the man buying up all the ammo?

dewcrew8 · February 26, 2013, 09:49 AM

Has anyone seen or heard that the gov. Is buying up all the ammo and putting it away so its not for sale for us to get. My friends have heard this that live around the country.

**Spats McGee** · February 26, 2013, 10:33 AM

This thread has the potential to descend into serious tinfoilhattery, so tread cautiously. I'll leave it open long enough for someone to provide some relevant and reliable source material, if anyone can confirm or deny, though.

bumnote · February 26, 2013, 10:48 AM

There are thousands...if not hundreds of thousands of new shooters in the last few months. In another thread, I talked about how the wait to get on the local range I go to is now over 2 hours at times. I have no real evidence to back this up, but locally my money's on these people and panic buyers as being the real reason you can't find ammo at most stores. IMO, unless there's real proof, this government buying all the ammo rumor is just wishful conjecture from folks who love to believe in conspiracies.

YARDDOG(1) · February 26, 2013, 10:53 AM

Renolds wrap ; )
Y/D

skimbell · February 26, 2013, 10:57 AM

The government is buying a ton of ammo. As far as I can tell DHS is the primary culprit but I've read reports that the IRS, BTAF and a few other agencies have their hands in it also. I wasn't too concerned because everthing that I see claims that all of the ammo is .40. I don't shoot 40 so...
Anyway, I reads that this year the gov has purchased/ordered more than two b(with a B) illion rounds and has them stored all over the place in large unmarked containers. Reporters have asked about these purchases and simply been told that it's not unusual and the ammo is needed for qualifying practice (uh-huh).

I Binged "government ammunition purchases" and got 647,000 hits so it probably isn't an unfounded concern.

Here's one link:

http://www.naturalnews.com/035649_DH...estic_war.html

jmr40 · February 26, 2013, 10:59 AM

Most rumors like that usually have some basis in fact, but the real reason is often misinterpreted. Just a guess, but after 10 years of fighting in Iraq and Afghnistan I wouldn't be surprised if our military isn't trying to replinish stockpiles of ammo, so I could understand large purchases. If they were trying to prevent sales of ammo to civilians there are more effective ways to go about it.

I am a volunteer non-LEO with our local Sheriff's dept. All of our local LE depts. have had to cut back on training because even they are having trouble locating enough ammo.

zxcvbob · February 26, 2013, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Has anyone seen or heard that the gov. Is buying up all the ammo and putting it away so its not for sale for us to get. My friends have heard this that live around the country.

Like the best rumors, there's a little bit of truth to it. The government is buying lots of ammo (especially .40S&W and .223), which takes it off the market for us. Plus the ammo manufacturers have most of their lines running those 2 calibers to catch up. And all primers and brass goto ammo production before any is sold for reloading.

I don't think it is done to deprive us, I think they really don't care one way or the other because ammo makers give them priority. It would be nice if the ammo manufacturers told the .gov it'll have to wait until their retail supply is caught up, but there are probably contracts in place that prevent that.

The scarcest ammo right now seems to be .22LR, and I don't think the feds buy much of that at all.

zincwarrior · February 26, 2013, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Has anyone seen or heard that the gov. Is buying up all the ammo and putting it away so its not for sale for us to get. My friends have heard this that live around the country.

Much of this stemmed from and order from DHS that was mistakenly viewed as being 1.5Bn rounds. Thats been debunked. Its substantial orders of magnitude lower.

Is the government buying? Sure. Always has been.

Is that why there is a scarcity on the market? Nope.

zincwarrior · February 26, 2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

The government is buying a ton of ammo. As far as I can tell DHS is the primary culprit but I've read reports that the IRS, BTAF and a few other agencies have their hands in it also. I wasn't too concerned because everthing that I see claims that all of the ammo is .40. I don't shoot 40 so...
Anyway, I reads that this year the gov has purchased/ordered more than two b(with a B) illion rounds and has them stored all over the place in large unmarked containers. Reporters have asked about these purchases and simply been told that it's not unusual and the ammo is needed for qualifying practice (uh-huh).

I Binged "government ammunition purchases" and got 647,000 hits so it probably isn't an unfounded concern.

