Is .22 LR or WMR the better pair for a .410 combination gun?

Cosmodragoon · June 16, 2013, 11:55 PM

I'm intrigued by the idea of combination guns and the Savage Model 42 recently caught my eye. It seems like an excellent choice for occasional small-game hunting and regular backyard fun that's accessible to the whole family.

The question is whether the .410 is better paired with classic .22 LR or the zippy .22 WMR.

As for personal needs, I almost exclusively shoot centerfire at the moment. My only shotgun is a 12-gauge and the only .22 in our house is my wife's Rascal in .22 LR. I've thought about picking up either a .22 LR or a .410 for myself over the years and this could be both. (It is also "either" as these are still functional firearms even if you have just one type of ammo on hand.) On the other hand, it might be nice to have something in .22 WMR. I hadn't given this caliber much thought in the past but if I was going to buy a .410 for novelty anyway, why not have the extra novelty of a .22 magnum attached to it? This could be the double odd duck in my collection.

As for hunting, I'm especially curious to hear from those with experience. How do you contrast .22 LR and .22 WMR on various types of prey and how does that contrast change when you have the .410 option easily at hand?

Mobuck · June 17, 2013, 08:01 AM

Considering the potential range of that combo gun, I'd go with the 22 lr. That's basically a squirrel and rabbit gun in most cases and having to use the more expensive 22 mag ammo would seem counter productive.

Magnum Wheel Man · June 17, 2013, 09:24 AM

I agree with MOBUCK, if it's just going to be a fun gun, not a "survival gun" if it were something a person was going to stick in a "bug bag" I'd say get the 22 mag, as it could take bigger game in an emergency, & you'd have to have a good supply of ammo for it's use anyway...

just to use for hunting squirrels & rabbits, the 22 LR is plenty, "usually" easier to buy ammo, & much cheaper...

since you're a center fire guy, maybe the 20 Gauge/ 22 Hornet or 223 would be a better choice ( though more rifle than needed for squirrels & rabbits ) the 20 gauge shells are often cheaper than .410 & has more knock down

WV_gunner · June 17, 2013, 09:37 AM

I've got a 24v and really like it. It's a 30-30/20 gauge with a scope. About to take the scope off. I'm looking for a .357 magnum with a pistol grip. I'm guessing you're looking at new ones since you are looking at a 42. I'd go with the .22 LR. If you want a bigger round, use a .410 slug.

Pahoo · June 17, 2013, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Considering the potential range of that combo gun, I'd go with the 22 lr.

If I could only own one, it would be the .22LR. Throughout the years I have owned a variety of combinations and currently down to the .22LR. That one will go to my Grandson, on his 16th. birthday. I know that lately a lot of folks have gone to a .22WMR, primarily because of the LR shortages but when all the craziness passes the LR will "still" rule. ....

I have shot Rem. Yellow-Jackets in mine and it is a destroyer ....

Be Safe !!!

hammie · June 17, 2013, 10:56 AM

I would choose the .22 WMR. In a rifle barrel, the difference in performance from a .22 LR, is significant. And, if you want .22 LR performance, you can shoot .22 winchester rimfire in it as an alternative.

As for the ammo expense, a break top rifle is not exactly a rapid fire gun. It will take you quite a while to go through a box of 50. Your arms will get more exercise than your wallet.

Magnum Wheel Man · June 17, 2013, 10:59 AM

is 22 Winchester the same case diameter as the Magnum ??? I guess I didn't know that...

How available is 22 Winchester ammo "normally" ??? ( obviously the climate we are is is not the "normal" of the past... though it may be the new "normal"

)

hammie · June 17, 2013, 11:09 AM

@Magnumwheel: Not .22 winchester, but .22 winchester rimfire (WRF). I believe winchester and CCI both manufacture it. And yes it fits a .22WMR chamber. The box lists a .45 grain flat nose bullet at 1300 ft/sec. Not too much difference from a high velocity .22 LR. Pre-panic... it was readily available. Right now...impossible to find. If the panic every gets over, just order 10 boxes for a lifetime supply.

mavracer · June 17, 2013, 11:21 AM

Quote:

As for the ammo expense, a break top rifle is not exactly a
rapid fire gun. It will take you quite a while to go through a box of 50.

