Found another S&W M&P Revolver

GaryED50 · October 25, 2014, 07:21 PM

Second Smith and Wesson M&P but Victory model this time

I stopped by my LGS and found this in 38 S&W

This was stamped on the barrel by someone other then S&W

did some research and those are British proof marks I believe.

across the top strap it says US Property G.D.H.

Gary

SaxonPig · October 25, 2014, 07:36 PM

The 38 S&W requires loading your own.

James K · October 25, 2014, 07:56 PM

It reads GHD, not GDH. The initials are those of BGEN Guy H. Drewry, head of the Springfield Ordnance District. He didn't himself inspect guns, but his initials showed it passed government inspection. All lend-lease goods were purchased by the U.S., then "loaned" to the Allies, a legal fiction to evade the Neutrality Act when the L-L Act was passed in March 1941.

The British proof marks are commercial proofs, put on when the gun was sold out of British stores; most were bought by U.S. importers (e.g., Interarms) but some went to other countries or were bought by Britons, who at that time were still allowed to own functional handguns.

The .767" is the case length, so the gun is chambered for .38 S&W. The cartridge is still made, but is scarce. Many of those guns were reamed to convert them to .38 Special. Cases may bulge slightly, but it is a perfectly good conversion, since the barrels for both calibers appear to be the same, even though in theory, the .38 S&W should be slightly larger.

Technically, it is not an M&P, as that term was used by S&W only for the ones in .38 Special; the ones in .38 S&W for the Allies were called the ".38/200 Model".

Jim

GaryED50 · October 25, 2014, 08:02 PM

Quote:

t reads GHD, not GDH. The initials are those of BGEN Guy H. Drewry, head of the Springfield Ordnance District. He didn't himself inspect guns, but his initials showed it passed government inspection. All lend-lease goods were purchased by the U.S., then "loaned" to the Allies, a legal fiction to evade the Neutrality Act when the L-L Act was passed in March 1941.

The British proof marks are commercial proofs, put on when the gun was sold out of British stores; most were bought by U.S. importers (e.g., Interarms) but some went to other countries or were bought by Britons, who at that time were still allowed to own functional handguns.

The .767" is the case length, so the gun is chambered for .38 S&W. The cartridge is still made, but is scarce. Many of those guns were reamed to convert them to .38 Special. Cases may bulge slightly, but it is a perfectly good conversion, since the barrels for both calibers appear to be the same, even though in theory, the .38 S&W should be slightly larger.

Technically, it is not an M&P, as that term was used by S&W only for the ones in .38 Special; the ones in .38 S&W for the Allies were called the ".38/200 Model".

Jim
__________________

Thanks Jim I didn't know any of that. what does the 3 1/2 ton mark mean?

Gary

GaryED50 · October 25, 2014, 10:00 PM

Blimey I got me a yank that served in Britain :-) Good Show!!

Gary

James K · October 25, 2014, 10:07 PM

It is the standard working pressure of the cartridge, by the 1954 rules then in effect.
It is supposedly in British Long Tons, but seems to be in some obscure unit used only for guns. Anyway, it works out to 10,427 psi.

See: http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3428

Jim

GaryED50 · October 26, 2014, 12:25 AM

Quote:

The 38 S&W requires loading your own

A box of 38 S&W was $35 at the LGS. If I hand load about how much cheaper would it be?

Gary

testuser79 · October 26, 2014, 06:41 AM

I reloaded this cartridge with a friend one time, he bought the dies and we used my press. It was very easy to reload, we just used .357 plated bullets and Bullseye, which produced very good groups, easy recoil and low extreme spreads. The revolver was an old double action Enfield.

According to my records, a 125 grain plated bullet at 753 fps with an extreme spread of about 20 fps. I didn't bother writing down the powder charge, but I imagine it was a starting load from the Speer 13 manual.

Assuming you purchase your own bullets, not cast them, I'm guessing you could reload a case for $5 - $7 per 50 rounds or whatever it costs to reload .38 Special, since you're using the same primers, powder and bullets.

peggysue · October 26, 2014, 07:42 AM

Probably used in the Lend Lease Program to Brittan just before we entered WW 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

October 25, 2014, 07:21 PM	#1
GaryED50 Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2012 Location: Dawsonville Georgia Posts: 542	Found another S&W M&P Revolver Second Smith and Wesson M&P but Victory model this time I stopped by my LGS and found this in 38 S&W This was stamped on the barrel by someone other then S&W did some research and those are British proof marks I believe. across the top strap it says US Property G.D.H. Gary Last edited by GaryED50; October 25, 2014 at 07:33 PM.

October 25, 2014, 07:36 PM	#2
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	The 38 S&W requires loading your own.

October 25, 2014, 07:56 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It reads GHD, not GDH. The initials are those of BGEN Guy H. Drewry, head of the Springfield Ordnance District. He didn't himself inspect guns, but his initials showed it passed government inspection. All lend-lease goods were purchased by the U.S., then "loaned" to the Allies, a legal fiction to evade the Neutrality Act when the L-L Act was passed in March 1941. The British proof marks are commercial proofs, put on when the gun was sold out of British stores; most were bought by U.S. importers (e.g., Interarms) but some went to other countries or were bought by Britons, who at that time were still allowed to own functional handguns. The .767" is the case length, so the gun is chambered for .38 S&W. The cartridge is still made, but is scarce. Many of those guns were reamed to convert them to .38 Special. Cases may bulge slightly, but it is a perfectly good conversion, since the barrels for both calibers appear to be the same, even though in theory, the .38 S&W should be slightly larger. Technically, it is not an M&P, as that term was used by S&W only for the ones in .38 Special; the ones in .38 S&W for the Allies were called the ".38/200 Model". Jim

October 25, 2014, 10:00 PM	#5
GaryED50 Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2012 Location: Dawsonville Georgia Posts: 542	Blimey I got me a yank that served in Britain :-) Good Show!! Gary

October 25, 2014, 10:07 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It is the standard working pressure of the cartridge, by the 1954 rules then in effect. It is supposedly in British Long Tons, but seems to be in some obscure unit used only for guns. Anyway, it works out to 10,427 psi. See: http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3428 Jim

October 26, 2014, 06:41 AM	#8
testuser79 Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2014 Posts: 115	I reloaded this cartridge with a friend one time, he bought the dies and we used my press. It was very easy to reload, we just used .357 plated bullets and Bullseye, which produced very good groups, easy recoil and low extreme spreads. The revolver was an old double action Enfield. According to my records, a 125 grain plated bullet at 753 fps with an extreme spread of about 20 fps. I didn't bother writing down the powder charge, but I imagine it was a starting load from the Speer 13 manual. Assuming you purchase your own bullets, not cast them, I'm guessing you could reload a case for $5 - $7 per 50 rounds or whatever it costs to reload .38 Special, since you're using the same primers, powder and bullets.

October 26, 2014, 07:42 AM	#9
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	Probably used in the Lend Lease Program to Brittan just before we entered WW 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease