question for the experts on upgrades to a 1911

steve-o 1911 · March 17, 2008, 08:56 PM

Hey I have a Taurus PT 1911 that I want to use for starting out in competition. I love the gun, it shoots well, and I barely ever had it jam on me. So my question is should I get a trigger job done to it (shear, lighter hammer, springs, and disconnector). Should I buy a kit so the stuff comes together or should I buy each part separately and look for the best parts in my price range. I heard alot of people say if the guns works dont change it. So I always have that on my mind, i dont want to screw up a perfectly good working gun. I plan on getting a better gun for competition once I know I'm hard core about it but for now I would love to make my gun better if possible. Also even if it saids ready to be drop in should I still have a gun smith do it all, so they can make the right adjustments? Thanks!!

cdrt · March 18, 2008, 10:06 AM

Since you don't list a location I can't recommend a local gunsmith for you. How many rounds to do you have through the pistol? And what do you think the trigger pull is now? And are you somewhat happy with how it's working?

I would recommend you take it to a gunsmith and let him pick out the parts you need. He may have a preference for your particular model and what works the best. If he's a decent guy, he'll charge you what it actually costs for the parts plus his time and labor. And you need to know what trigger pull is the minimum for whatever discipline you're competing in. Too light a trigger could get you disqualified. For Bullseye, a .45 must be at least 3 and half pounds. For CMP Leg matches, it has to be at least 4 pounds.

steve-o 1911 · March 18, 2008, 10:45 AM

Thanks for the input. I live in Orlando, Fl. I would say I have around 3000-5000 rds through it. The trigger is how I like it, no slack in the trigger, it fires right when I press it. I dont know what the weight is on the trigger and dont know how to find out besides going to a gunsmith. What would you recommend on the trigger pull for competition shooting

cdrt · March 18, 2008, 12:34 PM

I shoot Bullseye, so my .45 wad guns are set at just over 3 and half pounds and my Hardball gun is set a 4 and quarter. Three and a half seems pretty reasonable to me, no matter what kind of competition you're doing. A good gunsmith or your local match director should have a set of trigger weights that they could use to check your pistol.

Jim Watson · March 18, 2008, 01:38 PM

What kind of "competition?"

If you like the trigger, why change it?

What else are you thinking about?

M1911 · March 18, 2008, 01:48 PM

As others have said, what kind of competition?

Trigger pull is measured with a trigger pull guage, available from many vendors: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=220725

If you like the trigger as is, leave it. If you want it fixed, send it to an experienced gunsmith. Most 1911 hammer/sear/disconnectors are not drop-in and need to be fitted. Leave that for someone who has the right jigs and knows what they are doing.

wjkuleck · March 18, 2008, 02:27 PM

What's more important than the weight is the quality of the trigger break; you want to feel the ol' glass-rod-snapping.

No creep, BANG!

Regards,

Walt

steve-o 1911 · March 18, 2008, 02:40 PM

first I'm starting out in IPSC and maybe branch into others. I like the trigger as it is, so then I shouldnt worry about a lighter hammer or anything?

steve-o 1911 · March 18, 2008, 03:01 PM

there is no creep in the trigger before it goes bang. If i mess with the trigger pull will that change anything like adding some creep to the trigger

Ken O · March 18, 2008, 09:08 PM

Don't do anything to it until you shoot a few matches and know what you want. Maybe you would rather spend the money on different sights, holster, etc, etc.

I also was waiting to hear what competition you were thinking of shooting, since you say ISPC, make it IDPA legal and your good for ISPC, IDPA, Steel Challenge etc.

If you go into Bullseye you would be better off picking up another gun that is set up for which type you plan to shoot. If going for Leg points (cmp) than you need a hardball gun, but there are more NRA shoots so you would probably go with a wadcutter gun. At any rate, shoot what you got for now and make an informed decision later.

M1911 · March 20, 2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

I like the trigger as it is, so then I shouldnt worry about a lighter hammer or anything?

Why?

Why would you want a lighter hammer?

If the trigger pull weight is how you like it and if there is no creep and little overtravel, then you're all set. What else do you need?

If you just want to buy toys, that's fine, but you don't need to. I suggest you shoot it as is for a season. At the end of the season you'll be in a better position to judge what sort of changes you might want to make.

steve-o 1911 · March 20, 2008, 08:37 PM

I'm not going to buy anything internal for it til I get alot of opinions cause I'm still new to this. I dont want to mess with the trigger at all. I was just trying to find out more and learn more what certain upgrades do to a gun. Like a lighter hammer, or different shears or springs. I like my trigger I just want to know if there is anything I could do internally to make it better. But this is all down the road, I plan to shoot at competitions and find out how it shoots and from there decide if I can do something better to it. I just dont know what differences it would make to my gun. You always see troughs parts in the catalog you could buy that are for competition, I just want to know what help they would do.

M1911 · March 21, 2008, 07:32 AM

steve-o:

Once again, replacing hammers and sears in a 1911 is NOT a job for an amateur. They need to be fitted. A gunsmith will typically do this with a jig and a 10x microscope. We're talking thousandths of an inch and a couple degrees of angle that can make the difference between a good trigger job and a dangerous gun.