Here's one link:

http://www.naturalnews.com/035649_DH...estic_war.html

Yes this has since been debunked. There was an order, but the way it was reading (multiplying across each line item) is incorrect.
http://senseofevents.blogspot.ca/201...ds-not-so.html

UtopiaTexasG19 · February 26, 2013, 11:11 AM

Some of the rumors are being fueled by the type of government agencies that are supposedly buying the ammunition.

**Tom Servo** · February 26, 2013, 11:41 AM

I hear this rumor all day long. The only source I get from people propagating it is "I heard" or "some blog."

The government buys ammunition because they carry guns and they need to practice. I've supervised training exercises in which one 12-person office can go through 6000-8000 rounds in two days. It adds up, and 10 million rounds isn't much when you consider the payroll for some agencies.

We've got our pundits who love to stir up unease and conspiracy, and they yell "the .gov is buying up X rounds of ammunition! That's ten rounds for every puppy in the United States!" Neither of those statements is mathematically untrue, but that doesn't automatically mean they're related.

zxcvbob is correct on the prioritization of contracts, and zincwarrior's link is well worth reading.

**Mike Irwin** · February 26, 2013, 11:49 AM

"My friends have heard this that live around the country."

Tinfoil mouth-breathing conspiracy theories, and theorists making wild-assed guesses and spreading half-baked rumors, know no geographic boundaries.

Strafer Gott · February 26, 2013, 12:04 PM

I think the government can cause fluctuations in availability. I think we saw one in 7.62x39 some while ago when it was decided the Iraqis would carry AKs.
Let's face it, we buy more guns and Uncle Sam buys more ammo. The only pistol CF I see day in and day out is .40 S&W. Makes me wonder if that was caused by the switch back to 9mm, which was cheap and plentiful. Sure glad I hanged onto the 4006. If I didn't reload, I'd already be out of 9mm. I still can't connect with jacketed bullets. Plated would be fine, but I don't see them either.

Pilot · February 26, 2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Something strange is going on. Federal non-military agencies have bought two billion rounds of ammunition in the last 10 months. The Obama Administration says that federal law enforcement agents need the ammunition for “mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications and other training sessions.”

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...-Of-Ammunition

The NRA however, is playing it down. I suspect in an effort to not be seen as buying into conspiracy theories. Where does the truth lie? I really don't know.

Quote:

Much of the concern stems from a lack of understanding of the law enforcement functions carried about by officers in small federal agencies. These agents have the power to make arrests and execute warrants, just like their better-known counterparts at agencies like the FBI.

For instance, the Social Security Administration solicited offers for 174,000 rounds of pistol ammunition. But the agency has 295 special agents who combat Social Security fraud that costs tax payers billions each year, so the order works out to roughly 590 rounds of ammunition per agent for training, mandatory quarterly qualification shooting and duty use. More than a few NRA members would use that much ammunition in a weekend shooting class or plinking session.

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/ar...mmunition.aspx

Fishing_Cabin · February 26, 2013, 12:21 PM

Next thing you know, someone will want law enforcement to use less ammo, but practice more.... That always confuses me. Ammo doesn't come out of thin air, except for maybe the military getting an air drop

DaleA · February 26, 2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Anyway, I reads that this year the gov has purchased/ordered more than two b(with a B) illion rounds and has them stored all over the place in large unmarked containers.

What's with the 'large unmarked containers' detail? Does this make it more sinister? Seems to me it would make it too easy for the government to get them confused with their large unmarked containers of Malt-O-Meal. It would really really make doing the quarterly inventory hard.

Details like this make me push the whole article into the 'not' bin at my 'believe it or not' sorting facility.

Question: were the large unmarked containers delivered by unmarked black helicopters? Oooooo...shudder....oooooooo.

However, if they really are storing them all over the place, well I guess I could step up and do my patriotic duty and clear up a space in my basement for a pallet or two...

SPEMack618 · February 26, 2013, 01:36 PM

Most of my ammo is stored in "large, unmarked containers"...Rubbermaid doesn't sale labels.

EMH · February 26, 2013, 01:43 PM

www.fedbid.com had an order posted from the DHS

Strafer Gott · February 26, 2013, 01:46 PM

When did all of these Federal agencies get their own cop shops? Not that far back, when an IRS revenue agent needed a gun, they'd call the Marshalls service who would provide armed personnel. I guess no empire is complete without a private army. I notice even the EPA has agents packing.