That was my thought. I was looking for one just to have for something to carry while I was playing deer guide with dad. I could care less about shooting deer myself but I like to go.
Any way I stumbled across a 22mag/20g and couldn't be more pleased. I think I would have been just as happy with a LR but am real glad I got a 20g. It is IMHO a far more versatile gun than a .410.

Magnum Wheel Man · June 17, 2013, 11:27 AM

yep... sorry...too lazy... should have just typed the letters... I did go to Midway, just to compare numbers... I was aware of the cartridge, but had never looked at it, so I didn't know it was the same diameter as the mag... ( it's a good day... I learned something today

)

rather than sidetrack the thread, I'd assume the WRF would work fine in the single shots... but likely could expect issues in mag fed repeaters ???

hootey · June 17, 2013, 11:33 AM

I would go with the 22lr. It would be a lot less expensive to shoot when all this "Panic Buying" has blown over. The 22lr is accurate out to 100yds with open sights if you practice a little. Plus, if you did decide to use it for hunting squirrels and rabbits, 22shorts are a lot quieter, cheaper, and just as accurate out to 40yds(squirrel and rabbit range with an over/under). Besides if you went out hunting and had eight to ten good shots, your ears will not RING the rest of the day. Growing up in the midwest, I spent many, many hours hunting with a stevens over/under 22/410 while growing up. It was a lot of fun and I put a lot of meat on the table

Boomer58cal · June 17, 2013, 12:23 PM

22 LR is best for a fun gun. I have a Savage C24 22 LR over 20ga. It's the perfict fun gun.

Boomer

hammie · June 17, 2013, 12:26 PM

I knew there would be as many different opinions on this one, as there would be answers, and what's more, they're all valid.

I also grew up hunting in the mid-west and the .22 LR is fine for shooting a squirrel from the base of a tree. However if you're after a groundhog, fox, raccoon, or now coyote, there is a big difference in performance between the 22 LR and a .22 WMR. As a boy in the 50's and 60's, my friends and I shot a lot of groundhogs. When the .22 WMR came out in '59, we all upgraded as soon as we could. Even better, were the rare occasions when I could borrow my dad's .22 hornet, savage 23D. (It wasn't considered terrible then for boys to have rifles or access to guns.)

@Mr. magnumwheel: I've found that you really have to specify and make a distinction for .22 WRF, or others often get confused. I've heard it occasionaly referred to as .22 winchester special. And you're right, the .22WRF is a tad shorter than the .22WMR. I don't know how it would work in an auto loader, but it feeds fine in my marlin bolt gun and works fine in my ruger single six. It will probably be an "individual gun" situation for magazine fed firearms.

Another thing which sometimes causes confusion is the warning against using .22WRF in revolvers. They mean revolvers chambered for .22WRF. It is OK for revolvers chambered for .22WMR.

PetahW · June 17, 2013, 01:09 PM

.

The solution's fairly easy, as I found out:

A .22WR / 20ga for calling varmints; and a .22LR / .410 for squills. .

.

hammie · June 17, 2013, 01:12 PM

@PetahW: I always defer to your wisdom! (truly)

PetahW · June 17, 2013, 01:17 PM

.

I'm a legend in my own mind..........

.

L_Killkenny · June 18, 2013, 09:37 AM

My dislike for combo guns (especially ones in .410) is closely followed by my dislike of the .22M. About the only thing it's better for than a .22lr is chucks and foxes. And that's what centerfires are for so unless you are limited by laws to use rimfires at certain times or for certain things I wouldn't waste time on a .22M.

The combo guns are a poor jack of all trades, master (not even close) of none. Buy a .22lr or buy a shotgun. Pick your poison and dance with who brung ya. Trying to go down the middle doesn't work much of the time. If forced into a combo gun make mine a 12 or 20 with a .223 or .30/30 for the rifle barrel.

PetahW · June 18, 2013, 02:19 PM

.

FWIW, many East Coast dudes are proscribed from using centerfire rifles - so how do you feel about 300,000 new hunters moving to Iowa so we can use them ? .

.