I am completely baffled about why you keep going on about a lighter hammer. I don't know anyone who chooses a 1911 hammer by its weight.

I don't know what you are referring to by the word "shear." 1911s have a sear.

Different gunsmiths have different preferences for the parts that they work with. Some might like Ed Brown's parts, others may favor Wilson. There are very few people who are not gunsmiths who could talk to you about the pros and cons of one 1911 sear or hammer versus another.

If your gun is reliable and you like the trigger pull, then you've got the right sear and hammer. If the gun stops working or the trigger pull isn't right, then take it to a good gunsmith and listen to what he recommends. He may be able to fix it with a bit of careful fitting, or he may need to replace the hammer and sear. If he needs to replace the hammer and sear, he'll recommend parts that he has used successfully in the past.

As for the recoil spring, if your discharged cases are landing 5-6' away from you, then you have the correct spring. If they are flying 12' away, then you need a stronger spring. If they are landing 2' away or the slide is not fully cycling, then you need a lighter spring. There, you now know everything you'll ever need to know about 1911 recoil springs.

There are plenty of books about 1911s and plenty of DVDs about practical shooting. Go buy some.

steve-o 1911 · March 21, 2008, 11:05 AM

Lol thanks M1911, for the lesson on the springs, but I didnt know that so I learned something. I must have said something wrong, if I was going to change something it would def go to a gunsmith. I know I'm not qualified and I dont want to screw anything up. 2nd your right I got the word wrong I didnt mean 'shear' I meant 'sear'. I getting my words mixed up from school and guns. Third I wasnt choosing a gun by the hammer. I have the gun. I was just wondering what different sizes or weighted hammers do. That was all just curiosity about changing different parts. I was hoping you guys would enlighten me with your knowledge so I could learn something, but I do plan on getting dvds someday. Well then I have a question for you M1911 the hammer on my 1911 is blue finish, I would like to get a SS finish just for looks. Should I see if they make the same hammer I have with SS, or would that still mess with the guns performance? Also changing the slide stop and thumb safety to SS would that do anything. These are all for looks. Thanks guys

March 17, 2008, 08:56 PM	#1
steve-o 1911 Member Join Date: March 15, 2008 Posts: 37	question for the experts on upgrades to a 1911 Hey I have a Taurus PT 1911 that I want to use for starting out in competition. I love the gun, it shoots well, and I barely ever had it jam on me. So my question is should I get a trigger job done to it (shear, lighter hammer, springs, and disconnector). Should I buy a kit so the stuff comes together or should I buy each part separately and look for the best parts in my price range. I heard alot of people say if the guns works dont change it. So I always have that on my mind, i dont want to screw up a perfectly good working gun. I plan on getting a better gun for competition once I know I'm hard core about it but for now I would love to make my gun better if possible. Also even if it saids ready to be drop in should I still have a gun smith do it all, so they can make the right adjustments? Thanks!!

March 18, 2008, 10:06 AM	#2
cdrt Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: The Lone Star State Posts: 255	Since you don't list a location I can't recommend a local gunsmith for you. How many rounds to do you have through the pistol? And what do you think the trigger pull is now? And are you somewhat happy with how it's working? I would recommend you take it to a gunsmith and let him pick out the parts you need. He may have a preference for your particular model and what works the best. If he's a decent guy, he'll charge you what it actually costs for the parts plus his time and labor. And you need to know what trigger pull is the minimum for whatever discipline you're competing in. Too light a trigger could get you disqualified. For Bullseye, a .45 must be at least 3 and half pounds. For CMP Leg matches, it has to be at least 4 pounds. __________________ Navy Vet, SWIFT Boat OIC, Distinguished Pistol Shot #1399 USS JOHN S. MCCAIN (DDG-36)

March 18, 2008, 12:34 PM	#4
cdrt Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: The Lone Star State Posts: 255	I shoot Bullseye, so my .45 wad guns are set at just over 3 and half pounds and my Hardball gun is set a 4 and quarter. Three and a half seems pretty reasonable to me, no matter what kind of competition you're doing. A good gunsmith or your local match director should have a set of trigger weights that they could use to check your pistol. __________________ Navy Vet, SWIFT Boat OIC, Distinguished Pistol Shot #1399 USS JOHN S. MCCAIN (DDG-36)

March 18, 2008, 02:27 PM	#7
wjkuleck Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2007 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 1,220	What's more important than the weight is the quality of the trigger break; you want to feel the ol' glass-rod-snapping. No creep, BANG! Regards, Walt __________________ Author, NEW! The M1911 Complete Owner's Guide The M14 and M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guides The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide The AR-15 Complete Assembly and (New 4th Edition) Owner's Guides

March 18, 2008, 10:45 AM	#3
steve-o 1911 Member Join Date: March 15, 2008 Posts: 37	Thanks for the input. I live in Orlando, Fl. I would say I have around 3000-5000 rds through it. The trigger is how I like it, no slack in the trigger, it fires right when I press it. I dont know what the weight is on the trigger and dont know how to find out besides going to a gunsmith. What would you recommend on the trigger pull for competition shooting

March 18, 2008, 01:38 PM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	What kind of "competition?" If you like the trigger, why change it? What else are you thinking about?