Brian Pfleuger · February 26, 2013, 01:47 PM

Maybe we should stick a conspiracy thread since we can't seem to make it go away.

Some really simple math...

DHS ordered a MAXIMUM (non-guaranteed) 450 million rounds OVER A 5 YEAR contract. DHS has 135,000 weapons carrying officers. 450,000,000 divided by 5 years is 90,000,000 per year. 90,000,000 per year divided by 135,000 officers is 665 rounds per officer per year.... yeah... 55 rounds a month for each guy..MAXIMUM..

55 rounds a month! Holy smokes!

zincwarrior · February 26, 2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:

www.fedbid.com had an order posted from the DHS

Whats the order? The same one I already cited that was read incorrectly?

**Tom Servo** · February 26, 2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

55 rounds a month! Holy smokes!

According to Alex Jones math, that's 0.000000183 rounds for every man, woman, child in the country!

Yeesh.

SHE3PDOG · February 26, 2013, 01:59 PM

Quote:

DHS ordered a MAXIMUM (non-guaranteed) 450 million rounds OVER A 5 YEAR contract. DHS has 135,000 weapons carrying officers. 450,000,000 divided by 5 years is 90,000,000 per year. 90,000,000 per year divided by 135,000 officers is 665 rounds per officer per year.... yeah... 55 rounds a month for each guy..MAXIMUM..

^This

I've said this in pretty much every "Where's the ammo?" thread I've come across. The DHS has lots of officers, they buy lots of ammo ALL the time. The government buys huge amounts with manufacturing contracts; they don't buy physical product outright. This is no more than a renewal of a contract for them that is simply grabbing more attention because of the current political environment.

dajowi · February 26, 2013, 02:26 PM

"Tinfoilhattery." I love it!

johnwilliamson062 · February 26, 2013, 02:43 PM

People seem to think there are a few hundred FBI agents and ten or twelve ATFE agents. There are quite a few more.

We have somewhere close to a million combat personnel in the military.
I wouldn't be surprised if all the National LEO/DOS/DHS agencies add up to the same. Even department of Education now has armed agents. I don't think there is any way to figure that out though.

They use a lot of ammunition.

I bet they end up buying about 150 rounds per officer per year and that most of that goes to a small number of the armed officers who actually train.

February 26, 2013, 09:49 AM	#1
dewcrew8 Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2009 Posts: 214	the man buying up all the ammo? Has anyone seen or heard that the gov. Is buying up all the ammo and putting it away so its not for sale for us to get. My friends have heard this that live around the country.

February 26, 2013, 10:33 AM	#2
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	This thread has the potential to descend into serious tinfoilhattery, so tread cautiously. I'll leave it open long enough for someone to provide some relevant and reliable source material, if anyone can confirm or deny, though. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

February 26, 2013, 10:48 AM	#3
bumnote Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 407	There are thousands...if not hundreds of thousands of new shooters in the last few months. In another thread, I talked about how the wait to get on the local range I go to is now over 2 hours at times. I have no real evidence to back this up, but locally my money's on these people and panic buyers as being the real reason you can't find ammo at most stores. IMO, unless there's real proof, this government buying all the ammo rumor is just wishful conjecture from folks who love to believe in conspiracies. __________________ "And remember, Abraham Lincoln didn't die in vain, he died in Washington D.C." - Firesign Theatre

February 26, 2013, 10:53 AM	#4
YARDDOG(1) Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: GATOR COUNTRY HA HA HA! Posts: 721	Renolds wrap ; ) Y/D __________________ There's a GATOR in the bushes & She's Callin my name >Molly Hatchett<

February 26, 2013, 11:41 AM	#11
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	I hear this rumor all day long. The only source I get from people propagating it is "I heard" or "some blog." The government buys ammunition because they carry guns and they need to practice. I've supervised training exercises in which one 12-person office can go through 6000-8000 rounds in two days. It adds up, and 10 million rounds isn't much when you consider the payroll for some agencies. We've got our pundits who love to stir up unease and conspiracy, and they yell "the .gov is buying up X rounds of ammunition! That's ten rounds for every puppy in the United States!" Neither of those statements is mathematically untrue, but that doesn't automatically mean they're related. zxcvbob is correct on the prioritization of contracts, and zincwarrior's link is well worth reading. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