Magnum Wheel Man · June 18, 2013, 02:28 PM

most of Iowa & southern MN is shotgun for big game ( although in MN anyway, I can use a handgun during shotgun season )

Pahoo · June 18, 2013, 04:46 PM

Quote:

FWIW, many East Coast dudes are proscribed from using centerfire rifles - so how do you feel about 300,000 new hunters moving to Iowa so we can use them ? . .

HUH ???
I'm in Iowa and you can use centerfire rifles to hunt deer and Yotes, with some restrictions. ....

Quote:

occasional small-game hunting and regular backyard fun that's accessible to the whole family.

Per your requirement, the .22LR over .410 or 20Ga, is ideal. I currently own a 24BDL in LR and once took a coyote. ....

Now, if you want to get serious about anything bigger than small game, then certainly step up to the WMR.

Be Safe !!!

PetahW · June 18, 2013, 05:05 PM

Yep - In my state, by law, CF rifles can only be used from April 1 to Sept 1, and cannot be larger than .29 caliber.

Also according to the law, at all other times of the year only .22 RF rifles may be used - which has some enforcement officers sctatching their heads when confronted by a .17 cal RF. (doh)

I've long had CF rifles, of course - but have to travel out of state to hunt with them. (Can you say: "Non-resident license" ?

)

.

.

WV_gunner · June 18, 2013, 07:16 PM

In my state center fire rifles are the primary weapon to hunt with. Some use shotguns, but mostly because they got a cheap deal on one. And we can only use slugs to hunt deer and bear if using a shotgun. People use anything from a .223 to a .300 magnum usually. I'd actually like to see a big catridge paired with a .410 by Savage. A 30-06, .308, 7mm-08, .300 magnum, or even a .45-70 would be nice. Maybe even a .243 too. Use the rifle for deer and bear. Use the .410 against snakes and squirrel. I'm not 100% sure but I think the largest rifle catridge Stevens/Savage offered was a .30-30, also a .357 Magnum. Those work for deer but I wouldn't want to get up close and personal with a bear having that. Winchester had a .30-06/12 gauge combination gun too. Far from cheap however.

Baylorattorney · June 18, 2013, 07:43 PM

Depends....22lr ammo is so prevalent,,plus that means 22 long and short could also be fired out of there and that is a big advantage. Still I'd go with the 22 magnum simply because its bigger and I've seen animals taken with it easily.

Baylorattorney · June 18, 2013, 07:47 PM

Was watching that Alaskan Survival series on TV and the old wise mountain man had a .410 22 hornet combo - now that I like.

natman · June 19, 2013, 01:28 AM

It depends. I have a 22/410 that I use for squirrel hunting. I use the 22 if I can get a tree trunk as a backstop and the 410 if I can't. I don't like launching bullets into the air.

But if I just want to wander in the woods, I use a 22 Mag/20 ga.

June 16, 2013, 11:55 PM	#1
Cosmodragoon Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Location: Northeastern US Posts: 1,869	Is .22 LR or WMR the better pair for a .410 combination gun? I'm intrigued by the idea of combination guns and the Savage Model 42 recently caught my eye. It seems like an excellent choice for occasional small-game hunting and regular backyard fun that's accessible to the whole family. The question is whether the .410 is better paired with classic .22 LR or the zippy .22 WMR. As for personal needs, I almost exclusively shoot centerfire at the moment. My only shotgun is a 12-gauge and the only .22 in our house is my wife's Rascal in .22 LR. I've thought about picking up either a .22 LR or a .410 for myself over the years and this could be both. (It is also "either" as these are still functional firearms even if you have just one type of ammo on hand.) On the other hand, it might be nice to have something in .22 WMR. I hadn't given this caliber much thought in the past but if I was going to buy a .410 for novelty anyway, why not have the extra novelty of a .22 magnum attached to it? This could be the double odd duck in my collection. As for hunting, I'm especially curious to hear from those with experience. How do you contrast .22 LR and .22 WMR on various types of prey and how does that contrast change when you have the .410 option easily at hand?