March 18, 2008, 01:48 PM	#6
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	As others have said, what kind of competition? Trigger pull is measured with a trigger pull guage, available from many vendors: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=220725 If you like the trigger as is, leave it. If you want it fixed, send it to an experienced gunsmith. Most 1911 hammer/sear/disconnectors are not drop-in and need to be fitted. Leave that for someone who has the right jigs and knows what they are doing.

March 18, 2008, 02:40 PM	#8
steve-o 1911 Member Join Date: March 15, 2008 Posts: 37	first I'm starting out in IPSC and maybe branch into others. I like the trigger as it is, so then I shouldnt worry about a lighter hammer or anything?

March 18, 2008, 03:01 PM	#9
steve-o 1911 Member Join Date: March 15, 2008 Posts: 37	there is no creep in the trigger before it goes bang. If i mess with the trigger pull will that change anything like adding some creep to the trigger

March 18, 2008, 09:08 PM	#10
Ken O Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Half way between Grayling and Cadillac, Michigan Posts: 353	Don't do anything to it until you shoot a few matches and know what you want. Maybe you would rather spend the money on different sights, holster, etc, etc. I also was waiting to hear what competition you were thinking of shooting, since you say ISPC, make it IDPA legal and your good for ISPC, IDPA, Steel Challenge etc. If you go into Bullseye you would be better off picking up another gun that is set up for which type you plan to shoot. If going for Leg points (cmp) than you need a hardball gun, but there are more NRA shoots so you would probably go with a wadcutter gun. At any rate, shoot what you got for now and make an informed decision later.

March 20, 2008, 08:37 PM	#12
steve-o 1911 Member Join Date: March 15, 2008 Posts: 37	I'm not going to buy anything internal for it til I get alot of opinions cause I'm still new to this. I dont want to mess with the trigger at all. I was just trying to find out more and learn more what certain upgrades do to a gun. Like a lighter hammer, or different shears or springs. I like my trigger I just want to know if there is anything I could do internally to make it better. But this is all down the road, I plan to shoot at competitions and find out how it shoots and from there decide if I can do something better to it. I just dont know what differences it would make to my gun. You always see troughs parts in the catalog you could buy that are for competition, I just want to know what help they would do.

March 21, 2008, 07:32 AM	#13
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	steve-o: Once again, replacing hammers and sears in a 1911 is NOT a job for an amateur. They need to be fitted. A gunsmith will typically do this with a jig and a 10x microscope. We're talking thousandths of an inch and a couple degrees of angle that can make the difference between a good trigger job and a dangerous gun. I am completely baffled about why you keep going on about a lighter hammer. I don't know anyone who chooses a 1911 hammer by its weight. I don't know what you are referring to by the word "shear." 1911s have a sear. Different gunsmiths have different preferences for the parts that they work with. Some might like Ed Brown's parts, others may favor Wilson. There are very few people who are not gunsmiths who could talk to you about the pros and cons of one 1911 sear or hammer versus another. If your gun is reliable and you like the trigger pull, then you've got the right sear and hammer. If the gun stops working or the trigger pull isn't right, then take it to a good gunsmith and listen to what he recommends. He may be able to fix it with a bit of careful fitting, or he may need to replace the hammer and sear. If he needs to replace the hammer and sear, he'll recommend parts that he has used successfully in the past. As for the recoil spring, if your discharged cases are landing 5-6' away from you, then you have the correct spring. If they are flying 12' away, then you need a stronger spring. If they are landing 2' away or the slide is not fully cycling, then you need a lighter spring. There, you now know everything you'll ever need to know about 1911 recoil springs. There are plenty of books about 1911s and plenty of DVDs about practical shooting. Go buy some.

March 21, 2008, 11:05 AM	#14
steve-o 1911 Member Join Date: March 15, 2008 Posts: 37	Lol thanks M1911, for the lesson on the springs, but I didnt know that so I learned something. I must have said something wrong, if I was going to change something it would def go to a gunsmith. I know I'm not qualified and I dont want to screw anything up. 2nd your right I got the word wrong I didnt mean 'shear' I meant 'sear'. I getting my words mixed up from school and guns. Third I wasnt choosing a gun by the hammer. I have the gun. I was just wondering what different sizes or weighted hammers do. That was all just curiosity about changing different parts. I was hoping you guys would enlighten me with your knowledge so I could learn something, but I do plan on getting dvds someday. Well then I have a question for you M1911 the hammer on my 1911 is blue finish, I would like to get a SS finish just for looks. Should I see if they make the same hammer I have with SS, or would that still mess with the guns performance? Also changing the slide stop and thumb safety to SS would that do anything. These are all for looks. Thanks guys