February 26, 2013, 10:57 AM	#5
skimbell Member Join Date: February 21, 2013 Location: NW Illinois Posts: 35	The government is buying a ton of ammo. As far as I can tell DHS is the primary culprit but I've read reports that the IRS, BTAF and a few other agencies have their hands in it also. I wasn't too concerned because everthing that I see claims that all of the ammo is .40. I don't shoot 40 so... Anyway, I reads that this year the gov has purchased/ordered more than two b(with a B) illion rounds and has them stored all over the place in large unmarked containers. Reporters have asked about these purchases and simply been told that it's not unusual and the ammo is needed for qualifying practice (uh-huh). I Binged "government ammunition purchases" and got 647,000 hits so it probably isn't an unfounded concern. Here's one link: http://www.naturalnews.com/035649_DH...estic_war.html

February 26, 2013, 10:59 AM	#6
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	Most rumors like that usually have some basis in fact, but the real reason is often misinterpreted. Just a guess, but after 10 years of fighting in Iraq and Afghnistan I wouldn't be surprised if our military isn't trying to replinish stockpiles of ammo, so I could understand large purchases. If they were trying to prevent sales of ammo to civilians there are more effective ways to go about it. I am a volunteer non-LEO with our local Sheriff's dept. All of our local LE depts. have had to cut back on training because even they are having trouble locating enough ammo.

February 26, 2013, 11:11 AM	#10
UtopiaTexasG19 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Location: S.E. Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 743	Some of the rumors are being fueled by the type of government agencies that are supposedly buying the ammunition.

February 26, 2013, 11:49 AM	#12
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"My friends have heard this that live around the country." Tinfoil mouth-breathing conspiracy theories, and theorists making wild-assed guesses and spreading half-baked rumors, know no geographic boundaries. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 26, 2013, 12:04 PM	#13
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	I think the government can cause fluctuations in availability. I think we saw one in 7.62x39 some while ago when it was decided the Iraqis would carry AKs. Let's face it, we buy more guns and Uncle Sam buys more ammo. The only pistol CF I see day in and day out is .40 S&W. Makes me wonder if that was caused by the switch back to 9mm, which was cheap and plentiful. Sure glad I hanged onto the 4006. If I didn't reload, I'd already be out of 9mm. I still can't connect with jacketed bullets. Plated would be fine, but I don't see them either.

February 26, 2013, 12:21 PM	#15
Fishing_Cabin Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2010 Posts: 720	Next thing you know, someone will want law enforcement to use less ammo, but practice more.... That always confuses me. Ammo doesn't come out of thin air, except for maybe the military getting an air drop

February 26, 2013, 01:36 PM	#17
SPEMack618 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Location: Central Georgia Posts: 1,863	Most of my ammo is stored in "large, unmarked containers"...Rubbermaid doesn't sale labels. __________________ NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!"

February 26, 2013, 01:43 PM	#18
EMH Member Join Date: January 30, 2013 Posts: 62	www.fedbid.com had an order posted from the DHS

February 26, 2013, 01:46 PM	#19
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	Change of government? When did all of these Federal agencies get their own cop shops? Not that far back, when an IRS revenue agent needed a gun, they'd call the Marshalls service who would provide armed personnel. I guess no empire is complete without a private army. I notice even the EPA has agents packing.

February 26, 2013, 01:47 PM	#20
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Maybe we should stick a conspiracy thread since we can't seem to make it go away. Some really simple math... DHS ordered a MAXIMUM (non-guaranteed) 450 million rounds OVER A 5 YEAR contract. DHS has 135,000 weapons carrying officers. 450,000,000 divided by 5 years is 90,000,000 per year. 90,000,000 per year divided by 135,000 officers is 665 rounds per officer per year.... yeah... 55 rounds a month for each guy..MAXIMUM.. 55 rounds a month! Holy smokes! __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 26, 2013, 02:26 PM	#24
dajowi Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 1,196	"Tinfoilhattery." I love it!

February 26, 2013, 02:43 PM	#25
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	People seem to think there are a few hundred FBI agents and ten or twelve ATFE agents. There are quite a few more. We have somewhere close to a million combat personnel in the military. I wouldn't be surprised if all the National LEO/DOS/DHS agencies add up to the same. Even department of Education now has armed agents. I don't think there is any way to figure that out though. They use a lot of ammunition. I bet they end up buying about 150 rounds per officer per year and that most of that goes to a small number of the armed officers who actually train.