June 17, 2013, 09:24 AM	#3
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I agree with MOBUCK, if it's just going to be a fun gun, not a "survival gun" if it were something a person was going to stick in a "bug bag" I'd say get the 22 mag, as it could take bigger game in an emergency, & you'd have to have a good supply of ammo for it's use anyway... just to use for hunting squirrels & rabbits, the 22 LR is plenty, "usually" easier to buy ammo, & much cheaper... since you're a center fire guy, maybe the 20 Gauge/ 22 Hornet or 223 would be a better choice ( though more rifle than needed for squirrels & rabbits ) the 20 gauge shells are often cheaper than .410 & has more knock down __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

June 17, 2013, 10:56 AM	#6
hammie Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Temple, TX Posts: 959	I would choose the .22 WMR. In a rifle barrel, the difference in performance from a .22 LR, is significant. And, if you want .22 LR performance, you can shoot .22 winchester rimfire in it as an alternative. As for the ammo expense, a break top rifle is not exactly a rapid fire gun. It will take you quite a while to go through a box of 50. Your arms will get more exercise than your wallet. Last edited by hammie; June 17, 2013 at 11:14 AM.

June 17, 2013, 10:59 AM	#7
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	is 22 Winchester the same case diameter as the Magnum ??? I guess I didn't know that... How available is 22 Winchester ammo "normally" ??? ( obviously the climate we are is is not the "normal" of the past... though it may be the new "normal" ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

June 17, 2013, 11:27 AM	#10
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	yep... sorry...too lazy... should have just typed the letters... I did go to Midway, just to compare numbers... I was aware of the cartridge, but had never looked at it, so I didn't know it was the same diameter as the mag... ( it's a good day... I learned something today ) rather than sidetrack the thread, I'd assume the WRF would work fine in the single shots... but likely could expect issues in mag fed repeaters ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

June 17, 2013, 08:01 AM	#2
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Considering the potential range of that combo gun, I'd go with the 22 lr. That's basically a squirrel and rabbit gun in most cases and having to use the more expensive 22 mag ammo would seem counter productive.

June 17, 2013, 09:37 AM	#4
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	I've got a 24v and really like it. It's a 30-30/20 gauge with a scope. About to take the scope off. I'm looking for a .357 magnum with a pistol grip. I'm guessing you're looking at new ones since you are looking at a 42. I'd go with the .22 LR. If you want a bigger round, use a .410 slug.

June 17, 2013, 11:09 AM	#8
hammie Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Temple, TX Posts: 959	@Magnumwheel: Not .22 winchester, but .22 winchester rimfire (WRF). I believe winchester and CCI both manufacture it. And yes it fits a .22WMR chamber. The box lists a .45 grain flat nose bullet at 1300 ft/sec. Not too much difference from a high velocity .22 LR. Pre-panic... it was readily available. Right now...impossible to find. If the panic every gets over, just order 10 boxes for a lifetime supply.

June 17, 2013, 11:33 AM	#11
hootey Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: Greater Northwest Posts: 244	I would go with the 22lr. It would be a lot less expensive to shoot when all this "Panic Buying" has blown over. The 22lr is accurate out to 100yds with open sights if you practice a little. Plus, if you did decide to use it for hunting squirrels and rabbits, 22shorts are a lot quieter, cheaper, and just as accurate out to 40yds(squirrel and rabbit range with an over/under). Besides if you went out hunting and had eight to ten good shots, your ears will not RING the rest of the day. Growing up in the midwest, I spent many, many hours hunting with a stevens over/under 22/410 while growing up. It was a lot of fun and I put a lot of meat on the table

June 17, 2013, 12:23 PM	#12
Boomer58cal Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Location: closer than you think Posts: 967	22 LR is best for a fun gun. I have a Savage C24 22 LR over 20ga. It's the perfict fun gun. Boomer __________________ The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war. We're from the government, we're here to help

June 17, 2013, 12:26 PM	#13
hammie Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Temple, TX Posts: 959	I knew there would be as many different opinions on this one, as there would be answers, and what's more, they're all valid. I also grew up hunting in the mid-west and the .22 LR is fine for shooting a squirrel from the base of a tree. However if you're after a groundhog, fox, raccoon, or now coyote, there is a big difference in performance between the 22 LR and a .22 WMR. As a boy in the 50's and 60's, my friends and I shot a lot of groundhogs. When the .22 WMR came out in '59, we all upgraded as soon as we could. Even better, were the rare occasions when I could borrow my dad's .22 hornet, savage 23D. (It wasn't considered terrible then for boys to have rifles or access to guns.) @Mr. magnumwheel: I've found that you really have to specify and make a distinction for .22 WRF, or others often get confused. I've heard it occasionaly referred to as .22 winchester special. And you're right, the .22WRF is a tad shorter than the .22WMR. I don't know how it would work in an auto loader, but it feeds fine in my marlin bolt gun and works fine in my ruger single six. It will probably be an "individual gun" situation for magazine fed firearms. Another thing which sometimes causes confusion is the warning against using .22WRF in revolvers. They mean revolvers chambered for .22WRF. It is OK for revolvers chambered for .22WMR.

June 17, 2013, 01:09 PM	#14
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. The solution's fairly easy, as I found out: A .22WR / 20ga for calling varmints; and a .22LR / .410 for squills. . .

June 17, 2013, 01:12 PM	#15
hammie Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Temple, TX Posts: 959	@PetahW: I always defer to your wisdom! (truly)

June 17, 2013, 01:17 PM	#16
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. I'm a legend in my own mind.......... .

June 18, 2013, 09:37 AM	#17
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	My dislike for combo guns (especially ones in .410) is closely followed by my dislike of the .22M. About the only thing it's better for than a .22lr is chucks and foxes. And that's what centerfires are for so unless you are limited by laws to use rimfires at certain times or for certain things I wouldn't waste time on a .22M. The combo guns are a poor jack of all trades, master (not even close) of none. Buy a .22lr or buy a shotgun. Pick your poison and dance with who brung ya. Trying to go down the middle doesn't work much of the time. If forced into a combo gun make mine a 12 or 20 with a .223 or .30/30 for the rifle barrel.

June 18, 2013, 02:19 PM	#18
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. FWIW, many East Coast dudes are proscribed from using centerfire rifles - so how do you feel about 300,000 new hunters moving to Iowa so we can use them ? . . .

June 18, 2013, 02:28 PM	#19
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	most of Iowa & southern MN is shotgun for big game ( although in MN anyway, I can use a handgun during shotgun season ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

June 18, 2013, 05:05 PM	#21
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	Yep - In my state, by law, CF rifles can only be used from April 1 to Sept 1, and cannot be larger than .29 caliber. Also according to the law, at all other times of the year only .22 RF rifles may be used - which has some enforcement officers sctatching their heads when confronted by a .17 cal RF. (doh) I've long had CF rifles, of course - but have to travel out of state to hunt with them. (Can you say: "Non-resident license" ? ) . .

June 18, 2013, 07:16 PM	#22
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	In my state center fire rifles are the primary weapon to hunt with. Some use shotguns, but mostly because they got a cheap deal on one. And we can only use slugs to hunt deer and bear if using a shotgun. People use anything from a .223 to a .300 magnum usually. I'd actually like to see a big catridge paired with a .410 by Savage. A 30-06, .308, 7mm-08, .300 magnum, or even a .45-70 would be nice. Maybe even a .243 too. Use the rifle for deer and bear. Use the .410 against snakes and squirrel. I'm not 100% sure but I think the largest rifle catridge Stevens/Savage offered was a .30-30, also a .357 Magnum. Those work for deer but I wouldn't want to get up close and personal with a bear having that. Winchester had a .30-06/12 gauge combination gun too. Far from cheap however.

June 18, 2013, 07:43 PM	#23
Baylorattorney Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2011 Posts: 177	Is .22 LR or WMR the better pair for a .410 combination gun? Depends....22lr ammo is so prevalent,,plus that means 22 long and short could also be fired out of there and that is a big advantage. Still I'd go with the 22 magnum simply because its bigger and I've seen animals taken with it easily.

June 18, 2013, 07:47 PM	#24
Baylorattorney Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2011 Posts: 177	Is .22 LR or WMR the better pair for a .410 combination gun? Was watching that Alaskan Survival series on TV and the old wise mountain man had a .410 22 hornet combo - now that I like.

June 19, 2013, 01:28 AM	#25
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,607	It depends. I have a 22/410 that I use for squirrel hunting. I use the 22 if I can get a tree trunk as a backstop and the 410 if I can't. I don't like launching bullets into the air. But if I just want to wander in the woods, I use a 22 Mag/20 ga.