May 28, 2008, 02:30 AM	#28
Lawyer Daggit Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 1,181	self defence Clearly a willingness to defend yourself. Situational awareness prevents the other guy getting you first, but unless you have the willingness to defend yourself and kill- and a lot of people do not have this, you will not succeed.

May 28, 2008, 08:45 AM	#31
Scattergun Bob Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 1,186	Awareness helps us stay out of combat envelopes Rule # 5. The BEST gunfight that ever was, was the one that never happened! If that fails, Awareness and alertness may help us with the next task, decisively and aggressively attacking our opponent. Good Luck & Be Safe __________________ First, with the most, WINS! Regards, Scattergun Bob

May 28, 2008, 09:02 AM	#32
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	Gun centric folks usually choose awareness, because it suggests they won't ever succumb to distraction or surprise, and thus be in a position to either leave or deploy their firearm in a timely manner. But... that's not always the case. __________________ Meriam Webster's: Main Entry: ci·vil·ian Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\, Function: noun, Date: 14th century, 1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law, 2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1, — civilian adjective

May 26, 2008, 11:59 PM	#26
kungfucowboy Member Join Date: July 18, 2005 Posts: 61	i agree with mind set. however saying situational awareness is not bad as most people who have situational awareness also have the proper mindset to defend themselves or not be in a bad situation in the first place.

May 28, 2008, 05:59 AM	#29
grey sky Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2007 Posts: 324	situational awareness dosnt mean your in condition red 24-7 as Barney fife would say "A coiled spring ready to act" One can not stay in red like that it would /will wear one out. That said awareness is the primary skill.

May 28, 2008, 09:04 AM	#33
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	And that said, I voted "other" with mindset in... mind. Hit 'em, stab 'em, shoot 'em to the ground. What ever it takes to carry the day from your compliment of knowledge, skill, and ability. DOn;t have much of a compliment? Well, everyone starts somewhere. I sugegst you start today. Oh, and don't get me wrong, situational awareness is important and refining and practicing it are quite valuable. __________________ Meriam Webster's: Main Entry: ci·vil·ian Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\, Function: noun, Date: 14th century, 1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law, 2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1, — civilian adjective

May 28, 2008, 10:01 AM	#34
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	Erik, I can't speak for others but the reason I chose situational awareness is because all my tactical training and shooting ability goes out the window when I'm starring down the barrel of a 45. You will not get the chance to deploy your "other" if the bad guy gets the drop on you. Tactics and training are also very important.

May 28, 2008, 12:26 PM	#36
exprt9 Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2005 Location: Buckeye State Posts: 286	Situational awareness is the key! You can be the fastest gunslinger and the sharpest shooter in the world but if you have no clue what's going on around you...R.I.P. __________________ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE! Don't take it forgranted!

June 5, 2008, 06:13 PM	#37
yettoblaster Junior Member Join Date: June 2, 2008 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 10	Situational awareness. I have never been in a confrontation I didn't want to be part of (except in the military). I believe you can usually see this stuff coming from a long ways off, and take measures to slow its approach enough to extricate yourself from the scene of an impending crime, if you want to. In fact, if you SUDDENLY find yourself in an uncontrollable situation, you likely were not as aware as you thought. Now understand I'm sure there are things you can run into on the street that develop beyond your field of vision and suddenly blind-side you, however in the wide view I believe it comes down to percentages like: how often do you choose to be in "that" part of town. etc.

June 5, 2008, 06:17 PM	#38
Chui Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2004 Posts: 1,784	I couldn't resist "Gun centric folks usually choose awareness, because it suggests they won't ever succumb to distraction or surprise, and thus be in a position to either leave or deploy their firearm in a timely manner." Or, being loaded for mice find themselves facing a wolf. __________________ "Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." ~ William Pitt, 1783

June 5, 2008, 06:27 PM	#39
yettoblaster Junior Member Join Date: June 2, 2008 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 10	Actually I believe my .44 Special to be probably equally effective on wolves OR mice.

June 5, 2008, 06:41 PM	#40
Recon7 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Posts: 707	kind of a loaded question isn't it? I voted SA but that of course is no argument against the others. The question that remains is how do you train SA and when does it become paranoia. I think people spaz about the other aspects because they are easier to quantify and control. Just read a few threads and you will see stuff like: What caliber is better? What bullet is better? I am shooting off to the left, help me out. I have yet to see the post "should I stare off and daydream or pay the f#@^ attention. Stay alert stay alive

June 5, 2008, 10:25 PM	#41
starshooter231 Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2006 Location: Central Michigan Posts: 210	Awareness Without it the others just don't matter. __________________ Michigan Gun Owner Michigan CPL Holder Proud Member of The NRA

June 6, 2008, 11:20 PM	#42
spamanon Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2008 Location: idaho Posts: 373	I couldn't agree more with the statement about awareness while packing. Since I have been carrying I am way more alert to my surroundings. I guess it is the weight of the responsibility I have chosen to bear. And it is a heavy weight. I think this alertness has me way more likely to see trouble coming and avoid it in the first place. This was not the case before I took on the responsibility of carrying a weapon. __________________ The second amendment articulates one of my rights, but like the other amendments, grants none.

June 7, 2008, 06:51 AM	#43
Breadslinger Member Join Date: May 7, 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 49	Awareness. Knowing what's going on around you makes all the difference. It doesn't guarantee you won't ever be surprised; it does however, reduce the possibilities.

June 15, 2008, 01:06 AM	#44
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	I voted other. I took a self defense class at college because i needed some extra credits and I was surprised to see that it was a pretty serious, and helpful class. It wasn't one of these arm bar/wrist lock, call the police classes. It WAS 1) run if you can, 2) Inflict as much pain and damage to the BG in a short amount of time(I.E. Gouge eyes, break a wind pipe, break an arm ect.) THEN run. I vote Running as most important in self defense, it should always be the #1 option if the situation allows it.

June 17, 2008, 10:41 AM	#45
.300H&H Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2008 Posts: 215	Better to be aware&have a Mouse.22 than to be unaware&have a Glock 26. It applies to a lot of things ie. most of my first aid training always says to begin by 'surveying the scene'. Also this makes the arguement for concealed carry rather than open carry. When one 'open carries' one is helping everybody else<including the BG> be aware...while maybe putting one's own self too confidently asleep. There's also the tactical arguement that carrying a semiauto without a round in the chamber - is ironically better...because it forces one to be more tactically aware of situations, makes it harder for the BG to take away the gun and immediatly use it on you, and makes one focus on thinking more deliberatly about pulling out the gun.<ironically the way folks used to have to tactically think when carrying single action revolvers.>

June 17, 2008, 11:36 AM	#46
Superhornet Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: florida Posts: 292	Be aware, be fast, be accurate and be the last one standing.

June 18, 2008, 06:09 PM	#47
Recon7 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Posts: 707	HKfan, I agree there is a time and place for the nike defense, but if the lives of others is in danger, or your attacker has a gun and is determined to kill you, you may want to end the fight.

June 18, 2008, 08:52 PM	#48
shooter_john Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2002 Location: ALABAMA Posts: 1,472	I voted other... Mindset. __________________ TROTAC.com

June 19, 2008, 04:19 PM	#49
Rifleman 173 Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 589	The most elemental factor in any shooting situation is: good tactics. Even if you are a mediocre shot, even if you have the biggest handgun or most powerful handgun around, if your tactics are poor then you die. You have *GOT* to have good tactics in order to make that good shot. All the other things involved in a shooting scenario are important too BUT the key is good tactics.