The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 13, 2009, 06:56 PM   #51
old bear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2009
Location: Not close enough to the beach
Posts: 1,477
Firearms, especially handguns are the only tools; I can think of whose main purpose is to kill or injure a living creature. Yet sadly all to often firearm owners treat them as one more adult toy, and I for one am sick and tired of this kind of behavior.

If you have to flame away if you must, but remember the term “gun nut” is no longer a good-natured descriptor but a far from flattering term with the emphasis on nut. We as responsible firearm enthusiasts need to be aware of this and conduct ourselves accordingly
old bear is offline  
Old December 13, 2009, 07:32 PM   #52
jammin1237
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2008
Location: Wisonsin
Posts: 269
i am all for mandatory hunting safety courses before you can hunt, even for adults... there is no reason why you should not require any adult or minor to pass a basic test in order be able to use or own firearms(maybe a NRA test and certification card or something attached to your drivers license)... this means you would at least be able to read and write, and have gone through minimal training of safety/operation... and that is coming from me, one of the bigger anti-gov anti-big-brother people you will ever find...

promote personal responsibility so the rest of us wont suffer from loss of freedom....


cheers
jammin1237 is offline  
Old December 13, 2009, 08:38 PM   #53
mavracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: midwest
Posts: 4,209
OK how about we forget the test,just have a 10-15min safety video and then we hold people responsible for negligent discharges.
__________________
rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Quote:
originally posted my Mike Irwin
My handguns are are for one purpose only, though...
The starter gun on the "Fat man's mad dash tactical retreat."
mavracer is offline  
Old December 13, 2009, 08:48 PM   #54
Tucker 1371
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Location: East TN
Posts: 2,649
Quote:
OK how about we forget the test,just have a 10-15min safety video and then we hold people responsible for negligent discharges.
Sounds good, make sure at the end of the video you let them know that. It still should come from within the gun industry and not from the Federal or State governments.
__________________
Sgt. of Marines, 5th Award Expert Rifle, 237/250
Expert Pistol, 382/400. D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!!
If you start a thread, be active in it. Don't leave us hanging.
OEF 2011 Sangin, Afg. Molon Labe
Tucker 1371 is offline  
Old December 13, 2009, 08:57 PM   #55
Tommy Vercetti
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 26, 2004
Location: Fairhope, Alabama
Posts: 1,119
Quote:
Every day some moron driving a car tries to kill me.
maybe it's not them, maybe it's you
__________________
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." Sinclair Lewis, (It Can't Happen Here, 1935)
"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero
Tommy Vercetti is offline  
Old December 13, 2009, 09:12 PM   #56
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,282
Is it not possible that a gun shop owner who refuses to sell a gun to someone based on appearances might find themselves in the same trouble a restaurant who refuses to serve based on appearances?

I am asking,what does someone have to look like to be denied?

Sure,I can look and say"Man,I do not like the idea of that guy buying that AK-47" but there are problems with trying to profile people.

You know,folks cut themselves horribly trying to slice Bagels.I think,before they can buy a bagel,or a knife,they must be able to demonstrate proficiency at bagel slicing.Because that is my agenda,and ,by golly,we ought to do things my way.
And do not attack me!!!
HiBC is offline  
Old December 13, 2009, 09:16 PM   #57
DanimalFL
Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Posts: 63
Have you read all the posts were people say people who run gun stores are rude or condesending this is exactly were it comes from it starts like this and evolves into anybody who is not a LEO or some sort of expert is not qualified
to own a firearm and the gun store doesnot make enough money and goes under
DanimalFL is offline  
Old December 13, 2009, 09:40 PM   #58
Tucker 1371
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Location: East TN
Posts: 2,649
Quote:
I am asking,what does someone have to look like to be denied?
I was thinking more along the lines of words and actions rather than appearances. If someone asks to see a gun off the rack and then muzzle sweeps everyone in the store that would be a red flag to me. At that point I would ask them to either watch a video on gun safety as was suggested earlier or not be allowed to purchase a firearm.

Quote:
Have you read all the posts were people say people who run gun stores are rude or condesending this is exactly were it comes from it starts like this and evolves into anybody who is not a LEO or some sort of expert is not qualified
to own a firearm and the gun store doesnot make enough money and goes under
... Punctuation is our friend
__________________
Sgt. of Marines, 5th Award Expert Rifle, 237/250
Expert Pistol, 382/400. D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!!
If you start a thread, be active in it. Don't leave us hanging.
OEF 2011 Sangin, Afg. Molon Labe
Tucker 1371 is offline  
Old December 13, 2009, 09:50 PM   #59
HuntAndFish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2006
Location: Kansas City, MO.
Posts: 580
Okay, this is a little OT but it is related. Why is it that the political Left thinks teaching our kids about sex will not cause them to have sexual relations, but teaching them gun safety will make them into little murderers?

