It looks like I messed up

rebs · July 20, 2013, 07:24 AM

I loaded 50 rounds of 38 spl with 158 gr LSWC with 5.0 of Unique, is that too hot for a J frame 38 spl ? Can I safely shoot these in my 357 mag ?

I also loaded 50 rounds of 357 mag with 158 gr LSWC and loaded 13.5 of 2400 powder, this load is good.

SL1 · July 20, 2013, 07:49 AM

1. 5.0 grains of Unique behind a 158 grain lead bullet in a .38 Special case is in the +P range for the .38 Special according to Speer's #14 Manual. So, you should be able to shoot them safely in any gun that is OK with +P .38 Special ammo or .357 Magnum ammo.

2. 13.5 grains of 2400 behind a 158 grain lead bullet in a .357 Magnum case is definitely in the .357 Magnum pressure range. The real question is whether the lead is soft, as in swaged bullets from Speer, Hornady and othes, or if it is harder lead in cast bullets. If it is soft swaged bullets, then they are likely to cause substantial leading at that power level. If they are cast lead, then they might still cause leading, but might not.

3. The real question is why you needed to ask this question about ammo that you have aleady loaded. Most any manual would have answered the question for you. Do you have manual(s)? If not, you really need to read one BEFORE you load cartridges.

SL1

NoSecondBest · July 20, 2013, 08:13 AM

SL1 said if perfectly.
I'll add that if you're getting all your loading info off the internet, you need to stop and get some loading manuals. Asking your buddies what they use isn't the best practice. Get a good loading manual (or several) and start there. The Lyman 49th edition is a good one to start with.

I see you have another post on here asking others what you should use for a load. GET A LOADING MANUAL AND QUIT TRYING TO GET "GOOD" FREE ADVICE. YOU'LL GET AS MUCH BAD ADVICE AND GOOD AND YOU WON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!

JerryM · July 20, 2013, 08:13 AM

You really need a good manual or two. Don't start with hot loads, and then worry as to whether they are too hot or not, but start with reloading manual starting loads and work up.

Please do some research as to reloading principles and procedures before you continue.

Jerry

Swampman1 · July 20, 2013, 08:17 AM

Don't mean to sound harsh here, but those are questions you should have asked BEFORE reloading...not after. As others stated, get a couple a manuals. Valuable info in there.

243winxb · July 20, 2013, 08:53 AM

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Quote:

I loaded 50 rounds of 38 spl with 158 gr LSWC with 5.0 of Unique, is that too hot for a J frame 38 spl ?

Components can make a difference, but for my 2 J frames, i load 5.2 grs of Unique with home cast 158 gr (about 162 as cast) bullets.

rebs · July 20, 2013, 09:14 AM

The reason I asked this question is because I found a discrepancy in load data between two manuals. I loaded according to Lyman and then seen in speer it is over max. According to Lyman 5.0 gr of unique is ok in 38 spl and according to Speer 4.7 is max. My J frame model 37 is not +P rated.
The bullets are Penn hard cast.
How the heck does a guy know what manual to believe ?
I wouldn't just go ahead and use a load on the internet.

243winxb · July 20, 2013, 09:52 AM

Speer data may use soft swaged lead bullets. Cast is harder & less of a leading problem when more pressure/powder is used. As always, use a starting load and work up.

mxsailor803 · July 20, 2013, 10:13 AM

Personally, IF you have 2 manuals that has different loading datas, steer the safest and go with the lower charge. Its better to be safe.

mehavey · July 20, 2013, 12:21 PM

Lyman 49th/CastBullet 4th/38Special:

158gr LSWC #358665 / OAL: 1.445"
Unique Max: 4.7gr using LinoType (49th)
Unique Max: 4.5gr using #2 Alloy (4th)

What edition did you use?

rebs · July 20, 2013, 12:44 PM

I would have to go down and check, I'll let you know

Lost Sheep · July 20, 2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebs in post #7

The reason I asked this question is because I found a discrepancy in load data between two manuals. (edited for brevity)
How the heck does a guy know what manual to believe ?

Believe both. SAAMI provides specifications, not results. The lab tested and provided their results - which can vary (as you have seen).

Aside from powder charge and bullet weight, look also at the brass used, primer used (both can make differences), the bullet (hardness as well as weight) and the firearm used by the labs when they produced their data. Also, when the data was produced (pressure measuring equipment has improved over the years and fear of litigation may influence publishers, too).