My answer is to teach a mandatory gun safety class in high school. Make it a semester long for one of the 4 years and make them shoot some guns and learn safe gun behavior.

Yeah, not going to happen.
__________________
NRA Benefactor
MSSA Life Member

Last edited by HuntAndFish; December 13, 2009 at 09:59 PM.
HuntAndFish is offline  
Old December 13, 2009, 11:20 PM   #60
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
Quote:
i am all for mandatory hunting safety courses (...) there is no reason why you should not require any adult or minor to pass a basic test in order be able to use or own firearms (...) this means you would at least be able to read and write, and have gone through minimal training of safety/operation
Tread very carefully. We've had that sort of setup before.

Tell me (without Google) how quickly you can answer these questions:

Quote:
If the president does not wish to sign a bill, how many days is he allowed in which to return it to Congress for reconsideration?
Quote:
In what year did the Congress gain the right to prohibit the migration of persons to the states?
Quote:
The power of granting patents, that is, of securing to inventors the exclusive right to their discoveries, is given to Congress for the purpose of ____________
Correct answers to all of those questions were once required before one could vote.

In that spirit, here's the form that such a quiz would become if it were applied to buying guns. All answers must be correct, or no guns for you.

1) If the second half of a cartridge's name specifies case length, what is the case length of a .30-06?

2) Why are .357 and .38 Special cartridges compatible if they are different calibers?

3) Susan was convicted of possession of .58 ounces of marijuana and an unregistered NFA weapon in North Dakota. How long must she serve before she is eligible for parole?

4) Specify point blank range for the .25 Ackley Krag loading.

Sure, it would start out simple. Then, as all regulations do, it would get more and more stringent until we reached a point where the tests were similar to the questions above.

And wouldn't that be convenient? After all, it's not a ban on guns at all, is it? It's just a basic test to ensure everyone's safety.

No thanks.

Quote:
OK how about we forget the test,just have a 10-15min safety video and then we hold people responsible for negligent discharges.
I've been to a range that has that. It's death for business because experienced shooters find it inconvenient and patronizing. The manager even acknowledged this after we'd just had a lengthy talk about firearms history. I still had to sit through it; it was policy.

Several other people were there, and two were obviously bored to tears. They watched the same video, then proceeded to violate three range rules and two cardinal gun safety rules. The video didn't stop them from behaving like ignoramii and placing others in danger.

What stopped them was having the range master put them out on their (metaphorical) butts.

Do we need to be vigilant and police our own? Yes. Do we need impediments like tests, pamphlets and videos? No. Those things, while seemingly innocent, will be an annoyance to good shooters and will be ignored by irresponsible ones.

I fully understand the OP's concerns, and I empathize. I've had the "you have failed to convince me that you have the proper mindset to handle firearms responsibly" conversation more times than I can count.

But it goes with the territory.

Quote:
My answer is to teach a mandatory gun safety class in high school.
In 1996, I made that suggestion at a dinner party of academics that included several members of the state board of education. It was like something out of Borat. The room went dead silent for about five seconds, then people started lambasting me. One person called me a sociopath for suggesting such a thing. Funny thing? He was a professor at GSU. Small world
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe

Last edited by Tom Servo; December 13, 2009 at 11:25 PM. Reason: Made questions trickier
Tom Servo is offline  
Old December 14, 2009, 05:29 AM   #61
Ditto_95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2007
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 154
"Go ahead and flame me."



"Punctuation is our friend"


Perhaps you should consider a career in politics. That way you can dictate how everyone should behave.
__________________
Finem Respice Consider the end
Principils Obsta Resist the beginings
Ditto_95 is offline  
Old December 14, 2009, 06:55 AM   #62
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,715
Quote:
But don't you think that there should at least be a 10 question test at the end of a background check form to determine whether or not someone possesses the common sense and basic knowledge (and I mean VERY basic) every gun owner should have?
No. Why do you think such tests will keep people from doing idiotic things?

Quote:
Something along the lines of:
The Four Rules
Be able to explain why you can't just put any bullet in any gun
How to use the sights
How to properly load a gun
How to maintain a gun
How to deal with malfunctions
You can't come up with 10 yourself?

Quote:
If I ever were to open a gun store I would not sell a gun to anyone who could not satisfactorily answer every question on this test.
And you would have one of those gun stores that goes out of business.

With that said, there are several stores from which I have purchased guns that had a wavier to be signed that basically said that I have read and understand various things such as guns being dangerous, gun safety, etc. It was a wavier, not a test.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old December 14, 2009, 09:09 AM   #63
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 6,141
Bartenders have the same sort of situation, do they not?
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old December 14, 2009, 10:22 AM   #64
Glenn E. Meyer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
This is going nowhere and folks are starting to violate OUR RULES!

Interesting issue isn't it. The points are made. PMs sent.

Thus.

Closed before you commit an electronic ND.

GEM
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10317 seconds with 8 queries