Then, realize that your particular gun will produce different pressures than ANY OTHER GUN. If your chambers are tight, forcing cone tight and barrel rough, you will very likely get higher pressures than other guns of exactly the same model, much less the lab's test gun.

This is why it is prudent to load some rounds below the lowest maximum load you find (and above the highest minimum load, for that matter) in responsible publications. Then test those rounds, looking for odd performance (signs of high pressure, mostly). Then adjust your powder charge and test a few rounds again. In effect, verifying the loading manuals' labwork, customizing your loading to your gun.

Fortunately, most guns are (quality controlled) similar enough that loaders can be less exacting than that without disaster (or even inconvenience). Cut corners where you deem safe. When in doubt, ask. If still in doubt, use your bullet puller.

Good luck. Thanks for asking our advice.

Lost Sheep

July 20, 2013, 08:13 AM	#4
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	You really need a good manual or two. Don't start with hot loads, and then worry as to whether they are too hot or not, but start with reloading manual starting loads and work up. Please do some research as to reloading principles and procedures before you continue. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

July 20, 2013, 07:24 AM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	It looks like I messed up I loaded 50 rounds of 38 spl with 158 gr LSWC with 5.0 of Unique, is that too hot for a J frame 38 spl ? Can I safely shoot these in my 357 mag ? I also loaded 50 rounds of 357 mag with 158 gr LSWC and loaded 13.5 of 2400 powder, this load is good.

July 20, 2013, 07:49 AM	#2
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	1. 5.0 grains of Unique behind a 158 grain lead bullet in a .38 Special case is in the +P range for the .38 Special according to Speer's #14 Manual. So, you should be able to shoot them safely in any gun that is OK with +P .38 Special ammo or .357 Magnum ammo. 2. 13.5 grains of 2400 behind a 158 grain lead bullet in a .357 Magnum case is definitely in the .357 Magnum pressure range. The real question is whether the lead is soft, as in swaged bullets from Speer, Hornady and othes, or if it is harder lead in cast bullets. If it is soft swaged bullets, then they are likely to cause substantial leading at that power level. If they are cast lead, then they might still cause leading, but might not. 3. The real question is why you needed to ask this question about ammo that you have aleady loaded. Most any manual would have answered the question for you. Do you have manual(s)? If not, you really need to read one BEFORE you load cartridges. SL1

July 20, 2013, 08:13 AM	#3
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	SL1 said if perfectly. I'll add that if you're getting all your loading info off the internet, you need to stop and get some loading manuals. Asking your buddies what they use isn't the best practice. Get a good loading manual (or several) and start there. The Lyman 49th edition is a good one to start with. I see you have another post on here asking others what you should use for a load. GET A LOADING MANUAL AND QUIT TRYING TO GET "GOOD" FREE ADVICE. YOU'LL GET AS MUCH BAD ADVICE AND GOOD AND YOU WON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!

July 20, 2013, 08:17 AM	#5
Swampman1 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 432	Don't mean to sound harsh here, but those are questions you should have asked BEFORE reloading...not after. As others stated, get a couple a manuals. Valuable info in there.

July 20, 2013, 09:14 AM	#7
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	The reason I asked this question is because I found a discrepancy in load data between two manuals. I loaded according to Lyman and then seen in speer it is over max. According to Lyman 5.0 gr of unique is ok in 38 spl and according to Speer 4.7 is max. My J frame model 37 is not +P rated. The bullets are Penn hard cast. How the heck does a guy know what manual to believe ? I wouldn't just go ahead and use a load on the internet.

July 20, 2013, 09:52 AM	#8
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Speer data may use soft swaged lead bullets. Cast is harder & less of a leading problem when more pressure/powder is used. As always, use a starting load and work up.

July 20, 2013, 10:13 AM	#9
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	Personally, IF you have 2 manuals that has different loading datas, steer the safest and go with the lower charge. Its better to be safe.

July 20, 2013, 12:21 PM	#10
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	Lyman 49th/CastBullet 4th/38Special: 158gr LSWC #358665 / OAL: 1.445" Unique Max: 4.7gr using LinoType (49th) Unique Max: 4.5gr using #2 Alloy (4th) What edition did you use?

July 20, 2013, 12:44 PM	#11
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I would have to go down and check, I'll let you know